Carrying a gun you like.

[Bazoo]

Interesting discussion thus far.

No reason to double tap as I believe 44 special, loaded to slightly above 45 automatic levels will bring down an attacker with 1 shot. So my six shooter makes me good for up to six badguys provided I have good shot placement.

As far as a mob of people. No gun is going to save you if after the first shot they don’t start backing up.

My point in carrying a gun I like, is that I don’t shoot or practice with guns I don’t like. So it’s better to carry a gun with which I’m familiar and proficient than a gun with which I never use and have to remember how to function before I can use it.

I don’t practice a lot for self defense. I practice my draw, and single hit on target, then transition to another target. Sometimes 3 targets. And I practice smooth reload. I don’t practice running or diving from cover or some such. This old boy can’t run very far or fast. I practice shooting single handed and off handed.

 

[UncleEd]

Take a two day defensive shooting course; The instructors will run the class though a number of different drills. The purpose is not to emulate possible real world scenarios, but to help develop skills for what may happen, and there are an almost infinite variations.

Again, those shooting schools are stressing "almost infinite"
possibilities over probabilities.

Or as may happen one day, "Uh oh, I didn't expect the bad
guy to drop a brick on my head from a second story window.
Better take Lesson 324 on all possible ambush scenarios."

 

[Kleanbore]

Then it should have been a simple matter for you to have explained why.

I should have thought it self evident.

You just got through telling us that "realistic" training would prove single action revolvers inadequate for personal defense.

No. Ohers hare, and unless you are the top Mr. Miculek, they are probably rigth. One may employ one successfully, but the odds are poor.

Now you are claiming that realism is not really the purpose of training anyway,

Skills development is the purpose of realistic training

but rather that unrealistic training is necessary to develop skills for dealing with reality.

You are confused.

but rather that unrealistic training is necessary to develop skills for dealing with reality.

And that, apparently, is why single action revolvers are unrealistic choices.

No.

I remain unconvinced.

Let's try this. Imagine yourself in a parking lot. Two assailants jump out from behind something and come at you from opposite directions from, say, 4 meters away, moving at perhaps five meters per second. You have to move, draw, ands stop then before they do you in. That is realistic.

Now, they are not water bottles; hitting them will not knock them down. To effect timely physical stops, the defender's' bullets must destroy internal body parts that are invisible, small, and moving around very rapidly in six axes. A reasonable chance of hitting them requires several body hits very very quickly.

Does that help?

 

[Sarge7402]

Try your gun in realistic defensive training drills and then decide.

Those drills tend to differ with where one lives. DC, multiple armed car jackers! Some places being able to reload rapidly is a must where other areas (like rural areas) it might not be.

 

[Kleanbore]

No reason to double tap as I believe 44 special, loaded to slightly above 45 automatic levels will bring down an attacker with 1 shot.

If it just happens to enter at exacty the right place at the right angle, it just might. Otherwise, you are dreaming. Forget screen fiction.

 

[trackskippy]

This is really very simple, but some seem to try hard to miss the whole point. You train/practice for those hard things you hope youll never get, and not for what you can easily do in how you normally practice.

You also have to be realistic about what it is youre carrying is really capable of, and what your "realistic" skills with it are, which is something I get the impression, many, if not most, overinflate their abilities and understanding of things.

Whatever it is you choose to use, you still need to be of the mindset and understanding, that there is nothing "defensive" about self defense, that you will have to shoot them to the ground, and continue to do so until that occurs, and that will take exactly whatever it is it takes, not what you "think" it will take. Hopefully, you have brought the skills and enough onboard ammo along to actually get that done.

Ive said this a lot in the past, and Ill say it again now, Im all for anyone who wants to carry a gun to be able to do so, but, from what Ive seen and heard in threads like this, Im about half scared to death, knowing there are a lot of people out there carrying a gun, with basically no real skills what so ever, and have to wonder, whos the biggest threat? The bad guys, or the good guys who think just because they have a gun, they are armed and prepared and might start shooting.

 

[UncleEd]

.
Imagine yourself in a parking lot. Two assailants jump out from behind something and come at you from opposite directions from, say, 4 meters away, moving at perhaps five meters per second. You have to move, draw, ands stop then before they do you in. That is realistic.

In less than a second you move, draw and fire?

It's realistic that the two baddies would have you. Give yourself
half a chance, make it that they are each 15 meters away.

 

[Kleanbore]

In less than a second you move, draw and fire?

It's realistic that the two baddies would have you. Give yourself
half a chance, make it that they are each 15 meters away.

Thanks. I had in mind moving and drawing in time to start shooting at perhaps four meters.

That and the subsequent hits are hard enough with a semi-auto.

 

[StrykerByte.45]

The mentality of a lot of people on this forum. It reminds me of a saying that goes in my family line. " Do you want people to say this is where he ran, or this is where he died Fighting"
Sure crime has gotten worse, semi autos, high capacity, switchys, are all scary. And I see that a lot of people here have unrealistic thoughts about how they want to defend themselves. Especially those who have undergone training. Seems to me that the training has brainwashed them into thinking they should fight which that's up to them to decide it's their own life.
Someone used an example of four guys hopping out of a car to carjack you. That's realistic. But choosing to fight four guys with semi-automatic guns. Probably rifles over your car is ridiculous. In fact, killing even one person with a knife for trying to take my car is ridiculous. Don't we have insurance? In fact, I don't see any possessions worth taking a life for. I also see examples of defenders putting themselves in dark alleys or bad streets. Why would anyone do that intentionally? Just because you took some training courses, you feel like you're trained enough to walk into the worst parts of town and act like a badass? Criminals. Don't just go for anybody. You would have to tempt them in some sort of way. There's a lot of good examples of how people would need to defend themselves, but in all those examples, there are ways of preventing of putting yourself in those situations in the first place.
Now when I go about my days I take care to not put myself in danger to not tempt others to stay away from bad neighborhoods and don't put myself in tight spots where someone could take advantage to me. That is the best defense. The is the gun is extra. That's why I don't feel like I need a high capacity of rounds. And that's why I say. If you know you're going to put yourself at risk of some way or another, then you should carry a high capacity firearm. But that still doesn't mean you should fight four guys with semi-automatic handguns. Let them take your car, not your life. It's not worth it.

 

[.38 Special]

Let's try this. Imagine yourself in a parking lot. Two assailants jump out from behind something and come at you from opposite directions from, say, 4 meters away, moving at perhaps five meters per second. You have to move, draw, ands stop then before they do you in. That is realistic.

Seriously? Reacting, drawing, and making multiple hits on two moving targets 180 degrees apart in less than a second is realistic?

Put up a video of you doing it. Until then I'm going back to ignoring you.

 

[Bazoo]

In less than a second you move, draw and fire?

It's realistic that the two baddies would have you. Give yourself
half a chance, make it that they are each 15 meters away.

More realistic for me is they get me and I have to draw and fire while they are beating me on the ground.

Folks stressing being realistic. Realistically, I’m not a gunfighter, Im not a fighter. I’m an overweight carpenter with asthma and a bad knee. So realistically I’m agoners for anything but the most simple self defense scenario. In that simple scenario, a single action isn’t a hinderance.

 

[Kleanbore]

Seriously? Reacting, drawing, and making multiple hits on two moving targets 180 degrees apart in less than a second is realistic?

No. Did you read Post #83?

 

[.38 Special]

Yes. It's gibberish.

 

[The Night Rider]

But I don’t like “training”, so I don’t do it.

And this is where I decided any attempt at a response would be useless

 

[Ru4real]

Imagine an enraged stranger is at 25 yards distance, and begins running at you with a hammer/machete/axe/katana/tomahawk/rock/etc I tending to kill you.

First and only single shot to head at 2 feet and then step to the side.

Imagine an assailant shooting at you with a semi at 25 yards. Again, a single shot to the head. In both scenarios, a single action revolver would be a fine choice.

Let's try this. Imagine yourself in a parking lot. Two assailants jump out from behind something and come at you from opposite directions from, say, 4 meters away, moving at perhaps five meters per second. You have to move, draw, ands stop then before they do you in. That is realistic.

LOL, definitely not realistic because it’s definitely not probable. But I have no doubt it’s a scenario people train for. When I shot IDPA, we shot for equally unrealistic scenarios. Playing those games, I chose semi autos.

In real life I’m comfortable and confident with every gun I own.

 

[Old Hobo]

In a carjacking situation where you are still behind the wheel of your running car, if possible, use your vehicle as the first line of defense. Interrupt their plan of aggression. This can buy you time to bring your personal firearm into play -- your choice, your favorite, what you have trained with. Caught off-guard, fewer felons may now be in a position to attack, thus reducing your self-defense work-load / ammunition needed to get away from the attack. Use situational awareness first-up to attempt to never get pinned-in. This is life or death, so you can't be worried about the condition of your vehicle.

 

[Kleanbore]

Seems to me that the training has brainwashed them into thinking they should fight which that's up to them to decide it's their own life.

I haven't noted that, but there are all kinds of "experts" offering training thse days. The good ones do not take that tack.

In fact, killing even one person with a knife for trying to take my car is ridiculous.

That is true. The objective should be to avid being killed or seriously injured.

In fact, I don't see any possessions worth taking a life for.

Right. And that's the law almost eveerhere.

Now when I go about my days I take care to not put myself in danger to not tempt others to stay away from bad neighborhoods and don't put myself in tight spots where someone could take advantage to me. That is the best defense.

Yes indeed!

That's why I don't feel like I need a high capacity of rounds...And that's why I say. If you know you're going to put yourself at risk of some way or another, then you should carry a high capacity firearm.

Unfortunately, what will be needed in a defensive encounter is not at all a function of what the likelihood of occurrence was deemed to be before the event.

 

[Kleanbore]

Yes. It's gibberish.

Care to expand on why you think so?

 

[The Night Rider]

To directly answer the OP's question I don't really have any emotional attachment to any gun I own. I mean, I like the guns I carry, I guess but they're Glocks. They're ubiquitous and easily replaceable.

I've been involved in four shooting incidents. In none of them did the "bad guy" start shooting at me from 25 yards away. TBH I couldn't say that I was the specific target in any of them. I was more like potential collateral damage that was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I've been involved in numerous non-firearm defensive encounters in the course of my "career" and, again, none of them started with the 'bad guy" 25 yards or even feet away.

The last one started from about 5 feet out. A tweaker pulled out a knife on me and I said "That's a cool looking knife Bro, can I check it out?" He handed it to me.

 

[Kleanbore]

First and only single shot to head at 2 feet and then step to the side.

If someone has reached a distance of two feet from a defender and is moving fast, hitting the head would be extremely difficult. No one would recommend trying that.

LOL, definitely not realistic

Let's see--such crimes often happen in parking lots; they often include two perps; they usually ambush from cover, and they willbe moving fast at close range. what is not "realistic" about it?

and definitely not probable.

Right.. Self defense encounters are infrequent.

ut I have no doubt it’s a scenario people train for.

People train in drills to give them necessary skills. The drills are not intended to prepare people for particular scenarios.

 

[wcwhitey]

Carry what you like and love. Carry it, practice with it until it becomes second nature. A EDC should be part of the bigger picture not just a crutch to save your life. I have said this before and will say it again if you find yourself having to need a gun something went wrong with your security plan. But for sake of argument all steps and precautions were in place, instincts followed and something happens. Having a gun that is second nature is a good thing. It will help a huge amount if you love it, like to shoot and practice with it getting and know everything about its shortcomings. Only makes sense. Now if you are intentionally carrying something as a fashion statement and to be different cause you “love” to look cool or different I think a huge point is being missed.

 

[WrongHanded]

First and only single shot to head at 2 feet and then step to the side.

Imagine an assailant shooting at you with a semi at 25 yards. Again, a single shot to the head. In both scenarios, a single action revolver would be a fine choice.

You must be a far better shot than I am, with far faster reflexes, and so cool under pressure that you make Absolute Zero look warm.

 

[The Night Rider]

If someone has reached a distance of two feet from a defender and is moving fast, hitting the head would be extremely difficult. No one would recommend trying that.

True story Bro.

Let's see--such crimes often happen in parking lots; they often include two perps; they usually ambush from cover, and they willbe moving fast at close range. what is not "realistic" about it?

The part where they start coming at you from 25 yards away but you aren't the one who posited that.

 

[WrongHanded]

The part where they start coming at you from 25 yards away but you aren't the one who posited that.

The only reason I suggest 25 yards was because if being charged from 7 yards or less, I doubt many people in the world would clear leather, and get off more than one aimed shot with a single action revolver. I was creating a scenario with enough space and time to at least allow for an attempted follow up shot. Because I'm generous like that.

 

[trackskippy]

The only reason I suggest 25 yards was because if being charged from 7 yards or less, I doubt many people in the world would clear leather, and get off more than one aimed shot with a single action revolver. I was creating a scenario with enough space and time to at least allow for an attempted follow up shot. Because I'm generous like that.

Thats not doing anyone any favors though, nor is it likely realistic.

On the other hand, it does sound like the current thinking of the American school system.

Youll learn and gain more trying to work within the 7-yard limit, than you will the 25.