BluesBear
member
Now that is just plain silly thinking. As well as bad advice.
CCW, how many rounds do you carry?
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XDKingslayer
member
Two full mags which gives me 18 rounds. I have no desire to carry any more full mags because it's heavy and uncomfortable and I'm not wearing full length clothes in the Florida sun just to conceal my ammo.
If I need more than 18 rounds things have crossed a line anyways. Either I can't hit squat, there are too many of them, or it's taking the cops so long to get there I'll probably be overtaken by the time they get there anyways.
If the problem isn't solved in the first magazine, it's time for me to use the second to cover my retreat as I'm not mounting a successful defence, for one reason or another, anyways.
My scuba instructor always used to remind us of that...
If I need more than 18 rounds things have crossed a line anyways. Either I can't hit squat, there are too many of them, or it's taking the cops so long to get there I'll probably be overtaken by the time they get there anyways.
If the problem isn't solved in the first magazine, it's time for me to use the second to cover my retreat as I'm not mounting a successful defence, for one reason or another, anyways.
My scuba instructor always used to remind us of that...
jacketch
Member
This news article is a prime example why I carry at least 9 in the gun + 16 in mags.
Viewers robbed after fireworks
Young men wielding baseball bats injure 10 near Boulevard Bridge
BY PAIGE AKIN MUDD
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER
Thursday, July 6, 2006
RELATED: Police Beat
An evening of fun, family and fireworks took a violent turn just after the last sparks above Dogwood Dell fell from the air.
Ten people who had watched the July Fourth fireworks display from the boulder-strewn banks below the Boulevard Bridge were robbed and beaten by a group of baseball bat-wielding young men. The assailants demanded the victims' wallets, purses, cell phones and other valuables, Richmond police said.
"It's the Fourth of July. We're celebrating our freedom, and then this happens," said one woman who witnessed the attacks and who would identify herself only as Karen, 30, of Richmond. "It was terrifying."
Richmond police confirmed that four of the 10 robbery victims were injured, but authorities would not comment on those injuries. One man, who identified himself as Stavros, said he had to be rescued by boat from a rock in the middle of the river after fleeing from a man with a bat.
The attacks began about 9:45 p.m. on the James River near Westover Hills Boulevard and Riverside Drive. There, about 30 people had gathered to watch the fireworks. When the show ended, they packed up to leave.
"Then we heard something fall very close to us. It was these huge stones, and we thought someone was throwing them off the bridge above us," Karen said. "We yelled, "Hey, there's people down here. Stop throwing things.'"
That's when a group of 15 to 20 young men in dark pants and white T-shirts came down to the river's edge. Some carried baseball bats, Karen said. Police confirmed that the men used baseball bats and 40-ounce beer bottles as weapons.
She and her friend hid until they had a chance to run to safety.
Stavros, 20, of Richmond used his backpack to shield himself from the rocks. When the group of young men emerged, he and several other people huddled for cover behind a large rock.
"Then I saw two people approaching us, and I saw something large and metallic in one guy's hand," he said, and he thought it was a knife or bat. "I told people we were going to have to jump in the river. As soon as I realized they weren't just robbing us, I jumped in the river and started swimming."
He later learned that people who stayed near shore were hit with aluminum bats.
Stavros clung to a rock in the middle of the river. Because he didn't know if the attackers had guns, he said, "I was really worried that I was going to get shot at because I was a pretty visible target."
After about 30 minutes, a Richmond fire department dive team responding to a 911 call from one of the victims rescued him by boat.
After the attacks, police and rescue workers searched for the men involved in the robberies and assaults. All the assailants were between 15 and 20 years old, according to police. No arrests have been made, Richmond police said yesterday, but authorities continue to investigate.
"It was the perfect place to watch the fireworks until this," Karen said. "It just doesn't make any sense."
Contact staff writer Paige Akin Mudd at [email protected] or (804) 649-6671.
This story can be found at: http://www.timesdispatch.com/servle...TD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149188965379
Viewers robbed after fireworks
Young men wielding baseball bats injure 10 near Boulevard Bridge
BY PAIGE AKIN MUDD
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER
Thursday, July 6, 2006
RELATED: Police Beat
An evening of fun, family and fireworks took a violent turn just after the last sparks above Dogwood Dell fell from the air.
Ten people who had watched the July Fourth fireworks display from the boulder-strewn banks below the Boulevard Bridge were robbed and beaten by a group of baseball bat-wielding young men. The assailants demanded the victims' wallets, purses, cell phones and other valuables, Richmond police said.
"It's the Fourth of July. We're celebrating our freedom, and then this happens," said one woman who witnessed the attacks and who would identify herself only as Karen, 30, of Richmond. "It was terrifying."
Richmond police confirmed that four of the 10 robbery victims were injured, but authorities would not comment on those injuries. One man, who identified himself as Stavros, said he had to be rescued by boat from a rock in the middle of the river after fleeing from a man with a bat.
The attacks began about 9:45 p.m. on the James River near Westover Hills Boulevard and Riverside Drive. There, about 30 people had gathered to watch the fireworks. When the show ended, they packed up to leave.
"Then we heard something fall very close to us. It was these huge stones, and we thought someone was throwing them off the bridge above us," Karen said. "We yelled, "Hey, there's people down here. Stop throwing things.'"
That's when a group of 15 to 20 young men in dark pants and white T-shirts came down to the river's edge. Some carried baseball bats, Karen said. Police confirmed that the men used baseball bats and 40-ounce beer bottles as weapons.
She and her friend hid until they had a chance to run to safety.
Stavros, 20, of Richmond used his backpack to shield himself from the rocks. When the group of young men emerged, he and several other people huddled for cover behind a large rock.
"Then I saw two people approaching us, and I saw something large and metallic in one guy's hand," he said, and he thought it was a knife or bat. "I told people we were going to have to jump in the river. As soon as I realized they weren't just robbing us, I jumped in the river and started swimming."
He later learned that people who stayed near shore were hit with aluminum bats.
Stavros clung to a rock in the middle of the river. Because he didn't know if the attackers had guns, he said, "I was really worried that I was going to get shot at because I was a pretty visible target."
After about 30 minutes, a Richmond fire department dive team responding to a 911 call from one of the victims rescued him by boat.
After the attacks, police and rescue workers searched for the men involved in the robberies and assaults. All the assailants were between 15 and 20 years old, according to police. No arrests have been made, Richmond police said yesterday, but authorities continue to investigate.
"It was the perfect place to watch the fireworks until this," Karen said. "It just doesn't make any sense."
Contact staff writer Paige Akin Mudd at [email protected] or (804) 649-6671.
This story can be found at: http://www.timesdispatch.com/servle...TD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149188965379
Bushwhacker
Member
If carrying my G19 = 46, my G23 = 40 only to fight my way back to my vehicle which has the AR15 in it; AR15 = 120
Just like american express, never leave home without it.....
Just like american express, never leave home without it.....
Frenchy
Member
It depends on if I'm at home, or my Summer retreat in Kandahar Province! Sounds like some of you are hanging around my Summer retreat!!! 
boomstik45
Member
I generally carry an extra mag for whatever happens to be my ccw, assuming it's a semi-auto. Right now it's a Springfield XD .40, so I have a 12 rd mag in the weapon and a 12 rd mag in the vehicle.
Current go-everywhere carry piece is a SW 442 Airweight, 5rd 38spl. So, 5 rounds loaded and typically 10 as backup.
Had a Browning BDM 9mm and carried, doing 15+1 plus one or two 15rd mags (depending). Am looking at a Kimber Pro CDP / Pro Shadow / Pro Carry for possible primary duty, and would likely do 7 rounds loaded plus two spare mags of 7.
Cousin Mike
Member
When carrying the Sig Pro: 12+1, with 2 reloads of 12rd. mags = 37 rounds of .357Sig or .40S&W.
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When I carry my 1911 - 7+1 in facory mag, 1 8rd. reload = 16 rounds of .45ACP. I'm lazy. Haven't bought more mags.
For the statistic pushers out there, I have been in a situation where reloading was required. We (store employees) had to defend a store I worked in from a gang of individuals. We only survived that fight because we had reloads available. Without going into too much detail, some gang members came around our store picking on customers and looking for trouble. When we forcefully removed them from the store, they came back at us with everything they had - which is probably more than someone who abides by the law is going to carry most times.
Remember, it's easy to dismiss gang members as untrained, unknowledgeable idiots who shoot sideways and use cheap pistols, but this can be dangerous. Some gang types love their Glocks and Sigs, and H&K's, and their favorite ".40-cali" JHP rounds. Some of these kids make more in a day than you make in a week, and can afford whatever they want. Remember, gangsters don't work at McDonalds. They sell drugs. These people find themselves in armed confrontations w/eachother on a regular basis. Some of them, to be frank, are very dangrous individuals who know exactly what they're doing in a gunfight. And they're not called 'gangs' because they roll around in groups of 2 or 3. I've seen gangfights (when I was in highschool) that had 15-20 kids on each side, fighting. If you encounter those kind of numbers, for whatever reason (which can be something as simple as getting lost and turning down the wrong street in some places) - 7+1 just ain't gonna do it.
If you live in a big city, your chances of finding yourself in this encounter are definitely not as minimal described. Sure, it's not common by any means. But my event didn't even make the local news - so if you think every encounter is documented somewhere, then you're more naive than I could tell you. Nobody gives a damn about a shootout in a bad part of town, and they happen everyday in cities across America. I'm sure more than .00000000001% of civilians in armed conflict have had to reload.
Everyone can't afford to live in the best parts of town. Some of us like the conveniences/lifestyle that come with living in a city, and don't want to move. Some of us don't fear thugs or gang members at all, but are simply prepared to deal with such people if we must. If you live in a large city, it is entirely possible that you could need every bit of 2-3 reloads, depending on who is attacking you, where and why. It takes a hell of a lot longer to get in a car, start it, put it in gear, and drive away than it does to reload a pistol and keep fighting. By the time you do all that, it's likely someone would be on your car shooting at you from point blank range. Not the ideal situation.
Whatever the situation, you might be surprised how fast you can unload an entire magazine while retreating when you have a car full of people shooting at you. If you live somewhere things like that never happen, then no need to carry 2 reloads and a BUG. But some of us live, have family, work, or have to drive in bad areas of town, or other undesireable places. Avoidance is not always an option for everyone everytime. If it was, there wouldn't be any violent crime.
Carry what you feel you need. No one here is silly, IMHO. Except maybe those who feel that others are silly simply for not sharing their opinion... or those who claim to know how 99.999999% of all civilian shootouts play out on the streets.
Sorry for the long-winded post. Nice thread here Interesting to hear about peoples experiences and points of view.
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When I carry my 1911 - 7+1 in facory mag, 1 8rd. reload = 16 rounds of .45ACP. I'm lazy. Haven't bought more mags.
For the statistic pushers out there, I have been in a situation where reloading was required. We (store employees) had to defend a store I worked in from a gang of individuals. We only survived that fight because we had reloads available. Without going into too much detail, some gang members came around our store picking on customers and looking for trouble. When we forcefully removed them from the store, they came back at us with everything they had - which is probably more than someone who abides by the law is going to carry most times.
Remember, it's easy to dismiss gang members as untrained, unknowledgeable idiots who shoot sideways and use cheap pistols, but this can be dangerous. Some gang types love their Glocks and Sigs, and H&K's, and their favorite ".40-cali" JHP rounds. Some of these kids make more in a day than you make in a week, and can afford whatever they want. Remember, gangsters don't work at McDonalds. They sell drugs. These people find themselves in armed confrontations w/eachother on a regular basis. Some of them, to be frank, are very dangrous individuals who know exactly what they're doing in a gunfight. And they're not called 'gangs' because they roll around in groups of 2 or 3. I've seen gangfights (when I was in highschool) that had 15-20 kids on each side, fighting. If you encounter those kind of numbers, for whatever reason (which can be something as simple as getting lost and turning down the wrong street in some places) - 7+1 just ain't gonna do it.
If you live in a big city, your chances of finding yourself in this encounter are definitely not as minimal described. Sure, it's not common by any means. But my event didn't even make the local news - so if you think every encounter is documented somewhere, then you're more naive than I could tell you. Nobody gives a damn about a shootout in a bad part of town, and they happen everyday in cities across America. I'm sure more than .00000000001% of civilians in armed conflict have had to reload.
Everyone can't afford to live in the best parts of town. Some of us like the conveniences/lifestyle that come with living in a city, and don't want to move. Some of us don't fear thugs or gang members at all, but are simply prepared to deal with such people if we must. If you live in a large city, it is entirely possible that you could need every bit of 2-3 reloads, depending on who is attacking you, where and why. It takes a hell of a lot longer to get in a car, start it, put it in gear, and drive away than it does to reload a pistol and keep fighting. By the time you do all that, it's likely someone would be on your car shooting at you from point blank range. Not the ideal situation.
Whatever the situation, you might be surprised how fast you can unload an entire magazine while retreating when you have a car full of people shooting at you. If you live somewhere things like that never happen, then no need to carry 2 reloads and a BUG. But some of us live, have family, work, or have to drive in bad areas of town, or other undesireable places. Avoidance is not always an option for everyone everytime. If it was, there wouldn't be any violent crime.
Carry what you feel you need. No one here is silly, IMHO. Except maybe those who feel that others are silly simply for not sharing their opinion... or those who claim to know how 99.999999% of all civilian shootouts play out on the streets.
Sorry for the long-winded post. Nice thread here
Interesting to hear about peoples experiences and points of view.boomstik45
Member
Cousin Mike, sounds like you need to invest in some assault rifles and take those to work. A good solid AR, Ak , etc and you have thirty rounds to a mag. If that won't do it you are in trouble.
1911_CQB
Member
with my 1911 rig, i have 8+1 in the gun, with two 8 rounders as backup. With the .40 I have 12 in the gun, two 12 rounders as backup. When I am feeling froggy, I have the XD, both spare mags, and an 6inch .357 IWB below the spare mags. I am a nut.
Cousin Mike
Member
LOL... I stopped working in places like that a long time ago. This wasn't a candle shop I worked in. Adults only after-hours places can be crazy places to earn a living. Definitely not worth the wages they pay.
Adults only after-hours places can be crazy places to earn a living. Definitely not worth the wages they pay.varoadking
Member
Just 5, in a S&W Model 37-2 DAO.
12 to 25 if i have one handgun sometimes my naa mini is clipped to my pocket too since that is last ditch i dont have reloads for it but i got my knife and the truck aint never far away and the mossberg persuader with 7+1 and a side saddle never leaves the gun rack on the cealing but that is still over kill cuz all fights should be one shot one kill the extra ammo is for the chance i might miss
one shot one kill
one shot one kill
Marshall
Member
With my J Frame I carry one extra 5 shot strip. With my semi-auto's I carry a full hi cap mag of 12 to 17 in the gun, no extra. I have, but seldom do.
rcellis
Member
Well, *I* carry 1700 cases of ammo in a semi-trailer which follows me and my security detail of 100 delta-force operators whereever I go.
You should see us in the McDonalds bathroom during lunch.
boomstik45
Member
One shot, one kill is for SNIPERS who are shooting at a target that usually has no clue where the shot is coming from or even that a shot is coming. And that would be with a decent rifle round, yes? This just doesn't apply to unexpected ( or even expected) gunfights at close range with a pistol, which is what CCW is more or less about. If you can guarantee a one shot kill or stop with a CNS hit everytime in a self defense situation then we should just sew your cape and costume for you right now.
rcellis, that is just too much
rcellis, that is just too much
sgt127
Member
- Joined
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- 2,112
In the 10 years I was a SWAT cop, I carried an MP5 with a single mag in it (I prefer the balance of a single mag in an MP5) and two spares on my vest. Thats 91 rounds. I carried a Gov't Model with two spare mags. Thats 22 rounds. And a 5 shot 642 with no reload. Thats 118 rounds total.
On duty, I now carry a Glock 35 and two spare mags. Thats 46 rounds. A 642, 5 rounds. An AR15 with a 20 rounder in it and three 30 rounders to back it up. Thats 191 rounds.
Off Duty, I carry either a S&W 65 3" and one speed loader...12 rounds. Or a Sig P239 and one extra mag. The primary reason for carrying a spare mag is for a failure.
In 20 years of carrying, in a major metropotitan area, I have never needed a single one of those rounds. I am amazed that there are people that feel the need to carry 200 rounds on them. There needs to be a reality check every once in awhile.
If you ever need to use your weapon to defend yourself, your attorney is going to have to prove, to a jury of librarians, CPA'a and Teamsters that you are a sane and rational person. If you are carrying enough firepower and weaponry to take over a small third world country, your attorney is going to have his hands full.
"Reasonable" would be the same amount of ammo the local cops are carrying on their belts. Thats an easy standard to show in front of a jury.
On duty, I now carry a Glock 35 and two spare mags. Thats 46 rounds. A 642, 5 rounds. An AR15 with a 20 rounder in it and three 30 rounders to back it up. Thats 191 rounds.
Off Duty, I carry either a S&W 65 3" and one speed loader...12 rounds. Or a Sig P239 and one extra mag. The primary reason for carrying a spare mag is for a failure.
In 20 years of carrying, in a major metropotitan area, I have never needed a single one of those rounds. I am amazed that there are people that feel the need to carry 200 rounds on them. There needs to be a reality check every once in awhile.
If you ever need to use your weapon to defend yourself, your attorney is going to have to prove, to a jury of librarians, CPA'a and Teamsters that you are a sane and rational person. If you are carrying enough firepower and weaponry to take over a small third world country, your attorney is going to have his hands full.
"Reasonable" would be the same amount of ammo the local cops are carrying on their belts. Thats an easy standard to show in front of a jury.
Northslope Nimrod
Member
Makarov.....8 rounds
BHP......10 rounds
CZ...... 10 rounds
So far, I don't carry a spare mag...BUT I will once I work out the logistics of where and how. If I'm in the mountains, my Hip holster has a spare mag holder and I DO carry one then.
BHP......10 rounds
CZ...... 10 rounds
So far, I don't carry a spare mag...BUT I will once I work out the logistics of where and how. If I'm in the mountains, my Hip holster has a spare mag holder and I DO carry one then.
pittspilot
Member
Charter Arms Undercover -- 5 rounds
Makarov -- 9 rounds
Springfield XD -- 11 rounds
Hi-Power -- 16 rounds
I carry what's in the gun. I have never been able to comfortably carry spare clips.
Makarov -- 9 rounds
Springfield XD -- 11 rounds
Hi-Power -- 16 rounds
I carry what's in the gun. I have never been able to comfortably carry spare clips.
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