DammitBoy
Member
By your failed logic there should not be armed guards in courthouses, hospitals, schools, or banks.
By your failed logic there should not be armed guards in courthouses, hospitals, schools, or banks.
Hear, hear!By the logic that I've used all through this thread, there should be armed citizens everywhere.
You still have the right to not be assaulted or otherwise wronged. That's like saying if I chose to go into a Wal-Mart the employees could shoot me if they wanted to. Simply entering private property doesn't take away any of my rights. Entering someone's house does not in itself give them the right to shoot me. They don't have that unless my manner of entry or other actions cause them to fear for their safety.PRIVATE property business/owner however is 100% voluntary and by your choice to be there. You have NO rights there; (Other than the right to leave); only privileges.
Think the next 200 will help any?
I SPECIFICALLY ASKED the attendant about concealed carry weapons; for the curiosity of this thread. Both the lady and the gentleman at the entrance said that they only cared that VISIBLE weapons that could POTENTIALLY be handled; we unloaded, tie wrapped, and marked as personally property. So; at least for here and this gun show; there wasn't a problem.
She converted to Jehovah Witness; which doesn't accept being in the military. She could have kept her mouth shut, but she was willing to give up 17 years (only needing 3 more for a retirement pension and benefits) because she believed strongly in her convictions.
And while physically you may believe that they aren't being hurt; it could be a moral issue for them. And as such; they put up the sign. And please don't mention "IF THEY DON'T KNOW I HAVE IT". That's not relevant. NOT going in their business with a "CONCEALED" weapon is a matter of respect and honor. To say you respect but you don't follow their policies is hypocritical. But that point has already been made. I'm just stating how it COULD HARM a person morally within their beliefs.
You've been asked before, but haven't answered: You DO ASK each business owner that you patronize while armed if you may enter with your concealed weapon, RIGHT? To not do so while holding the beliefs that you've espoused would be CATASTROPHICALLY hypocritical.NOT going in their business with a "CONCEALED" weapon is a matter of respect and honor.
And while physically you may believe that they aren't being hurt; it could be a moral issue for them.
I'm just stating how it COULD HARM a person morally within their beliefs.
If the only potential hurt they could receive from my gun is a psychological one, then then if they don't know I have it they cannot be hurt by it. I'm not going to mention something that makes perfect sense just because YOU think it's irrelevant.And please don't mention "IF THEY DON'T KNOW I HAVE IT".
Hey, if you want to think that a property owners preferences based on their own hoplophobia outrank your right to protect yourself and your family against injury and death, with no one affected in any way unless you're attacked, go right ahead. How are you going to determine whether carrying concealed is something the property owner is comfortable with? If there's no sign do you just assume you can carry? That seems like quite the assumption. Do you ask every time you enter any establishment whether you can carry concealed there or not? If you don't I think you're being quite the hypocrite. If you want to go so far as to say the property owner's rights trump yours every time, you'd better be darn sure to find out what the property owner wants you to do.It's not going to change that I believe that the RULES and POLICIES that the private property owner has, out ranks yours.
I'd basically be saying that the property owner's rights (On their property); trumps your rights every time. ASSUMING; you maintain the right to leave at any time you choose without delay or detention.
YES, it's a FACT; that other than by YOUR CHOICE; you don't have to be on that property owner's property.
You can argue your RIGHTS all you want. But as long as you aren't FORCED to be there, you have absolutely no moral, legal, or logical argument against a person/business saying: "No Guns"; "No Children"; "No Dogs"; or anything else they want to put on the window. As long as it applies to ALL PEOPLE, you have absolutely no argument.
if you can come up with some LOGICAL argument that hasn't already been answered numerous times and/or hasn't been covered by logic; I.e. there are LAWS that clearly state;
No, they're not. I am. And if they want me to disarm they'd better take that responsibility.They are RESPONSIBLE if the FOOD they offer is bad. BUT THEY ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE if you are Robbed, pick pocketed, etc... while on their property.
Gryff; that TOO has already been explained and discussed in a prior post. Just like if there is no LAW that clarifies property owner's rights, then the property owner is given the lean; so in reverse. Whatever the property owner DOES NOT PROHIBIT knowingly to the patrons, is considered PERMITTED. (Within the constraints of the law). I.e. he doesn't have to say no drugs, because the law says so. He doesn't have to say NO DESTRUCTION of property, because the law says so. However; if there are NO SIGNS posting a certain activity as being prohibited, then it is permitted. It is NOT UP TO YOU to determine the property owner's desires, wishes, intent, etc... It is the responsibility of the property owner to DISCLOSE all rules, policies, prohibitions, etc.... That TOO has been held up in many courts in many states. Especially with the "No Trespassing" laws where there was no clear fence, sign, etc... Out where we live, there are many PUBLIC roads that go through the MIDDLE OF PRIVATE PROPERTY. (That's what happens when you have property/ranches in the thousands of acres. If there are no signs, fences, etc.... restricting OFF ROAD TRAVEL; then the property owner has no right other than to ASK the individual to stay ON the road.Still waiting for you to explain what you do to determine you're acting according to the property owner's wishes.