Cop to you..."drop your weapon"...how to drop?

[Biker]

I agree Jeff and Jim, I've been in situations where I knew the cops were coming and made sure that my weapon was out of sight. However, the original question is the one I replied to. If unexpectedly a cop came up on my while I was obviously armed, I'm doing *exactly* what I'm told. No less, no more.
I don't look good in red.
Biker

 

[JMusic]

Biker I've never seen you give bad advise when it comes to how to interact with LE Officers. You must have had alot of practice. Stay well
Jim

 

[Biker]

Ah Jim. An innuendo! And no, that's not a Mexican suppository!
Biker

 

[tellner]

Well, since I live in DPRK, any gun I have has to be drop-tested, so I'd just drop it. But only if it's stainless and has low-profile fixed sights and cheap grips. No way I'm scratching up a nice gun, smashing up cocobolo, or tweaking target sights.

The grips and sights aren't worth your life. If the officer says "Drop it!" you have the classic choice - Comply or Die. I can replace grips and realign sights. I can't replace me.

 

[GEM]

If you just shot someone, even if it is a good shoot, the legal costs will eat up the cost of your gun. I've heard in class that even in a no bill incident - you can easily rack up $5K of legal costs.

So, not being shot but having a broken grip - Fine with me.

 

[pete f]

Now we have had a cople of LEO's tell us what to do on here, and yet people are saying nooooo do it this way.......

have you ever seen Cops? the TV show, Ever see how wound up and cranky they get at a scene of a crime when they hear the dispatcher say "Armed" in reference to suspect......ever see ten cops jump on top of one guy even though the first three have him under control?
Do you really want guys this antsy holding a gun pointed at you while you lean over to set the gun down, what happens if you stumble.

Only time I have had this happen to me I was in front of a yard with a retaining wall that came up to my waist. I had the guy on the ground covered with the gun, three squads arrive more or less simultaneous, When I had wife call 911 I had her tell cops good guy is wearing bright yellow sweat shirt. second cop out of car yells at me to "DROP THE GUN" in a really nervous voice....I raised hands and grabbed 1911 by barrel and slowly but delibertly set it on the wall and and put my hands up high (really HIGH!) a pair of hands grabs me from behind and pulls me backwards away from gun several steps while first officer is holding the BG on the ground at gunpoint. I get cuffed and firmly sat on the ground, with the words "DON"T move" in my ears. One officer covers me while three go to the bad guy and cuff him. After all is secure, older cop walks to me and asks for my ID I tell him in my wallet and I lean forward he takes it out and sees the CCW permit on top of my license and I can feel him relax.

I tell him we had gone to my mother in laws now unlived-in house to get it clean for a showing, and noticed that a back window was now open and someone was in house, wife called 911 and I pulled weapon and yelled that cops were on the way and who ever was in the house better sit still. instead I heard more glass breaking and subject was climbing out a bed room window, I ran out the door and told him to lay down or die, he looked at me and the gun and he decided I was not kidding. (had he run the other way, i would have let him go, had he run toward me I would have shot.)

Older cop uncuffs me, walks to retaining wall and picks up my gun, drops mag, clears chamber, hands me gun and mag and bullet and says do not load it till we are done.

 

[JMusic]

Pete, excellent observation. Two things generally happen on a call like this. One, is you get disinformation. When that starts the info usually turns worse. Two, many guys me included just took a rollercoaster ride getting there. Everyone knows the state of mind after getting off a good coaster, times that by 4. That is the adrenalin junky who has just showed up.
Jim

 

[dasmi]

If it were me, I'd be carrying my Ruger Service Six.
It won't fire if dropped, just won't happen. So I'd drop it, and take the scratch on the gun.

 

[Moondoggie]

The dynamics of these situations are pretty scary. I've been on both sides.

As much as it would pain me to drop a pistol, if the officer seemed really antsy I'd probably do it. My life is worth more than whatever damage might occur.

During my encounter as a civilian, I had 2 burglars up against the outside wall of my detached garage at 4 AM. I had called 911 on the cordless phone, described my situation, told the dispatcher what I was wearing, and told her that I was armed, also that my wife was with me and armed too. Before the deputies arrived, the BG's decided to exit the garage. I commanded them into "the position" and they complied. The deputies arrived less than a minute later. First deputy remarked "Wow, you made my job easy!" I asked him to let me know what he wanted wife & I to do with our pistols...he said "You can put them away now." I handed mine off to wife and she took them inside the house. As Jeff mentioned can happen, BG # 1 got froggy with the deputy between cuffs being applied to wrists and got his face mashed into stucco for his troubles with an admonishment from the deputy "Don't even THINK about it."

So many thoughts running through your head from dialing 911 to LEO arriving...don't screw this up and get shot by BG's...don't screw this up and shoot somebody unjustifiably...if you HAVE to shoot, don't miss...don't screw this up and get shot by the cops...don't screw this up and shoot a cop.

 

[progunner1957]

Tennifer & polymer doesn't scratch!

The "DROP IT!!" order is a good reason to carry a $550 Glock instead of a $2500 custom 1911.

As the old saying goes, "Ed Brown, Wilson, Les Baer: The guns you show your friends. Glock: The gun you show your enemies."

 

[meh92]

If I told someone to "drop your gun," I'd be looking for quick complaince. If you clamly told the officer, "OK" and slowly set it on the ground being careful not to point it at anyone you'd be OK with me. Moving slowly and giving verbal replies to the officer's commands would be a really good idea.

I am no fan of tossing guns onto hard surfaces. Some cops are not particularly gun literate and don't understand that this could possibly (however unlikely) cause a discharge.

 

[GruntII]

I was told to to tell people Don't Move!! in a loud clear command voice with adjectives and adverbs to match the person I was dealing with. My academy's philosphy if they have a weapon you don't want them to move, you don't want to expect movement that can give them the intiative. Once everyone was frozen in place, we took care of sorting things out.If I told you not to move and you moved it was considered hostile. I will be honest folks I'm more scared of my brothers in blue than bad guys.Way to many buzz cut gargoyle wearing steriod fed young brainwashed coppers out there. Anyone with a gun is the enemy. That's why I don't do intervention unless it is absolutely 110% percent unadvoidable due to loss of life. In my state pistol permits are easily obtained and when I'm off duty I'm off duty. A citzen who can have the means to protect themselves and chooses not to generally is on their on. Yeah it's a crappy attitude but it's a crappy world.

 

[Biker]

My biggest fear in such a situation is that I would suddenly wheel around to counter a percieved threat and wouldn't realize that it was a cop until after I was shot.
Biker

 

[mordechaianiliewicz]

Despite what some firearms experts and law enforcement officials would have you believe, (*cough* Ayoob *cough*) the average police officer is just a scared person without very much firearms training asked to do a thankless job for way too little pay. For every 'good citizen' story he's heard there are at least 50 horror stories of 80-year-old grannies gatting down officers trying to take their cat 'Fluffy' from a tree or ambushes during routine traffic stops. They just want to go home to the S.O. and kids. And they will blow a hole, or ten, in you if they feel frightened enough by the situation to make sure that homecoming happens at the end of their shift.

Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )

I agree with Mr.Phipps (love the name by the way). Cops choose their level of familiarity and practice with firearms much like anyone in our society. And like any one of us wants to see the significant other and the kids again regardless of whether they hate guns, and dislike the one they have for their job, or have a Jane's Manual in their head and post on THR and AR-15.com and own 50 guns.

Also, cops (especially urban cops) on an almost daily basis do some truly nasty horrible work. I used to work around cops in the KCPD and have to admit, Kansas City, MO (not too bad a town crime-wise), had certain precincts where cops drew their gun atleast once a week, and at certain times atleast once a shift.

They work with scumbags, and until they can sort out whats going on, they are in a different mode. What's more, few cops tell you to drop the gun, but in general, I would suggest telling the policeman you are lowering the gun onto the ground before doing it. Then stepping away. No matter what following any instructions your are given.

 

[Strings]

Hmmm... let me make sure I've got the situation right in my mind. You've stopped the robbery of a stop 'n' rob, and have the BG proned in front of you. The police arrive behind you, and your first clue that they're present is the command "DROP THE GUN!". That sound about right?

Officer Friendly: "DROP THE GUN!"
Me: "Ok officer. I'm putting the gun down". Grab barrel in off hand, raise dominant hand into the air, slowly bend down to place gun on ground. Keep my voice level and as calm as possible as I tell the nice man pointing a weapon at me what I'm doing, every step of the way. Once gun is on the ground and I'm upright again, ask him how he'd like me to proceed...

Would I just drop a gun? Not likely: while the chance of an AD is slight, it IS present. There's also the bouce factor: it could EASILY bounce closer to the BG, while Officer Friendly is focusing on me. This ranks WAY up there on the "Bad Things" list. However, in the above situation, I'd drop it if the officer sounded too nervous...

I've dealt with the "WOW! ADRENALINE!" officer types: always seems to work MUCH better if you give them cues that you're NOT gonna do anything unexpected (speaking in a calm manner, telling them what you're doing as you're complying with their orders, little things like that). Of course, I'd also be kicking myself for having such poor situational awareness...

 

[pangris]

You know, Clint Smith drills into your head that you won't have "good guy" and "bad guy" labels when the cops get there.

I've considered getting "good guy" undershirts specifically for that reason

I would tell the officer that I was going to set the gun down, do so, and take a step back.

FWIW, last time I got pulled over and a cop had to deal with my 1911, he didn't know how to unload it. I had to walk him through it. Nothing short of amazing.

 

[Biker]

Well guys, if I have a nervous cop with his muzzle on me, I'm gonna do what he says. If it's "Drop it!", I'm droppin' it. If he tells me to fart I'll even poot out the theme song from Hawaii 5-0 for the guy.
Beats gettin' dead.
Biker

 

[Hypnogator]

This is why I teach officers the command, "Put the weapon down!"

If the gun drops and goes off, the officer would be liable, but that's the least of your worries. The startle response to an unexpected gunshot is to shoot. If his (or her) gun is pointed at you, well, your day just got a whole lot worse!

 

[Strings]

>If the gun drops and goes off, the officer would be liable, but that's the least of your worries. The startle response to an unexpected gunshot is to shoot. If his (or her) gun is pointed at you, well, your day just got a whole lot worse!<

DINGDINGDING! We have a winnah!

Heck... I'd think that the sound of a 1911 hitting the hard ground might even set 'em off.

Oh... just so y'all understand: while i'd try my damndest to keep my voice calm, my train of thought would PROBABLY go somthing like this: "oh my gods I'm dead - why the [deleted explitive] didn't I notice the cops showing up - did the perp just move - I hope the cop's not trigger happy - damn my pants smell bad now - just move REAL slow while I set this down - he sounds nervous..."

anyone claiming otherwise is lying, I think...

 

[crazed_ss]

The State of CA has "certified" my pistol as being safe.
http://justice.doj.ca.gov/safeguns/safeguns.asp

So I should be able to drop it from 4ft in the air without worrying about it going off. If the cop says "Drop you weapon" .. I will release my grip on it and let gravity take over..

Sure the finish will get scratched, but oh well.. better than getting shot for not complying fast enough.

 

[Kentak]

I would immediately, but smoothly, raise my weak hand and at the same time bend down and place the gun on the ground, coming back up with open hand.

As for CCW holders carrying a gun *and* cuffs. Gimme a break. Talk about a Walter Mitty complex. If you think you're that likely to need 'em, change your lifestyle or become a cop.

K

 

[psychophipps]

During my encounter as a civilian, I had 2 burglars up against the outside wall of my detached garage at 4 AM. I had called 911 on the cordless phone, described my situation, told the dispatcher what I was wearing, and told her that I was armed, also that my wife was with me and armed too. Before the deputies arrived, the BG's decided to exit the garage. I commanded them into "the position" and they complied. The deputies arrived less than a minute later. First deputy remarked "Wow, you made my job easy!" I asked him to let me know what he wanted wife & I to do with our pistols...he said "You can put them away now." I handed mine off to wife and she took them inside the house. As Jeff mentioned can happen, BG # 1 got froggy with the deputy between cuffs being applied to wrists and got his face mashed into stucco for his troubles with an admonishment from the deputy "Don't even THINK about it."

And this works great if you're the one who made the call. If that same dispatcher got a call from some fear-crazed hairdresser shrieking, "OMG! OMG! Hello? There was bullets flying everywhere (when you fired once) and this guy is lying on the ground and the shooter is still pointing the gun at him and he looks mad and I think he just murdered him and OMG! OMG!" then those officers will just a tad bit more apprehensive when they get to the scene.

Glad your situation worked out great for you,
Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )

 

[GEM]

These are my cuffs, this is my gun.
The gun is for fighting, the cuffs are for fun.

Works for me.

 

[pax]

Despite what some firearms experts and law enforcement officials would have you believe, (*cough* Ayoob *cough*) the average police officer is just a scared person without very much firearms training asked to do a thankless job for way too little pay.

You know, I don't remember hearing Ayoob ever say anything about cops being any different from regular people.

But I do remember that in LFI-1, he teaches people exactly how to drop a weapon if it needs to be done. And he spends a lot of time explaining how to work the circumstances to avoid having the cops come up on you while you've got the gun out.

pax

 

[geekWithA.45]

My biggest fear in such a situation is that I would suddenly wheel around to counter a percieved threat and wouldn't realize that it was a cop until after I was shot.

Aikido teaches us to wheel off the line of attack.


Handy thing, that.