Let's say you find yourself in a situation where someone is pointing a gun at you. Doesn't really matter who or why. (besides a cop) You have a gun in your pocket. What do you do? Pull your gun and tell the BG to drop his? Or pull your gun and start shooting without giving him a chance to react?
What do you do when you've got a gun in your face?
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Thernlund
Member
I don't pull my gun at all. I'm going to try to talk my way out. The person pointing a gun at me already has the drop on me. I go for mine... I'm dead.
If it gets to a point where I can be absolutely sure I can draw and shoot... and survive, I'll ride that thing to slide-lock without a word.
-T.
EDIT: The last remark assumes that a criminal/thug is threatening me is some fashion. In other words, a "BAD GUY". I wouldn't shoot my misguided angry teenage kid. Nor would I shoot if the situation was completely defused. I would only shoot while the threat still exisited.
If it gets to a point where I can be absolutely sure I can draw and shoot... and survive, I'll ride that thing to slide-lock without a word.
-T.
EDIT: The last remark assumes that a criminal/thug is threatening me is some fashion. In other words, a "BAD GUY". I wouldn't shoot my misguided angry teenage kid. Nor would I shoot if the situation was completely defused. I would only shoot while the threat still exisited.
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mljdeckard
Member
Yeah. If my hand is already in my pocket on the gun, he's getting the first round waist-level. If it's in my pocket, it's a shrouded-hammer revolver, I wouldn't carry anything else in my pocket, I keep shooting. Once his gun is already pointed at me, the only reason to talk at all is to try to distract so that I can shoot. I'm not de-escalating anything.
easyg
Member
Very slowly, turn around so that your back is to him, and slowly walk away until you're about 100 feet away....then run!
If he really wanted to kill you, he would have already pulled the trigger.
If he really wanted to kill you, he would have already pulled the trigger.
shouldifail
Member
besides pooping my pants, i would do whatever was asked of me and try to deescalate the situation. if its just some thug, using a gun to frighten me into handing over some cash...i'll give up my cash rather than taking a bullet to the face.
granted, it may be hard to gauge a situation under such a high level of stress/fear/anxiety, so i couldn't really can't be sure.
however if i felt my life was in jeapordy no matter what i did (or gave the bad guy) and my hand was already on the gun in my pocket, i might try to knock/block/restrain/move the gun away from my head with my weak hand while drawing and firing with my strong hand.
i hope to never be in this situation.
granted, it may be hard to gauge a situation under such a high level of stress/fear/anxiety, so i couldn't really can't be sure.
however if i felt my life was in jeapordy no matter what i did (or gave the bad guy) and my hand was already on the gun in my pocket, i might try to knock/block/restrain/move the gun away from my head with my weak hand while drawing and firing with my strong hand.
i hope to never be in this situation.
brownie0486
Member
Take the gun away from him.
Check the link, in post #13, I do just that, and the BG [ in this case an LE ] knows I'm going to attempt it which the real BG would not know making this even easier to perform.
http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155
edited to add: Talking about it and actually showing people you can pull it off succesffully on demand is very different. I've been training others in this skill since 1981 as well as a gun from behind which few train others in.
Brownie
Check the link, in post #13, I do just that, and the BG [ in this case an LE ] knows I'm going to attempt it which the real BG would not know making this even easier to perform.
http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155
edited to add: Talking about it and actually showing people you can pull it off succesffully on demand is very different.
I've been training others in this skill since 1981 as well as a gun from behind which few train others in.Brownie
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Rob Pincus
Member
What Strambo said...
Pocket shooting hopes and choreographed martial arts moves are nothing to risk your life on. The more skills (verbal, physical, shooting, etc) you have, the greater your options, but there are no easy answers.
Take a realistic integrated (unarmed & armed) close quarters course if you want to understand and develop your skills in this context. I continually hear nothing but great things about Southnarc's programs and would like to get into one of his courses myself someday.... we also offer a 2 day course at Valhalla.
-RJP
Pocket shooting hopes and choreographed martial arts moves are nothing to risk your life on. The more skills (verbal, physical, shooting, etc) you have, the greater your options, but there are no easy answers.
Take a realistic integrated (unarmed & armed) close quarters course if you want to understand and develop your skills in this context. I continually hear nothing but great things about Southnarc's programs and would like to get into one of his courses myself someday.... we also offer a 2 day course at Valhalla.
-RJP
brownie0486
Member
The more skills (verbal, physical, shooting, etc) you have, the greater your options, but there are no easy answers.
Gun in your face demands action, not verbal skills. There's a time for talking and a time for action, immediately without hesitation.
The mentors informed that as long as the gun muzzle is painting you, you are theoretically dead. May not even mean to pull the trigger, but startled for some reason and the trigger gets yanked, you are no less dead. The longer the muzzle is painting you, the longer you are theoetically dead.
Brownie
Gun in your face demands action, not verbal skills. There's a time for talking and a time for action, immediately without hesitation.
The mentors informed that as long as the gun muzzle is painting you, you are theoretically dead. May not even mean to pull the trigger, but startled for some reason and the trigger gets yanked, you are no less dead. The longer the muzzle is painting you, the longer you are theoetically dead.
Brownie
Rob Pincus
Member
Handing over a wallet/cash drawer/etc has been a good enough immediate action for many people who have had a gun in their face. I can't second guess that reality and let it lead me to advising an action that might get someone hurt. I'd always rather act than react, but that doesn't mean launching into something "just because". In the moment analysis, knowledge of ones skills and judgement must play a role. That isn't as easy to teach, learn or advocate off-handedly in a forum, and it may not sound like the tough guy answer, but it is where I stand. Sometimes it's tougher to admit when you're in a bad situation or accept the overwhelming nature of some variables and realize that there is no easy answer.
Actually, Brownie, your video also reminded me of that old discussion on another forum about the importance of not extending your gun until you're ready to shoot!
Actually, Brownie, your video also reminded me of that old discussion on another forum about the importance of not extending your gun until you're ready to shoot!
evan price
Member
Well, according to the propaganda, anyone WITH a gun will just have it taken away from them and used against them.
Therefore, I would just take their gun away and use it against them.
Problem is, now *I* have the gun, so my opponent will easily be able to take it away from *me* and use it against me.
I assume we would alternate disarming each other until one of us gave up or passed out from exhaustion.
Therefore, I would just take their gun away and use it against them.
Problem is, now *I* have the gun, so my opponent will easily be able to take it away from *me* and use it against me.
I assume we would alternate disarming each other until one of us gave up or passed out from exhaustion.
M2 Carbine
member
Talk and hope for an opening to shoot him.
308win
Member
What would you gain by telling him to drop his weapon? Any reasonable person is going to believe you when you assert you feared for your life while standing there with a gun in your face.
brownie0486
Member
Handing over a wallet/cash drawer/etc has been a good enough immediate action for many people who have had a gun in their face.
I agree, but the determination of whether you live or die is in THEIR hands, not yours in those instances. We also have all read of cases where the victim complied and was then killed anyway. I prefer NOT to let my own life be dictated by some arswipes idea of fair play if I comply.
In the moment analysis, knowledge of ones skills and judgement must play a role
I also agree here.
That isn't as easy to teach, learn or advocate off-handedly in a forum, and it may not sound like the tough guy answer, but it is where I stand.
There was no attempt to teach, nor expectation anyone would learn in my previous posts, nor was it meant to be taken as a "tough guy answer". It was meant to demonstrate the mindset of not allowing yourself to be a victim any longer than you have to [ as you can die by accident at any moment as long as the muzzle is painting you or just as simply by the BG's will to just do you anyway after you comply ]by having preplanned courses of actions based on forethought and proper training in these various skills.
Relative advising anyone in "an action" in any post in this thread by anyone here who has answered or will possibly answer in the future:
The OP's question was "What do you do when you've got a gun in your face?" I simply answered the question of what I'd do, that answer premised on my own mindset, training and experiences in the past. For anyone to suggest that advise is being given in answering the OP's question by anyone seems to suggest that person didn't read what was being asked.
If you haven't got the knowledge and training, the experience to determine your own fate, then you are at a disadvantage to those who would do you harm.
The simple answer is, gun in your face, take it from them. LIke everything in life, things are difficult until they aren't.
evan price, no they don't get it back Did you watch the clip on the link? He's on the ground in a very disadvantaged position.
Brownie
I agree, but the determination of whether you live or die is in THEIR hands, not yours in those instances. We also have all read of cases where the victim complied and was then killed anyway. I prefer NOT to let my own life be dictated by some arswipes idea of fair play if I comply.
In the moment analysis, knowledge of ones skills and judgement must play a role
I also agree here.
That isn't as easy to teach, learn or advocate off-handedly in a forum, and it may not sound like the tough guy answer, but it is where I stand.
There was no attempt to teach, nor expectation anyone would learn in my previous posts, nor was it meant to be taken as a "tough guy answer". It was meant to demonstrate the mindset of not allowing yourself to be a victim any longer than you have to [ as you can die by accident at any moment as long as the muzzle is painting you or just as simply by the BG's will to just do you anyway after you comply ]by having preplanned courses of actions based on forethought and proper training in these various skills.
Relative advising anyone in "an action" in any post in this thread by anyone here who has answered or will possibly answer in the future:
The OP's question was "What do you do when you've got a gun in your face?" I simply answered the question of what I'd do, that answer premised on my own mindset, training and experiences in the past. For anyone to suggest that advise is being given in answering the OP's question by anyone seems to suggest that person didn't read what was being asked.
If you haven't got the knowledge and training, the experience to determine your own fate, then you are at a disadvantage to those who would do you harm.
The simple answer is, gun in your face, take it from them. LIke everything in life, things are difficult until they aren't.
evan price, no they don't get it back
Did you watch the clip on the link? He's on the ground in a very disadvantaged position. Brownie
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TheLastBoyScout
Member
BS.
It's significantly easier to shoot someone in the back than the front (See Grossman, On Killing). That's why you see the biggest battle casualty figures when one side gets routed. Turning your back on an enemy is NEVER a good idea.
If he can almost overcome his psych aversion to killing looking at a human face, I'd give pretty good odds he'd be able to overcome it and shoot you in the back if he didn't have to see your face while he did it.
FerFAL
Member
If he's that close, you may be able to grab the gun and wrestle it away from him. Depends on how big the guy looks, and if it looks as if you can handle him.
FerFAL
FerFAL
FerFAL
Member
Also depends a lot on many other factors.
A pro wont shove a gun in your face, he’ll keep a distance so you don’t make your move, also work with a crew, 2 or 3 other guys, so you are pretty much screwed. If he remains calm, I’ll hand him the wallet and cell, maybe even ask to leave my ID as a favor.
If it’s a nervous junky who may shoot me any second, or if it’s in front of my house and they want to go in, I’ll risk it.
FerFAL
A pro wont shove a gun in your face, he’ll keep a distance so you don’t make your move, also work with a crew, 2 or 3 other guys, so you are pretty much screwed. If he remains calm, I’ll hand him the wallet and cell, maybe even ask to leave my ID as a favor.
If it’s a nervous junky who may shoot me any second, or if it’s in front of my house and they want to go in, I’ll risk it.
FerFAL
brownie0486
Member
A pro wont shove a gun in your face, he’ll keep a distance so you don’t make your move, also work with a crew, 2 or 3 other guys, so you are pretty much screwed
Lets keep the thread in context. The OP asked about a gun in your face. He's obviously not a pro in that scenario.
You're only screwed if you think you are screwed, then you've already lost mentally to begin with.
Most of the students I train think when they are holding a knife to my neck that I'm screwed, then they find themselves on the ground without the knife as well.
If you've watched the reaction and comments from the BG who's taken down with the gun on the link, his comments are to the effect "ok, ok, who wants to be his next victim" [ meaning he was the victim to my actions when he thought I was the victim as he had the gun ].
Brownie
Lets keep the thread in context. The OP asked about a gun in your face. He's obviously not a pro in that scenario.
You're only screwed if you think you are screwed, then you've already lost mentally to begin with.
Most of the students I train think when they are holding a knife to my neck that I'm screwed, then they find themselves on the ground without the knife as well.
If you've watched the reaction and comments from the BG who's taken down with the gun on the link, his comments are to the effect "ok, ok, who wants to be his next victim" [ meaning he was the victim to my actions when he thought I was the victim as he had the gun ].
Brownie
brownie0486
Member
double post
Brownie
Brownie
easyg
Member
TheLastBoyScout:
Second, we're not talking about war tactics, we're talking about someone pointing a gun at your face requesting your money.
You simply cannot equate how a soldier will act during a battle with how a criminal will act during a robbery.
Very few violent criminals would have any problem at all with shooting you in the face for your wallet.
But luckily, most thieves are not the murdering type.
That's why they use fear and intimidation to get you to comply.
If the guy was prepared to shoot you for your money then he would not mess around asking for you to comply.
He would just shoot you and take the wallet.
Another benefit of walking/running away is this:
1) He probably will not even shoot.
2) If he does shoot, there's a good chance he will miss.
3) If he does shoot you, there's a good chance that it will not kill you and you will be able to get to someone who can call you an ambulance.
Besides, look at the alternatives:
You give him what he wants:
You still have a gun pointing at you and there is no guarantee that he will not shoot you anyway.
You attempt to snatch his pistol:
You might get shot trying it, even if he never actually intended to shoot you.
You might miss altogether and then you're back to "square one", except this time he's scared and/or excited and still pointing a gun at you.
First of all, don't believe everything you read.
Second, we're not talking about war tactics, we're talking about someone pointing a gun at your face requesting your money.
You simply cannot equate how a soldier will act during a battle with how a criminal will act during a robbery.
Very few violent criminals would have any problem at all with shooting you in the face for your wallet.
But luckily, most thieves are not the murdering type.
That's why they use fear and intimidation to get you to comply.
If the guy was prepared to shoot you for your money then he would not mess around asking for you to comply.
He would just shoot you and take the wallet.
Another benefit of walking/running away is this:
1) He probably will not even shoot.
2) If he does shoot, there's a good chance he will miss.
3) If he does shoot you, there's a good chance that it will not kill you and you will be able to get to someone who can call you an ambulance.
Besides, look at the alternatives:
You give him what he wants:
You still have a gun pointing at you and there is no guarantee that he will not shoot you anyway.
You attempt to snatch his pistol:
You might get shot trying it, even if he never actually intended to shoot you.
You might miss altogether and then you're back to "square one", except this time he's scared and/or excited and still pointing a gun at you.
FerFAL
Member
I used the S word when you have 3 armed men holding you at gun point, professional criminals that keep their cool and distance, you don’t have any good odds. The trick is realizing what’s going on before you find yourself in such an ugly sport, caution and awareness beats the fastest gun in town. If you see them coming you may get away or even draw and start shooting turning the surprise factor against them. People have won against multiple assailants doing that.
Positive attitude only achieves certain things, it’s not magic.
At short distance or contact, as your video shows (nice! by the way) Action beats reaction almost all the time. When we tried it at a class I took, we kept it going beyond the act of turning the gun away form your body. We struggled, grabbed the gun, tried to turn it against each other, and on a different exercise the “victim” was armed too, so you had to keep the bad guy’s gun away from you, while drawing and shooting your own.
The results were quite surprising. Even when we all knew that we were going to get shot and the shooter knew the “victim” would fight back, in most cases younger guys with better reflexes where able turn the gun away and then fight or take it away form the shooter, the shooter not being able to place a single shot on target. About 90% of the time ( in average) younger guys managed to avoid getting shot, even wrestle, hit, or take the gun away form the shooter, or shoot the attacker with their own gun.
The older guys had a much harder time(+45 or so. don’t hate me, I’m just saying what happened in this particular class with this particular group of students. Our instructor, about 40 or so, is pretty fast and strong and would sure fare much better than that) , not being as successful with the initial move of avoiding getting shot, and almost never won the following fight for control of the weapon, or they fell when the younger attacker pushed, or moved away to shoot at them.
What I learned out of this exercise is that reflexes are very important, thanks to those you win the “action faster than reaction” part where you move away and pull the gun away form the body, and after that you need to be strong and skilled enough to either fight your attacker or at least keep him at bay to place your own shots.
FerFAL
Positive attitude only achieves certain things, it’s not magic.
At short distance or contact, as your video shows (nice! by the way
) Action beats reaction almost all the time. When we tried it at a class I took, we kept it going beyond the act of turning the gun away form your body. We struggled, grabbed the gun, tried to turn it against each other, and on a different exercise the “victim” was armed too, so you had to keep the bad guy’s gun away from you, while drawing and shooting your own.The results were quite surprising. Even when we all knew that we were going to get shot and the shooter knew the “victim” would fight back, in most cases younger guys with better reflexes where able turn the gun away and then fight or take it away form the shooter, the shooter not being able to place a single shot on target. About 90% of the time ( in average) younger guys managed to avoid getting shot, even wrestle, hit, or take the gun away form the shooter, or shoot the attacker with their own gun.
The older guys had a much harder time(+45 or so. don’t hate me, I’m just saying what happened in this particular class with this particular group of students. Our instructor, about 40 or so, is pretty fast and strong and would sure fare much better than that
) , not being as successful with the initial move of avoiding getting shot, and almost never won the following fight for control of the weapon, or they fell when the younger attacker pushed, or moved away to shoot at them.What I learned out of this exercise is that reflexes are very important, thanks to those you win the “action faster than reaction” part where you move away and pull the gun away form the body, and after that you need to be strong and skilled enough to either fight your attacker or at least keep him at bay to place your own shots.
FerFAL
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