What do you do when you've got a gun in your face?
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Constantine-p89
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When I had a opurtunity for sure I would draw and add some lead to his diet.
bluestarlizzard
Member
in a close confrentation there are ways to physically take the gun or knock it out of the way, giving yourself the moment to draw/shoot. personally i would not just hand over the wallet and let the goblin control the situation (and decide wiether i live or die). if i have a gun trained on me, i will assume that my life is in immediate threat and act accordingly.
Rob Pincus
Member
Its important to remember that these things are continually developing.. in the process of presenting the wallet (or whatever) you could find that opportunity to do something more proactive.... again, the variables are almost limitless.
In my face, right?
That means the gun is very close to my body, and so is person's gun hand/arm.
Look at something behind him. Pretend to stare at it in terror. He will probably look around just for a second to see what it is. Swing yourself so you are directly in front of him and the gun is in front of both of you. Use your arms to clasp his arms so that he cannot swing it around. Grasp his wrist right below the little bone where there is a pressure point. Squeeze hard and he might drop the gun. That pressure point is very painful.
It sounds easy, but NO, it takes a lot of practice and a cool mind. You can never be sure you will be able to execute the moves in the right order. You must practice with a partner or a martial arts teacher with a good reputation.
That means the gun is very close to my body, and so is person's gun hand/arm.
Look at something behind him. Pretend to stare at it in terror. He will probably look around just for a second to see what it is. Swing yourself so you are directly in front of him and the gun is in front of both of you. Use your arms to clasp his arms so that he cannot swing it around. Grasp his wrist right below the little bone where there is a pressure point. Squeeze hard and he might drop the gun. That pressure point is very painful.
It sounds easy, but NO, it takes a lot of practice and a cool mind. You can never be sure you will be able to execute the moves in the right order. You must practice with a partner or a martial arts teacher with a good reputation.
cassandrasdaddy
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gave the nice young man my wallet and help my breath to see what the 2 of them would do next. prayed and watched his eyes. if i thought he was gonna shoot me i was gonna give it a try i didn't think the kid would. though in many ways a kid is ther scariest. i guessed right that time one thing i've learned since then is not to confuse being lucky with being skillfull coulda gone the other way and for what its worth its true what they say about how big a 12 gauge looks from that end
marriedguy1
Member
Originally Posted by Doc2005
Has anyone here actually yet faced a pistol (firearm)?
I was in a convenience store getting some drinks and when I turned around there was a kid up front robbing the place. When he saw me and the other guy in the back he pointed the gun at us and told us to some up front. When he turned around the clerk cold cocked him with a big azz bottle of cheap wine. Kid dropped in a heap and I realized then, that I was unaware and unprepared to defend myself. I have worked to rectify that mistake ever since.
As a side note my wife was outside in the car parked by the door and watched the whole thing go down. Other store employee came from the back and dove on top of the KOd kid and duct taped him up. In his condition he was not going to be bothering anybody for a few hours.
Ah to actually answer the question though, I pooped my pants when the gun was pointed at the clerk and then pooped them again when the clerk KOd him. I am not proud of that reaction, but I have tried to learn from it. Always wear a diaper is what I learned.
Has anyone here actually yet faced a pistol (firearm)?
I was in a convenience store getting some drinks and when I turned around there was a kid up front robbing the place. When he saw me and the other guy in the back he pointed the gun at us and told us to some up front. When he turned around the clerk cold cocked him with a big azz bottle of cheap wine. Kid dropped in a heap and I realized then, that I was unaware and unprepared to defend myself. I have worked to rectify that mistake ever since.
As a side note my wife was outside in the car parked by the door and watched the whole thing go down. Other store employee came from the back and dove on top of the KOd kid and duct taped him up. In his condition he was not going to be bothering anybody for a few hours.
Ah to actually answer the question though, I pooped my pants when the gun was pointed at the clerk and then pooped them again when the clerk KOd him. I am not proud of that reaction, but I have tried to learn from it. Always wear a diaper is what I learned.
brownie0486
Member
Its important to remember that these things are continually developing.. in the process of presenting the wallet (or whatever) you could find that opportunity to do something more proactive.
Thereby giving the perp more time to make a mistake and fire the weapon even unintentionally. No thanks.
the variables are almost limitless.
The only variable is to get the muzzle off your person as soon as possible and not hesitate, everything else puts you at further risk.
Has anyone here actually yet faced a pistol (firearm)? You see, if you want a reliable answer, you should ask of those who have looked down the muzzle, "How did you react?" There is a big difference.
Yes, a few times, once in California in January 1984 while on an EP assignment. It was taken away immediately without hesitation [ just like the mentors trained us ]. He was then arrested by LA County Deputy Sheriffs. Had to fly back out to LA to tesitfy some 3 years later on that matter.
Rachen,
I would sugggest a different set of skills for disarms if it takes you longer than 2 minutes to learn the skill. Keep it simple, it's easy to learn and reproduceable.
Brownie
Thereby giving the perp more time to make a mistake and fire the weapon even unintentionally. No thanks.
the variables are almost limitless.
The only variable is to get the muzzle off your person as soon as possible and not hesitate, everything else puts you at further risk.
Has anyone here actually yet faced a pistol (firearm)? You see, if you want a reliable answer, you should ask of those who have looked down the muzzle, "How did you react?" There is a big difference.
Yes, a few times, once in California in January 1984 while on an EP assignment. It was taken away immediately without hesitation [ just like the mentors trained us ]. He was then arrested by LA County Deputy Sheriffs. Had to fly back out to LA to tesitfy some 3 years later on that matter.
Rachen,
I would sugggest a different set of skills for disarms if it takes you longer than 2 minutes to learn the skill. Keep it simple, it's easy to learn and reproduceable.
Brownie
easyg
Member
No, I did not have a gun "in my face", but I have had a firearm aimed at me from about thirty feet away.
I ran like hell.
And when I heard the gunshot behind me, I ran even faster.
I don't know if the shot was aimed at me or just into the ground to scare me.
But I didn't go back to find out!
psychophipps
Member
The one time I had a gun in my face I was more ticked off than anything during the whole thing. I mean, really. Who mugs two scrubby early 20s guys in metal t-shirts? Upon finding out that my friend and I had had just blown the last of our cash on a fresh-made pizza from our favorite place, he took that instead. I guess even junkies get hungry...
Now? I'd probably just shove it aside while grasping his gun hand for possible future use and give him a good spear hand in the throat with my free hand. Depending on his reaction, I'd see how it would go down from there.
Yes, I carry a firearm but I've done the unarmed arts for a lot longer. No point in thinking that my first reaction would be to draw down on him.
Now? I'd probably just shove it aside while grasping his gun hand for possible future use and give him a good spear hand in the throat with my free hand. Depending on his reaction, I'd see how it would go down from there.
Yes, I carry a firearm but I've done the unarmed arts for a lot longer. No point in thinking that my first reaction would be to draw down on him.
Here is a short video of the krav maga technique.
disclaimer: this is just to show you what can be done if trained and practiced, and if you intend to do it, you should get some in person training, and practice it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUlc1W95nDU
Here's another one, slightly different
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZtRmnly_sU
Another
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1tvk6r2DXY&feature=related
disclaimer: this is just to show you what can be done if trained and practiced, and if you intend to do it, you should get some in person training, and practice it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUlc1W95nDU
Here's another one, slightly different
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZtRmnly_sU
Another
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1tvk6r2DXY&feature=related
answerguy
Member
Brownie0486,
While that is an impressive video, the bad guy (played by the cop) still has the gun in his hand and his hand is free. Seems like a potential problem there.
cracked butt
Member
Nothing is guaranteed, no matter what course of action you take.
Food for thought:
A few years ago, a Federal Agent who lived in Milwaukee stopped at a convenience store to get some gas. He was held up at gunpoint by two young diversities looking for some quick cash. One held the gun while the other searched the Agent's pockets. The Agent tried to play real cool and complied, when the guy was going through his pockets found a gun, he shouted "gun!" to his friend who then plugged the Agent full of holes. The victim did not live long enough to make it to the hospital.
Food for thought:
A few years ago, a Federal Agent who lived in Milwaukee stopped at a convenience store to get some gas. He was held up at gunpoint by two young diversities looking for some quick cash. One held the gun while the other searched the Agent's pockets. The Agent tried to play real cool and complied, when the guy was going through his pockets found a gun, he shouted "gun!" to his friend who then plugged the Agent full of holes. The victim did not live long enough to make it to the hospital.
sacp81170a
Member
I gotta go with strambo and Rob on this one. Talk, use verbal skills to distract, and when the opportunity presents itself try H2H or a disarm. In the hand to hand arena, deadly force techniques are the ones to use. If you wind up with an eyeball in your hand or your fingers together at the back of his crushed windpipe, you did it right. brownie is correct in that action beats reaction, but the circumstances are so vague that definite courses of action can't be dictated. The one skill you must develop is that intensity of focus that allows you to spot your split second window of opportunity. If the BG isn't so polite as to hand you his gun by putting it in contact with your body so you can perform your disarm, you're going to have know when you can make your move. That skill comes from practice.
In any case, you never comply with any demands that put you in a position of even more disadvantage. Never go to your knees or the ground or with your attacker somewhere else. Other options that come to mind include faking an asthma attack, a heart attack, etc. Anything to distract him and throw him off his pre-rehearsed track. Let's face it, if you find yourself in this situation, you've already screwed up royally.
In any case, you never comply with any demands that put you in a position of even more disadvantage. Never go to your knees or the ground or with your attacker somewhere else. Other options that come to mind include faking an asthma attack, a heart attack, etc. Anything to distract him and throw him off his pre-rehearsed track. Let's face it, if you find yourself in this situation, you've already screwed up royally.
Sistema1927
Member
It depends.
If all that he wants is my wallet, he is going to get a drop wallet.
If he wants to take me somewhere, put me in a walk-in freezer, or the trunk of a car, etc. then he is going to get the fight of his life.
If all that he wants is my wallet, he is going to get a drop wallet.
If he wants to take me somewhere, put me in a walk-in freezer, or the trunk of a car, etc. then he is going to get the fight of his life.
brownie0486
Member
answerguy,
There are two variations to the technique. In post 13 of that thread, he's on his butt immediately and thats all that was showing, that he could not fire on me [ I'm safe from taking incoming ] and he was controlled from further struggle for it by being placed on the ground on his back.
If I wanted the gun, it's easily seen I could have it [ and before he hits the ground ], but in the drill there, I don't want to take the chance of breaking the officers wrist or fingers in the demonstration.
If you were referring to the first vid on that thread [ the cop in uniform ], that was only the first part [ the body moving offline ] of the skill set. We were using a revo, that short clip was the third attempt of the 5 we filmed from the front. The first two disarms he could not pull the trigger due to my hand engulfing the cylinder in the grab.
Obviously I wouldn't be just standing there after the initial move was executed as well, letting his hand swing free and still have control of the weapon in the real world. We were using .38 blanks that day as well as I often do with students. They don't get the blanks put on them, but they can use them on me.
Is it dangerous to use blanks? The very scenario is dangerous in the real world, better get used to it.
There's another one thats one or two handed where the gun is stripped from his hand as in LKB3rd's Krav youtube video and you don't have to take them to the ground which is the one I used when I mentioned the Ca. incident in an earlier post.
LKB3rd,
Thats a close variation of the skills the mentors gave us. That'll work. I like to get the body off line a little faster, and that video shows the disarmer with his hands at the guns height, which may or may not be realistic to expect where in the clip I provided the link to, my hands are at my side.
Brownie
There are two variations to the technique. In post 13 of that thread, he's on his butt immediately and thats all that was showing, that he could not fire on me [ I'm safe from taking incoming ] and he was controlled from further struggle for it by being placed on the ground on his back.
If I wanted the gun, it's easily seen I could have it [ and before he hits the ground ], but in the drill there, I don't want to take the chance of breaking the officers wrist or fingers in the demonstration.
If you were referring to the first vid on that thread [ the cop in uniform ], that was only the first part [ the body moving offline ] of the skill set. We were using a revo, that short clip was the third attempt of the 5 we filmed from the front. The first two disarms he could not pull the trigger due to my hand engulfing the cylinder in the grab.
Obviously I wouldn't be just standing there after the initial move was executed as well, letting his hand swing free and still have control of the weapon in the real world. We were using .38 blanks that day as well as I often do with students. They don't get the blanks put on them, but they can use them on me.
Is it dangerous to use blanks? The very scenario is dangerous in the real world, better get used to it.
There's another one thats one or two handed where the gun is stripped from his hand as in LKB3rd's Krav youtube video and you don't have to take them to the ground which is the one I used when I mentioned the Ca. incident in an earlier post.
LKB3rd,
Thats a close variation of the skills the mentors gave us. That'll work. I like to get the body off line a little faster, and that video shows the disarmer with his hands at the guns height, which may or may not be realistic to expect where in the clip I provided the link to, my hands are at my side.
Brownie
brownie0486
Member
Sistema1927,
I don't carry a drop wallet, let alone a primary wallet.
Again, the length of time the gun is muzzling you is the length of time you could be shot. No thank you. I'll rely on my skills to control the environ over their generousity every time.
Brownie
I don't carry a drop wallet, let alone a primary wallet.
Again, the length of time the gun is muzzling you is the length of time you could be shot. No thank you. I'll rely on my skills to control the environ over their generousity every time.
Brownie
collateral
Member
Depends, are you sure you can move your arm however many feet to grab the gun faster than he can pull his finger maybe an inch? Are you willing to stake your life on that?
I don't know what I would do in that situation, and I pray to God that I'm never in that situation.
hahahahahahahahaha
I don't know what I would do in that situation, and I pray to God that I'm never in that situation.
hahahahahahahahaha
The Unknown User
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There are ways to isolate their field of fire by using the human body against the attacker.
For example: you are right-handed, and are confronted by a right-handed aggressor. Your aggressor holds his firearm with one hand.
If you step to his right while attempting to gain wrist control with your weak-side hand, you've effectively isolated his body. He can't hit you with his left side limbs, and you've stepped outside the ideal area where he can do anything with his right-side limbs.
1. Step to the outside
2. Wrist control
3. Do what you have to do, and call the police immediately.
For example: you are right-handed, and are confronted by a right-handed aggressor. Your aggressor holds his firearm with one hand.
If you step to his right while attempting to gain wrist control with your weak-side hand, you've effectively isolated his body. He can't hit you with his left side limbs, and you've stepped outside the ideal area where he can do anything with his right-side limbs.
1. Step to the outside
2. Wrist control
3. Do what you have to do, and call the police immediately.
WAshooter
Member
Personally if someone sticks a gun in my face, I feel they have a very strong death wish, and I am going to kill them. I don't plan to get killed siting around with my thumb up my @$$. If they have made the decision to point a gun at you it is reasonable to believe that they plan to use it.
brownie0486
Member
Depends, are you sure you can move your arm however many feet to grab the gun faster than he can pull his finger maybe an inch? Yes, I'm sure
Are you willing to stake your life on that?
I'm not staking my life on anything in controlling what happens by making the move, I'm only staking my life at all if I alow him to muzzle me with the weapon any longer than it takes to make the move to take it away from him.
I don't know what I would do in that situation
You are likely in the majority, don't do anything if you don't have the training, but you suffer your fate at HIS whims, not your ability to control your own destiny.
If they have made the decision to point a gun at you it is reasonable to believe that they plan to use it.
Maybe, but more people are going to point a gun at you looking to control you and get what they want than to use it against you. Most would rather prefer to not draw any more attention to themselves than necessary, especially if in public like a WalMart lot, etc.
Brownie
Are you willing to stake your life on that?
I'm not staking my life on anything in controlling what happens by making the move, I'm only staking my life at all if I alow him to muzzle me with the weapon any longer than it takes to make the move to take it away from him.
I don't know what I would do in that situation
You are likely in the majority, don't do anything if you don't have the training, but you suffer your fate at HIS whims, not your ability to control your own destiny.
If they have made the decision to point a gun at you it is reasonable to believe that they plan to use it.
Maybe, but more people are going to point a gun at you looking to control you and get what they want than to use it against you. Most would rather prefer to not draw any more attention to themselves than necessary, especially if in public like a WalMart lot, etc.
Brownie
CrawdaddyJim
Member
It works. They are focused on you. Not your hands.
They expect submission and compliance.
When you become aggressive and proactive they first have to see you moving then their brain has to process that information and send a response stimulous to the muscles controlling the fingers. During a scenario as descibed the attacker is in fight or flight mode and as such his fine motor skills are degraded just like yours if you don't possess adequate training and a proper mindset.
Mindset is your most potent weapon. Second is your muscle memory skillset.
In post interviews that I have been involved in the attacker was in a state of disbelief. Could not understand how it all went down as his awareness level was narrowly focused on the victim. And his preconceived notion of how it usually goes down.
If it is the perps first time he will remember more because he is not so narrowly focused.
They expect submission and compliance.
When you become aggressive and proactive they first have to see you moving then their brain has to process that information and send a response stimulous to the muscles controlling the fingers. During a scenario as descibed the attacker is in fight or flight mode and as such his fine motor skills are degraded just like yours if you don't possess adequate training and a proper mindset.
Mindset is your most potent weapon. Second is your muscle memory skillset.
In post interviews that I have been involved in the attacker was in a state of disbelief. Could not understand how it all went down as his awareness level was narrowly focused on the victim. And his preconceived notion of how it usually goes down.
If it is the perps first time he will remember more because he is not so narrowly focused.
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