Do I need a .45GAP?

[cfullgraf]

I thought one of the reasons that 45 GAP was introduced was to provide citizens in countries that restrict usage of military cartridges performance similar to 45 ACP.

Not an issue here in the United States.

 

[JohnKSa]

Bottom line is it hasn't caught on and is languishing.

Yes, that much is certainly true.

 

[Archie]

"Need"?

Other than the circumstance of being forbidden by law to own or possess a pistol in .45 ACP (or nothing else available for some insurmountable reason) one needs a .45 GAP in direct proportion to the need for a frontal lobotomy.

Other than a marketing device by Glock - and not a very good one at that - is has never served a real purpose. Someone compared it to the .40 S&W round. Such a comparison is not valid; the .40 S&W offered a reasonable diameter bullet with recoil reduced from the parent 10mm. The .45 GAP, firing the equivalent of a .45 ACP +p in a lighter, smaller pistol produces more recoil.

Just for the record, to fire the same weight bullet at the same velocity with a smaller chamber requires the smaller cartridge to operate at higher pressure. Which in turn accelerates wear and breakage.

 

[zoom6zoom]

I always figured the main reason was that Glock wanted a cartridge with it's name on it, like Colt, S&W and others have long had.

 

[el Godfather]

Good points John!

From all the reading in this thread I have found it most useful that .45 GAP produces a .45 ACP +P level of power from a 9mm sized pistol. AND one is using/buying off the shelf loads not specifically shopping for +Ps which can be difficult at times. Very Interesting!

This is very important and most certainly a niche in my opinion for those who found Glock 21 or other double stacked 45s ungodly 2x4 bricks!

I liked .45 since childhood, but always found it difficult to justify in my circumstances to have a .45 that can be my primary SD weapon for two reasons. 1. Low capacity, or 2. Thick brick like size of double stacked ones. So, even .45 remained part of small handgun collection, it never became my mainstream gun for aforementioned reasons.

That said, if ammo availability wasn't a problem, I believe I am willing to give Mr. 37 Glock a chance since I dont mind handling a stiff recoil as some stated.

Whats your take on this?

 

[ugaarguy]

.45 GAP produces a .45 ACP +P level of power from a 9mm sized pistol.

That's from a Glock 9mm sized pistol. The biggest of the group holds 10 rounds. The Springfield XD-45 is the same size as a Glock 17 or 37 , and holds 13 rounds of .45 ACP. The Ruger SR-9 is smaller than a Glock 17 and holds the same 17 rounds of 9mm.

If Glock would end their silly fascination with thick plastic walled mags with metal liners they could offer better capacity for the size. MagPul and Lancer could teach them a lesson in plastic and plastic metal hybrid mags, respectively.

OTOH, their 9mm and .40 S&W pistols work very well, and they aren't expensive. So, Glock does quite a bit right.

 

[Dan-O]

Do you actually buy any of these guns you start threads about, or more notoriously start polls on?

 

[Jim K]

Some folks are into collecting guns that didn't go anywhere and are not likely to do so. If you are one of those, buy up .45 GAP pistols. No gain in your lifetime, but maybe your descendants will profit.

Jim

 

[Zaydok Allen]

You may need one. I sure don't.

 

[el Godfather]

Do you actually buy any of these guns you start threads about, or more notoriously start polls on?

Ask me such questions in pvt. Keeps threads clean for the topic. Sit on your hands and do nothing and that may be more fun and knowledgeable. Not every question asked should end up with a purchase. So far after consulting the forum in past year or so I have bought or replaced the following: Colt Delta Elite, H&K USP 45, Glock 23, DE 357, DW Havok, DW Vbob, sig 226 Elite, sw 629, usp 9, p30, Springfield 1911, placed order for a few as i have to pay high custom duty and need paperwork for clearing, and many more. Thank you helpful forum friends for valuable advices. I dont mind an odd ball below the belt punches now and then in exchange for the wonderful advices and expert opinions.

I know it's internet, but if you know your hobby you can easily comb out the info you want and tell expert opinion from hot air.

 

[ugaarguy]

el Godfather, that's awesome that you've added / are in the process of adding all of those pistols to your collection.

On the topic you started this thread with, I don't see a practical need for a .45 GAP pistol. On the other hand, you can clearly afford one without causing yourself any financial strain, so why not get one? If you like the idea of the cartridge and you like Glock pistols go for it. The cartridge should perform just fine for any practical uses. Sometimes just wanting something you like that's not main stream is reason enough to buy it.

 

[JRWhit]

O.K. I'm all for the Buy It category.

Problems I have,

I liked .45 since childhood, but always found it difficult to justify in my circumstances to have a .45 that can be my primary SD weapon for two reasons. 1. Low capacity, or 2. Thick brick like size of double stacked ones. So, even .45 remained part of small handgun collection, it never became my mainstream gun for aforementioned reasons.

Based on this the Gap is not going to fill this need. The highest capacity offered by Glock for the gap is 11. The 21 offers 13 in acp. The difference in grip width is 2mm. Again I have no idea why they can find an extra 2mm in the gap that they can't in the ACP, but perhaps it explains the reduced capacity. This straight from the spec sheet on Glocks website.
I'm all for you getting a Gap if you express a desire,but I don't want to see it happen on false information.

 

[bikerdoc]

In the words of Col Cooper, "It is a solution to a non existent problem.

My LGS does not stock it.

 

[HexHead]

I don't need one, but a G39 is on the very short list of handguns I'd still like to get. With a 200gr bullet, it will equal or exceed the performance of 200gr .45acp. The 39 is essentially the same size as my G26, and seems the perfect replacement for the Colt New Agent I used to carry.
I can't remember the last time I bought a box of handgun ammo from a store, so it's availability is a non-issue to me.

It would also give me another division I could shoot in at GSSF matches, Major-Sub. As a matter of fact, it's not at all uncommon to see GAPs being used at GSSF matches, in both that and the Heavy Metal division.

 

[HOOfan_1]

From all the reading in this thread I have found it most useful that .45 GAP produces a .45 ACP +P level of power from a 9mm sized pistol.

Really????

Most of the stuff posted in this thread seems to indicate to me that it produced a bit less than standard .45 ACP performance, with the pressure of +P.

 

[David E]

Really????

Most of the stuff posted in this thread seems to indicate to me that it produced a bit less than standard .45 ACP performance, with the pressure of +P.

You are correct.

+P loads of the .45 acp seriously outdistance any GAP loading.

 

[mr.trooper]

There surely IS a niche the GAP fills that nobody here has mentioned yet.

PRICE! A nearly new G38 is the cheapest Glock out there - period.

I saw one listed locally, with only 100 rounds down the tube, for $600 OBO - with a Galco holster and 300 rounds of Remington golden sabers. Other adds were running around $400 for the pistol new in box, with a box or two of ammo.

Compared to any other caliber lightly used Glock, that is 200 rounds of premium hollow points for free.

Look into it - if your just looking for a convenient 45 cal carry gun, you could potentially score a Glock and a pile of carry ammo for a very fair price.

 

[VA27]

I would have a 45GAP right now if Kahr had chambered it in their Mk/PM sized guns, or Kimber their Solo. A true pocket 45 would sell, I think. The same guns in 5.7X28 would sell, too.

 

[el Godfather]

Really????

Most of the stuff posted in this thread seems to indicate to me that it produced a bit less than standard .45 ACP performance, with the pressure of +P.

Read John's post.

I am no expert merely stating what I read. I were an expert on GAP I would not be posing this question.

So to be clear: is it or is it not equal to +P .45acp?

 

[2wheels]

Read John's post.

I am no expert merely stating what I read. I were an expert on GAP I would not be posing this question.

So to be clear: is it or is it not equal to +P .45acp?

I believe John said that it equals or slightly exceeds standard .45ACP performance. Not that it equals or exceeds +P performance, which afaik it does not.

 

[el Godfather]

Other than the circumstance of being forbidden by law to own or possess a pistol in .45 ACP (or nothing else available for some insurmountable reason) one needs a .45 GAP in direct proportion to the need for a frontal lobotomy.

Other than a marketing device by Glock - and not a very good one at that - is has never served a real purpose. Someone compared it to the .40 S&W round. Such a comparison is not valid; the .40 S&W offered a reasonable diameter bullet with recoil reduced from the parent 10mm. The .45 GAP, firing the equivalent of a .45 ACP +p in a lighter, smaller pistol produces more recoil.

Just for the record, to fire the same weight bullet at the same velocity with a smaller chamber requires the smaller cartridge to operate at higher pressure. Which in turn accelerates wear and breakage.

Sorry it was not John but Archie.

 

[HOOfan_1]

Sorry it was not John but Archie.

When he said firing the equivalent of .45 ACP +P, I believe he meant pressure wise and not velocity wise. With a smaller case than the .45 ACP, the GAP has to have higher pressures in order to get similar velocities to standard pressure .45 ACP.

.45 ACP Max average pressure is 21K PSI
.45 ACP +P and .45 GAP max average pressure are 23K PSI

 

[Sam1911]

What niche .45 GAP covers that is left out by the other calibers out there?

An extremely narrow one wherein someone feels the requirement for a) .45ACP, b) a Glock, not some other more svelte design, and c) "normal" grip size.

A .45 GAP doesn't do anything any better than any number of other standard handgun cartridges. A Glock is a fine handgun, but other designs have made the grip size issue disappear, even for .45 ACP guns.

What SD/HD scenarios call for a need to have .45GAP?

Absolutely none, at all.

Defensive shooting does not require any specific cartridge. It doesn't require a particularly powerful cartridge, or one of any substantial diameter.

What it requires is a gun and cartridge combination that YOU shoot well -- shoot BEST in fact. What gun do you practice with the most? What can you shoot accurately and make well-placed hits with at the greatest speed?

A new nifty gun doesn't answer that need. If you're shooting for your life and the lives of your family you need a gun that you can perform the very best with. Maybe that's a certain 9mm, maybe that's a 1911 in .45ACP. Maybe that's a SIG in .40 S&W. I don't know, but you owe it to yourself to find out.

If defensive shooting is a real likelihood in your life (and it sounds as though it may indeed be) then don't go looking for more guns that are just a little more perfect. Look to training yourself to use A gun, or a family of guns, at the highest proficiency level you are able to attain. Get training. Practice rigorously. Don't buy a .45GAP because it's going to protect you better than some other gun. It can't.

Or, if you decide that's just what you must have, fine. Buy one. It won't work any worse than any other service sidearm. But DO buy that 20-50,000 rounds to go along with it and start training and practicing with it like your life depends on it.

Is it a little better than .45ACP? Is it a little worse than .45ACP +P? Is it a bit like .40 S&W, but not quite 10mm? Is it almost as good as having a .32 ACP machine pistol?

Bah! Makes no difference. Just go shoot! YOU will be the deciding factor in your gun fight. Not which gun you choose.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

PRICE! A nearly new G38 is the cheapest Glock out there - period.

I saw one listed locally, with only 100 rounds down the tube, for $600 OBO - with a Galco holster and 300 rounds of Remington golden sabers. Other adds were running around $400 for the pistol new in box, with a box or two of ammo.

I picked one up from a forum member who was simplifying his financial life -- due to job changes. I paid $350 for an UNFIRED, NEW Glock 38. It's a nice gun.

 

[dogtown tom]

mr.trooper There surely IS a niche the GAP fills that nobody here has mentioned yet.

PRICE! A nearly new G38 is the cheapest Glock out there - period.

True..........and stop for a second and think why that might be.
(The .45GAP's are the worst selling Glock models ever)