Do you OC or CC and why

[mljdeckard]

I'm with Beatledog. I think it requires imaginative thought process to say that if a bad guy sees a gun, it will make them WANT to attack you. No, nothing is for sure, and bad guys aren't necessarily rational, but all I know is that if I were planning a crime, and I walked into someone with a gun, I would postpone or change the plan. And no, there is absolutely no definitive data of any kind to say that one has any advantage over the other. Personally, I think that a lot of the sentiment against OC comes from states where it isn't allowed. When you aren't allowed to do something, and you are grateful for the level of freedom you have, you seek to justify and rationalize it. What the heck do I know?

I open carry when I am doing outdoor things in outdoor places with outdoor people. If I am out camping, I wear it in a chest holster. If my anti sister-in-law will be there, I conceal it. If I am on my way out to the desert to ride ATVs, and I stop for gas in a small town, I won't bother to take it off. I have seen other people OC in more suburban areas, and it is very rare that anyone says anything at all. (I discuss this on a local forum.) But if I am in downtown SLC, I don't see the need to get attention from people who are normally oblivious, and give people who theretofore had no reason to care a reason to care. The biggest factor in the progress we have made in Utah is that most of these people don't care enough to show up. Why should I give them a reason?

 

[mr.trooper]

I have done both on many disparate occasions. It depends on where I am going, and what gun I have on me / what my whims are at the time.

 

[beatledog7]

People who happen onto THR won't necessarily use the search function to study the CC/OC debate. There's no single right answer to the question, and it isn't necessary to find one. What matters is to keep it in view so that we can all remember why it's important that we understand why we'd want to choose one over the other.

One aspect that never gets much air time is the OCing uniformed LEO aspect. It is not open and shut why LEOs wear a uniform unless it's to provide deterrence. Sure, they can easily pick each other out if they're uniformed, but so can everyone else. What about those who are in plain clothes and the possibility of someone who's not a LEO wearing a LEO's uniform?

I for one believe that there is deterrence value in OCing, and that this evidenced by all those LEOs. Feel free to differ, but if you proffer the "bad guy will shoot the OCer first" argument, please provide some evidence.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by mljdeckard: No, nothing is for sure, and bad guys aren't necessarily rational, but all I know is that if I were planning a crime, and I walked into someone with a gun, I would postpone or change the plan.

Makes sense. So would I.

But if your accomplice hasn't seen him and starts the action, you cannot do that.

The other risk is that of the open carrier happening to walk in on a crime in progress and presenting a clear and present danger to the perpetrators.

How likely? Not very.

Posted by beatledog7: Feel free to differ, but if you proffer the "bad guy will shoot the OCer first" argument, please provide some evidence.

A little under six years ago, a man with a gun shot a uniformed policeman, killing him, for the obvious purpose of acquiring his weapon.

He then entered a gun free zone and started shooting. His first target was the uniformed policeman who was on guard. Several victims died.

The whole thing was premeditated.

Obviously, it was not the fact of open carry, but the uniforms of the armed officers, that made them the first targets.

The city attorney survived by throwing chairs at the shooter.

I think that the presence of armed citizens in the meeting might well have saved lives. Would they have been more successful if carrying concealed? There is no way to tell.

 

[gamestalker]

There is no argument form me on this one, OC is the only right way to carry, just kidding.

I personally carry OC most of the time, but it isn't my usual preferred method. The reason I carry OC is because I wear T shirts most of the time during the summer months. Now during the winter months, I CC most of the time, as I can comfortably wear clothing that will conceal it for me.

As for OC, I have had a bad situation in which I almost had my weapon taken from me. But on the other hand, I also feel that OC-ing can function as a deterrent also. It's kind of a catch 2+2 I think, because there are absolute positives, and negatives on both sides of the issue.

GS

 

[DSling]

Most of the time CC. I've got a story about that but for another time and forum. Once in a while I OC to spark a conversation with an anti to convince them to go shooting with me.

Another post tracked by the government.

 

[beatledog7]

Quote:
Posted by beatledog7: Feel free to differ, but if you proffer the "bad guy will shoot the OCer first" argument, please provide some evidence.

A little under six years ago, a man with a gun shot a uniformed policeman, killing him, for the obvious purpose of acquiring his weapon.

One case from six years ago carried out against a LEO rather than a OCing civilian. Pretty weak example.

 

[Resist Evil]

Most of the country, and a great chunk of my state's population, is comprised of liars, thieves, racists, political jihadists, and killers who are very likely to go apoplectic at the sight of any gun not accompanied by a badge and/or a uniform in public.

I carry concealed to avoid causing undue suffering amongst the rabble.

 

[Kleanbore]

One case from six years ago carried out against a LEO rather than a OCing civilian.

Come on, beatle, you introduced the LEO question.

Pretty weak example.

How so?

Use a little common sense, and put yourself in the shoes of a criminal. The man had mass murder in mind. As long as there were openly armed persons present and capable of shooting, uniformed or not, he could be stopped. Easy decision on his part, wouldn't you say?

That gun in the holster deters nothing if the perp can effect a surprise attack.

Now, if the perp is rational and balanced, and if he can wait and select another venue or another time, and if the perp notices the armed person before starting his crime (the uniform helps), and if he would prefer to avoid bloodshed if possible, one would expect said perp to be deterred by an armed citizen.

Too many ifs for me.

He may not be rational. He may be desperate--needing money right now. He may not see the armed citizen until too late. He may not place much value on human life. And if he is sufficiently desperate and has the drop on the armed citizen, it's all over.

Or--he may really, really need one more firearm right away.

 

[beatledog7]

So, the guy is purposely seeking to grab a gun. He sees a uniformed LEO, who stands out like a spots on a pinto, and immediately knows there'll be a pistol. Every cop in uniform carries a pistol, so it's dead nuts.

He sees me or you in street clothes, and assuming he even pays any attention to us, which he would be if he's looking for a gun, he still might completely miss that we're carrying. We read all the time about folks OCing and people right next to them not even noticing. That's been my experience.

And in the case you described, if several people were wearing a pistol openly, wouldn't the guy have made a different decision?

Can anyone cite a case where a civilian OCer had is or her gun snatched? There may be a few, but the risk of that, just as the risk of being targeted for assassination, is overblown.

 

[481]

Do you OC or CC and why?

I OC and CC.

Where I am, who I am with, what I am doing, they all go towards dictating which mode I will employ.

 

[allaroundhunter]

I had someone try to grab my gun out of my holster when I was OCing. Didn't go too well for them, but they still tried.

There isn't a paper trail of a report of it, so whether you believe it or not it entirely up to you.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by beatledog7: He sees me or you in street clothes, and assuming he even pays any attention to us, which he would be if he's looking for a gun, he still might completely miss that we're carrying. We read all the time about folks OCing and people right next to them not even noticing. That's been my experience.

I agree.

Yet some would argue that that unnoticed firearm somehow has a deterrent effect.

And in the case you described, if several people were wearing a pistol openly, wouldn't the guy have made a different decision?

If he had "completely missed" what the citizens were carrying, probably not, don't you think?

Can anyone cite a case where a civilian OCer had is or her gun snatched? There may be a few, but the risk of that, just as the risk of being targeted for assassination, is overblown.

Yes, we have seen examples here. Usually occurs when the perp is standing behind the armed citizen in line.

I cannot assess the risk, but common sense tells one that it is unquestionably higher for the open carrier than for one who carries concealed.

 

[W.E.G.]

Rarely OC.

Usually CC.

Some folks like attention. Other folks don't want it.

Its not complicated.

 

[beatledog7]

In a crowded venue, one or two OCers disappear. But it would be different with a whole bunch of OCers.

Lest we go around in circles, I accept that some people are solidly against OC, and they have their reasons.

 

[Kleanbore]

I, for one, am not "solidly against OC".

I would really like to be able to carry a good sized revolver, single action or DA, openly in appropriate circumstances when the occasion presents itself. I like them and I always have, and I would like to be able to carry them

I would like to not worry about the effectiveness of my concealment.

But when it is practical to conceal my firearm, I find that practice preferable. Being unnoticed has some very real advantages,whether it relates to the carrying of firearms, watches, or expensive photo equipment, or to the possession of Superbowl tickets or cash--you name it.

 

[Sauer Grapes]

Disadvantage? Everyone can see it! If that doesn't bother you, go forth young man. Frankly, most people don't even notice or care about it. Shhhh, the sheeple are napping.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Rarely OC.

Usually CC.

Some folks like attention. Other folks don't want it.

Its not complicated.

I am generally a pretty social person, does that mean that I "like attention?" I open carry 99% of the time because in my location I feel that is the most effective means of protecting myself and my family with my gun. During my everyday travels with a gun in full sight on my belt (I open carry a Taurus SS .45 in a Fobus paddle holster, the gun is very visible, it's just the holster that I prefer the fit and ride of) 99% of the public never provides any indication that they even notice the gun.

Of the maybe 1% of the public that does provide an indication that they have noticed my gun - 75% of those people are either positive towards it (thumbs up, glad to see someone carrying...something like that) or ask genuine questions and leave more educated than when they asked me whatever question they asked me. Yes, I do like the opportunity to provide a positive image of Joe Citizen who cares enough about himself and his family to provide for their safety.

Now, here is the really sad part. Of the 25% of the 1% of people who notice the gun who are visibly/vocally against the gun, 4 out of 5 of those negative reactions, and by far the most vehemently negative reactions, comes from people who can't resist the urge to tell me that they have a CPL, they carry their gun concealed, and so should I.

I've open carried in such places as city council meetings, state offices for driver's license, county offices for vehicle registrations, downtown Seattle, and SEATAC International Airport.

 

[happygeek]

Out of morbid curiosity, have you OCed in IKEA? The first couple times I went there I didn't even notice their ghost busters sign, and the first time I did notice the sign I didn't feel like walking back to the car and knew it didn't carry the force of law anyway (part of why the CSGV hyperventilating about Starbucks is so nonsensical in WA).

Personally, when I carry I CC poorly. Being in a state where OC is perfectly legal and the gun free zones [that carry the force of law] are few and pretty clearly defined works well for that method.

 

[Water-Man]

Both, because I can.

 

[Cee Zee]

I have worn an empty military-style flap holster to work just to see if anybody noticed -- the top part was covered by my shirt but the bottom was definitely not. Nobody saw it.

I'm guessing what I'm about to say is actually original on this subject on this board. Friend I probably don't have a lot of ladies looking down that way these days but at one time I did. It's not that I'm some super stud or something but I grew up in the era of short basketball shorts and cut off t-shirts for guys. If you had a pulse (and you were of the female design) you would likely have noticed if I was carrying an extra package. I will say that when I was in high school playing sports and lifting weights all the time that my form was fairly warm or at least I was told as much more than a few times. I'm just saying that some people will definitely draw more looks in that department than others. If you have those washboard abs and cut thighs you will have women checking you out. It ain't just me guys. Women will check you out more than they let on sometimes. Sometimes they don't make no bones about it. Heck even in my 30's when I was riding my bike every day I had women trying to flag me down for some attention. Now, not so much. Not for a long, long time. But even now I still catch some of them sneaking a peek. Don't assume no one will be looking because they very well could be.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Out of morbid curiosity, have you OCed in IKEA? The first couple times I went there I didn't even notice their ghost busters sign, and the first time I did notice the sign I didn't feel like walking back to the car and knew it didn't carry the force of law anyway (part of why the CSGV hyperventilating about Starbucks is so nonsensical in WA).

Personally, when I carry I CC poorly. Being in a state where OC is perfectly legal and the gun free zones [that carry the force of law] are few and pretty clearly defined works well for that method.

I don't think I have even been in IKEA. The difference between my open carry and my concealed carry is if my shirt is tucked in behind the gun, or flipped over the gun. Same gun, same holster, normally same shirt.

OH... I've also open carried in both Oak Harbor and Stanwood theaters for movies too. I went past the ticket taker once in Stanwood and I heard someone behing me say, "That guy had a gun." Ticket taker said, "Who?" Anonymous said, "That guy right there!" That was the end of it. I didn't hear or see anything else about it.

 

[Nar]

I don't know what you consider "skinny" I am 6 ft and 175 and i can carry my p226 fine under just a t-shirt on a OWB holster. That said both here in NH open carry is always legal and concealed is with a permit so i make little effort to hide it aside from not wanting to cause a ruckus. I find most people don't look too hard.

 

[303tom]

BOTH, because I can !..................

 

[Flfiremedic]

After my wife's recent bad encounter with two pits...and several range sessions, she wants me to either come up with a way for her to CC her 20ga youth 11/87, or let her OC it.