Racking a pump shotgun, or other alerts

[hardheart]

There seems to be a fair amount of criticism about doing this. I can see questioning why the round was not chambered, though this happens with other platforms and is based on individual choice and circumstance. I don't quite follow the admonishments of not wanting to let the possible bad guy(s) know you are armed. Why would you not want someone to know you are armed, but please only under the general situation I post here. There are going to be a few reasons, I would just like to run them down and get some opinions. I can't say anyone is right or wrong, I do not have any authority to do so. I would just like to read opinions, and see if they influence/alter my own.

I don't think you should be in full view of someone while working the pump unless you are going to then pull the trigger. I would like to ignore that scenario, because that is also not the one most often brought up. It seems to be mentioned more often that one may make the distinctive sound from inside their house while someone is doing something from the outside. Or, separated by rooms. Either way the two sides don't see each other.

If the intruder is not yet a home intruder, ie still outside your home, then what are the reasons to not rack? Are they also reasons to train the dog to not bark, but nudge your leg with its nose? Are they reasons to not yell out "I'm calling the police, get off my property!"? Are they reasons to have the motion detector tied to a vibrating motor on your bed instead of on an outside light? Are they reasons to not put the alarm company sticker on your windows? As you can see, I am asking what the difference is in one 'deterrent' over another when they all notify the intruder just as well as they notify you.

What do you feel your duty is once you have the firearm in hand? Are you to detain and prevent the intruder(s) from leaving your property? Do you feel it necessary to give them the opportunity to break in and to make no actions to stop them? If you have the dog, lights, etc, does it matter what you do with the slide after the dog is barking and the lights are on?

What, if any, are legal requirements by written law or court decision on what a homeowner should do before someone enters the home, they are aware of it, and they have armed themselves? I would like to see how this has been handle in various jurisdictions. I really don't know of a compilation of these cases, or how to get a solid and focused google search for it. This doesn't have to be restricted to the shotgun, just what do the courts say you have to do when something bad may happen and you are aware of it immediately prior to the event. I think most(all?) jurisdictions in the US state that there is no requirement to leave your own home, but do they require the occupant to do anything? Must they alert authorities, make it known they are armed, announce their presence in general? Can anyone draw comparisons to other countries on this?

For room to room, I think the situation has already hit the legal and practical point of already being ready to fire, and racking the slide at that point is too late and should have been done earlier. Not necessarily to scare anyone off, but just that you should already be ready for whatever the encounter will be.

Noisy dog and motion activated light, rounds chambered and safeties on over here (and no kids)

 

[EmbarkChief]

Personally, I'm not going to give away my position just to give the bad guy a chance. The only "warning" a bad guy will get in my house is the big flash of light that comes from discharging a weapon at night.

 

[JustinJ]

What to do is obviously dependent on the situation. If you know somebody is in the house and you are holed up in a bedroom with sights on the entrance door then yelling, "the police are on the way is probably best". If a noise woke you up but you're not able to confirm if it was something or nothing then being silent is best while investigating. Better yet, send the dog in first as it will likely detect and locate an intruder faster than you ever could. A dog can also do so much better in the dark. If you are in the living room and somebody starts kicking in the front door yelling "i have a gun and the police are in route" is probably best but not from directly in front of the door. I certainly would not rack a shotgun in a dark room where i can't see an intruder as it may do nothing but draw blind fire.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

If you want to warn an intruder in your house that they are about to have a personal conversation with their lord and maker, toss and couple of activated chem lights in an area they need to traverse to get to you. The semi-bright will get the point, and you get free target illumination.

Racking the shotgun is properly done after the first round is headed down range, not before.

 

[charliehustle10]

Racking a shotgun to scare someone off your property is a terrible idea. I remember a story from a few years ago if I remember right, in Broward Country, FL. Two thugs were fighting on a street in front of a gentlemen's house, or maybe his driveway. He was a preacher, he went out to break up the fight by racking a slide on his handgun. One of the thugs claimed he thought he was going to get shot so he drew a firearm and shot the preacher who was two steps off his front porch. He wasn't charged....
On another note, I don't feel any responsibility to warn someone who has broken into my home.

 

[Fotno]

Never have seen the sense in it myself... I figure if there's an imminent threat, the shotgun better'd already be charged and ready to go. A real threat ain't owed a warning.

 

[Hit_Factor]

My warnings are verbal, and easy to understand English. I won't rely on bad guys recognizing the sound of a weapon other than a discharge. Tactics that rely on sound recognition are flawed and destined for failure.

If the sound of a pump racking is so darn scary to bad guys someone would be selling a small audio playing fob for your keyring with that sound.

Sent by someone using something.

 

[beatledog7]

I would like to think that I can "warn off" an intruder, but given that he has already broken in, such a warning will not necessarily have the desired effect.

Calling out to the intruder that you are armed, or racking a shotgun or pistol might work, but it will also serve to give away one's position. All things considered, I'll probably (that's because every situation has elements we cannot know in advance) hole up, remain quiet, and wait to see if the perp enters the room where I am or otherwise comes into view. Once he's in my sights, a verbal warning that he's about to feel lead would seem more appropriate. Still, it's situation dependent.

 

[scaatylobo]

"patrol ready"

I keep my 12 bore in what I was trained to do,the position we called patrol ready.

Meaning a full magazine [ tube ] and empty chamber with safety off.

I will 'rack a round' and fully recharge the tube as soon as I feel I am ready for condition orange.

To each their own.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

Lots of questions. I will provide one answer.

"If the intruder is not yet a home intruder, ie still outside your home, then what are the reasons to not rack? "

With little ones in the home, I do not like bullets in the chamber and I want to wait as long as is reasonable possible as it only takes a second (yes, I've trained a fair bit and I understand about waiting too long and how fast folks can move).

If someone is outside and not inside they are not yet a true threat (I can come up with exceptions but you get the drift). If someone is inside the home for certain or I hear a stange sound that truely concerns me then I chamber a round. Before I had kids, I didnt worry as much about a round in the chamber.

Could I end up beign killed by a bad guy becuase someone breaks in and I don't have time to chamber a round? Yes, but I'd rather have that risk slightly increase and the risk of an accidential discharge slightly decreased.

 

[kayak-man]

I think the deference between the other deterrents the OP mentioned and racking the slide are that out of all of those, pumping the gun is the only one that handicaps your ability to deal with a threat. The dog and alarm company sticker are great, but waiting until you are face to face with an intruder to chamber a round means that up until that point, your gun is pretty much empty.

I keep my shotgun in cruiser safe (full tube, chamber empty), but with the safety off. It may not be the safest way to keep the gun, but I'm much more likely to remember to chamber a round than I am to hit the safety (I just don't like the 870's safety). IF I need to grab the gun, I'm chambering a round then. If the guy in my house hears it and leaves, awesome. If not, now I've got a loaded gun....


Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson

 

[2zulu1]

It's a given that in this part of Arizona that home owners own firearms as well. With that in mind;

Warning #1 is posted property,
Warning #2 is a locked door,
Warning #3 is a 98 pound German Shepherd, we're still working on release commands.

With a semi-auto shotgun, there's always a round chambered.

 

[beatledog7]

...shotgun in cruiser safe (full tube, chamber empty), but with the safety off

This has been advocated before, and it makes sense for anyone who uses pump shotguns with safeties in various places or that operate in various ways. When stored in this condition, any pumpgun is brought into "one switch = bang" condition in exactly the same way, albeit a noisy way.

All my pumpguns have the same safety design (they're all variations of the same make and model), so this is a non-issue for me. I keep my HD shotgun with a full tube, a chambered round, and in safe. Bringing it into "one switch = bang" condition is virtually silent.

 

[Ehtereon11B]

I can see why both schools of thought are practiced. Military and tactical units are taught methods to load and check chambers silently for surprise. So for that reason I can see why you would want one in the chamber, not just for shotguns but any HD weapon.

I think the crowd of racking around are not as determined to do what is necessary in the situation. IE hoping to scare someone enough by racking a shotgun so they don't have to pull the trigger if it came down to it.

I used to leave an empty chamber on my HD shotgun for safety reasons only. Kids/untrained persons etc. Till I tried to rack a round in the chamber silently and I can say it cannot be done without modifications to a Rem 870. So now I leave it loaded.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Being able to rack a shotgun to warn a threat means you either must have had the chamber empty before picking it up, or you're willing to eject a round from a weapon with an already dismal round capacity.

And if you left the weapon empty so you could rack it, you're assuming all threats will always be in situations where you have enough warning to rack the weapon first. You're leaving yourself woefully unprepared for situations where quickness, stealth, or even an injured arm could all prevent you from racking the slide first. That's bad tactics.

If you plan on having a weapon system as part of a self-defense plan, that weapon system needs to be ready to use at a moment's notice. That includes a full tube/mag and a round ready to fire.


"Patrol/cruiser ready" was implemented by many police departments due to the large amount of 12ga holes in patrol car roofs. Whether due to unsafe handling by officers, shody weapons that could fire when bumped, or a "lowest common denominator" safety mindset often seen when dealing with large armed organizations, the reason for the "cruiser ready" method of leaving the shotgun unchambered was so that it would not discharge inside the vehicle. It's NOT a sound tactic when dealing with threats. Leaving a weapon unchambered makes defending yourself harder. There's no way around it. Departments realized that it's better to stop all of the damage to cars by leaving it unchambered vs. giving the officers the tactical advantage in the .0001% of situations they would need the shotgun, but increasing the likelihood of putting holes in patrol cars. It was a simple cost-benefit analysis.

What cops do with their shotguns to prevent misfires in vehicles should not be a reason behind how you prepare your home/self defense weapons.

 

[Coop45]

Back in the day when Archibald Henderson was my squad leader, racking my 870 worked great for making a a burglar set sail. I saw him eyeing up my window so I eased over and got my shotgun. The only downside was that I didn't have any ammo, but that didn't seem to matter when I racked the slide. He took off running and didn't slow down until he was well out of sight. YMMV

 

[conw]

Looking at it solely from the perspective of a "warning" and not from whether it is a good idea to store a shotgun with a chambered round (people tell me it isn't)...

What do you stand to gain from intentionally racking the shotgun in earshot of an intruder?

Supposedly, you stand to gain some "deterrence" effect. This presumes that the intruder hears it, and is deterred, of course. There are a good number of presuppositions there.

What do you stand to lose?

If the intruder doesn't hear it, you lose nothing. If the intruder does hear it, you have alerted him/her to your position. If the position is totally secure this is not a big forfeiture. If it is not, you may have severely compromised your safety seeing as a gun (even a shotgun) is not a magical talisman against preemptive shooting through drywall, furniture, etc.


My opinion

Effective verbal warnings used judiciously can do everything a shotgun rack can do and more, with a higher chance of success. Another angle to this (not the primary one, from my perspective, but perhaps important) is that a verbal warning can potentially give additional justification to a defensive shooting and aid in target discrimination. Tactics should be considered strategically but also from a legalistic point of view. In some cases a verbal warning might make sense in both spheres. The shotgun-racking might lose points in terms of justifying a good shoot - or for that matter, in target discrimination.

Let's say visibility is low or the person has on a mask or appearance is obscured. "Don't ****ing move an inch or I'll shoot you, mother****er, now listen closely to what I tell you to do" is a bit more potent and direct than racking a shotgun. It's not only more likely to succeed, it's more likely to give you an ability to articulate why you felt threatened, if (for example) the person moved a certain way, after receiving your command.

 

[JohnBiltz]

I have used a pump for my HD gun. I keep the chamber empty. The reason for this is it does not have a positive safety. Police cars did not have holes put into them because of shoddy construction its because they do not have positive safeties. None of them. Neither do ARs. Hunter safety says to unload when climbing over fences. The reason for this is people shoot themselves when the gun accidentally discharge when it gets dropped. No positive safety. It can happen in your closet just as easily.

If the situation is such you are grabbing your shotgun you rack it then and there. Don't wait to make contact with the enemy, rack it there and then. Its not about the noise, its about safety.

 

[Deaf Smith]

I do know of one incidence, by a man I know, where trespassers at night were scared witless when he racked his 12 gauge shotgun when they walked by his carport (were he was standing in the shadows) and he said, "Boys, I don't want to see you walking on my land again, got that?"

They stopped using his land for a shortcut after that.

So yea, sometimes a certain sound can scare the other side.

Deaf

 

[Risky]

I do know of one incidence, by a man I know, where trespassers at night were scared witless when he racked his 12 gauge shotgun when they walked by his carport (were he was standing in the shadows) and he said, "Boys, I don't want to see you walking on my land again, got that?"

They stopped using his land for a shortcut after that.

So yea, sometimes a certain sound can scare the other side.

Deaf

Frightening and intimidating some teenagers that likely had no ill-intent is a far cry from putting an end to a life-threatening situation involving a criminal element. Save the slide racking for your teenage daughter's dates and stick to only business when it comes to defending yourself.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

It can happen in your closet just as easily.

You have a problem with loaded ARs discharging while they are sitting untouched in your closet? If I were you, I'd get money back from Bubba, his trigger job sucks.

 

[Ehtereon11B]

ARs don't have positive safeties? Who built yours?

Since the vast majority of HD shotguns have either crossbolt safeties or top safeties, the idea of leaving the chamber empty is kinda moot. Granted not every weapon has a safety.

I have read a few different pieces on this issue. The main arguments against racking the shotgun slide are as mentioned giving away your position. Other reasons are it gives the intruder a fight or flight response. They may run away or they may fight. And a gunfight inside a house is always fun...

If cocking a weapon is such a great deterrence then why don't military and police carry empty chambers? Its because when you need that weapon, you need it fast.

 

[Ledgehammer]

Risky got it exactly right! The criminal scared off by hearing a racking noise isnt the one we need to be worried about. I don't own firearms to intimidate or scare. Strictly self defense, hunting and some competition shooting.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Police cars did not have holes put into them because of shoddy construction its because they do not have positive safeties.

That's really besides the point. Police usually carry shotguns in their vehicles with an empty chamber because their command makes them. And their command makes them due to too many "accidents" involving the shotgun discharging inside the vehicle.

The real point is that none of that has anything to do with how you should set up your shotgun at home. Leaving it empty because "that's what the police do" is a bad reason to use poor tactics and set yourself up for failure.

 

[RoboDuck]

If a bad guy ever hears me rack the slide it will be strickly unintentional.

Im of the opinion that the sound of a slide racking is not intimadating.