I like the way you think. Agree 100%.
Racking a pump shotgun, or other alerts
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I like the way you think. Agree 100%.
JustinJ
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Simple. Duct tape a megaphone to the shotgun.
I disagree. The quips about the .45/.50 are based on incorrect ballistics. People who rack the slide for the noise are letting someone know there is a loaded weapon in the house, particularly one which is known for it's power in HD. This leads to either...
1) The crook soiling himself and running away in fear for his life or
2) The pro criminal adjusting his tactics based on the new information
It's a gamble between deterrence and tactics, IMO. Like I said, (as well as some others in this thread) I carry cruiser-ready for reasons other than the sound of the slide racking.
Not sure if I'll change my tactics if I get rid of the shotguns and get a rifle (or at least change out my Benelli for a Mossberg), but as it is I'd rather worry about simple motions (pump forward and back, cycle the bolt on a semi-auto) instead of precise motions (manipulating the safety).
poolingmyignorance
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I wasn't going to respond further, but I guess I'll bite.
I'm against any sort of warning as it seems unecssary. Warnings are for people with comon sense. Home invaders aren't typicaly known for their brilliant life choices. It's always safest to assume the person in your home intends the worst, and is looking for and prepared to fight. Theres a chance he's not, but now's not the time to get compassionate and wonder if he's just looking for some bread crumbs.
I'm against any sort of warning as it seems unecssary. Warnings are for people with comon sense. Home invaders aren't typicaly known for their brilliant life choices. It's always safest to assume the person in your home intends the worst, and is looking for and prepared to fight. Theres a chance he's not, but now's not the time to get compassionate and wonder if he's just looking for some bread crumbs.
mgkdrgn
Member
Agreed.
You -may- hear me rack my shotgun if you break into my home ... because I don't leave one in the pipe ... but it will only be because I've emptied my Glock and 45 Colt revolver into you first, and you were too stupid to leave.
MyGreenGuns
Member
I keep my shotgun safety off on an empty chamber.
I believe that its more likely to be discovered by a curious child than be used for HD. There are no kids living in my home, but all the family functions happen here.
When I pick it up, I rack the slide. I dont really care if anyone hears it.
It -may- frighten a burgler. If they flee, thats a win.
If they dont, then they know someone down that dark hall is waiting for them. I do not have glass walls, so they dont really know which of the 5 doors Im hiding in. (Two of the doors are closets but you cant tell without opening them 1st)
If they dont hear it over the barking dog + whatever noise they are making, I still have my surprise advantage.
~~~~~
I got a kick out of the chem stick idea. If a baddie was looking he would know right where you were when you activated the lights. If not from the light itself, they could figure it out from seeing where the light emerged from.
I believe that its more likely to be discovered by a curious child than be used for HD. There are no kids living in my home, but all the family functions happen here.
When I pick it up, I rack the slide. I dont really care if anyone hears it.
It -may- frighten a burgler. If they flee, thats a win.
If they dont, then they know someone down that dark hall is waiting for them. I do not have glass walls, so they dont really know which of the 5 doors Im hiding in. (Two of the doors are closets but you cant tell without opening them 1st)
If they dont hear it over the barking dog + whatever noise they are making, I still have my surprise advantage.
~~~~~
I got a kick out of the chem stick idea. If a baddie was looking he would know right where you were when you activated the lights. If not from the light itself, they could figure it out from seeing where the light emerged from.
45_auto
Member
You'll grab your Glock and 45 Colt before your shotgun if someone is breaking into your house?
Might be a good idea to rethink your tactics there.
mgkdrgn
Member
they are a little easier to get to is all ;-)
What a homeowner should not do is threaten someone who does not pose a threat to the homeowner.
In some states (two, I think) one may display a firearm if force is lawfully justified. In the others, the threshold is deadly force, even though presenting the weapon is in most jurisdictions not considered deadly force.
In my state, it is unlawful to "exhibit, ... any weapon readily capable of lethal use in an angry or threatening manner" except in a lawful act of self defense. The state Supreme Court has ruled that the sound of the firearm is evidence of such an exhibition and that the sight of the firearm is not required.
One does not want to commit assault in any of its forms "before someone enters the home."
JohnBiltz
Member
My Glock is on my hip at all times. I'm not planning on going to get a long gun with my hands empty.
Yep, sameish situation. Except not a Glock, specifically, but what I call a "glockish" pistol (polymer frame, striker fired). If I am awake, my gun is either on my hip or in a holster on the side of the condo I'm in. My long guns are in one static location. Should someone break in, my pistol will most likely be the first thing in the fight.
I think this is one of those deterrence vs. tactics debates. If you rack the slide, you either have them run away or find your position. If you go stealth, you run the risk of shooting someone that could have been given an out. That said, I agree with the stealth approach in terms of home defense. I do cycle the action, but chances are my first weapon to bear will be my pistol (due to it being on my hip/nightstand instead of in the closet) and I don't rack the slide on that.
bassdogs
Member
Guess if I lived in some crime infected neighborhood of druggies and low lifes, I would sleep go to sleep with all my guns cocked and ready to fire. HD is something that I have thought about and take very seriously. I have not armed my house like I am in a fox hole in Nam. I expect plenty of warning from motion lights and the dogs if something or someone is hanging out within 100 feet of my house. Plenty of time to grab the G22 from the night stand and rack a round or take 5 steps into the closet and grab the 870 and rack a round.
Sorry guys but some of you sound like you would deploy Claymores and fly drones overhead. Unless you are a drug dealer, keep lots of gold or cash and brag to everyone that you are rich, or have really pissed off a bunch of bikers; keeping an empty chamber on a HD weapon should pretty much be the way to go.
Sorry guys but some of you sound like you would deploy Claymores and fly drones overhead. Unless you are a drug dealer, keep lots of gold or cash and brag to everyone that you are rich, or have really pissed off a bunch of bikers; keeping an empty chamber on a HD weapon should pretty much be the way to go.
poolingmyignorance
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Um...based on what?
Thats a very situationally specific preference.
Nice neighbor hoods get hit by organized groups. Hell theres an entire thread on in this same forum.
If you care to keep it un chambered, fine. I choose not to..been sitting there for years like that ready, never once fired it's self. But if i need it i know all i have to do is switch the safety off. Works for me.
I live in texas, houston specificly and here as the DA says "castle doctrine is the law" There is no requirement to prove that an intruder inside your home was any more of an additonal threat than his presence. It's assumed thier presence is malicious. Which is how I think it should be. Interestingly the display of a weapon constitues use of deadly force. And even if your cleared of criminal charges in a SD shooting your still subject to civil liabilities. Lots of deterants to using deadly force, so in my humble opinion if i've decieded getting to my weapon is nessessary.. it's probably already serious and I don't want to loose a second. YMMV.
mgkdrgn
Member
That -is- what I do, but not because I want to give someone a "warning". I figure I'm most likely to be awoken at night by a break-in. I want to make sure -I- am lucid enough to chamber a round before I fire a shot. A little protection I choose to give myself from making a terrible mistake. But, like you said, YMMV
bassdogs
Member
Another good point. There are so many bad things that can happen with guns in your home that are fully ready to rock and roll. The requirement to chamber a round may be just the second that you need to focus your mind on what is happening. I have taken that step on 3 occasions. On one I confronted a pick-up in my back yard at midnite with their headlights pointing directly into my bedroom. I live in a very rural area and there is no good reason for someone to travel 1/4 mile down my private lane at midnight. We'll as it turns out there were multiple people [couldn't see but more than one] in the truck. I took a defensive stance with my weapon ready to fire and ordered them to shut off the lights and announcing that I would shoot anyone who stepped outside the truck. Probably came real close to killing someone that night. The driver put the lights on low and stepped to where I could see him. The reality was that no one in the vehicle could speak english and they had driven down my drive by mistake and got stuck trying to turn around.
I'm wondering how many on this thread would have engaged the vehicle because of the apparent aggressive posture of the vehicle and the initial failure to respond to my orders?
On point with the thread, I can't say that having to take the step of racking the slide was a factor in not shooting, but I vividly remember that the thought went thru my mind when I chambered the round, that "this was not a drill".
A cop going on duty will chamber a round before going on duty and will clear that round at the end of the shift. There is a reason for taking this step. Unless I have a reason to believe a bad guy might be stalking my home, my HD weapons are in what I call a safe ready mode.
I'm wondering how many on this thread would have engaged the vehicle because of the apparent aggressive posture of the vehicle and the initial failure to respond to my orders?
On point with the thread, I can't say that having to take the step of racking the slide was a factor in not shooting, but I vividly remember that the thought went thru my mind when I chambered the round, that "this was not a drill".
A cop going on duty will chamber a round before going on duty and will clear that round at the end of the shift. There is a reason for taking this step. Unless I have a reason to believe a bad guy might be stalking my home, my HD weapons are in what I call a safe ready mode.
I can't believe this thread is still going?
A.) I read too many ASSUMPTions about a HD/SD scenario where the criminal element is supposed to think/act in a rationale or reasonable manner, according to a lot of you folks.
B.) Telling a jury that you "racked the slide" on your HD/SD firearm as a warning is insufficient for a defense, if a shooting and/or fatality does occur.
You merely need to articulate that there was a threat to your life, or someone in your household. What condition you store the firearm in, is your own business, but when it comes time to go to work with it there had better be clear articulation about your scenario if the lead flies.
A.) I read too many ASSUMPTions about a HD/SD scenario where the criminal element is supposed to think/act in a rationale or reasonable manner, according to a lot of you folks.
B.) Telling a jury that you "racked the slide" on your HD/SD firearm as a warning is insufficient for a defense, if a shooting and/or fatality does occur.
You merely need to articulate that there was a threat to your life, or someone in your household. What condition you store the firearm in, is your own business, but when it comes time to go to work with it there had better be clear articulation about your scenario if the lead flies.
Assumption No. 1 is that the entry will occur such that the resident be able to get to the shotgun.
There is also an implicit assumption here that an intruder would recognize the sound of the slide being worked as what it is. But what if he is neither a hunter nor a shooter of clays, and that he has not seen any of the very few fictional portrayals of someone working the slide of a shotgun; what makes anyone think he would recognize the sound?
If Assumption No. 1 holds up, the decision about how to store the firearm should be made on the basis of reliability and safety, and so should the decision of when and where to work the slide if the gun is not kept with a loaded chamber.
There is also an implicit assumption here that an intruder would recognize the sound of the slide being worked as what it is. But what if he is neither a hunter nor a shooter of clays, and that he has not seen any of the very few fictional portrayals of someone working the slide of a shotgun; what makes anyone think he would recognize the sound?
If Assumption No. 1 holds up, the decision about how to store the firearm should be made on the basis of reliability and safety, and so should the decision of when and where to work the slide if the gun is not kept with a loaded chamber.
KB, pump shotguns are used enough in movies/video games that someone is going to know what the CHK-CHK is.
Bassdogs, your home is only a car ride away from the druggies/low-lifes. The reason my pistol is always chambered is because the one on my hip is chambered, and I use the same one as my nightstand gun. If I only used it for HD, I'm not sure if I'd go round chambered or not (for the simple reason that chamber empty would be the same as my long guns, less "if"s to remember).
However, "should pretty much be the way to go" is a bit over-the-top. Any modern gun should be able to be kept chamber ready safely.
Bassdogs, your home is only a car ride away from the druggies/low-lifes. The reason my pistol is always chambered is because the one on my hip is chambered, and I use the same one as my nightstand gun. If I only used it for HD, I'm not sure if I'd go round chambered or not (for the simple reason that chamber empty would be the same as my long guns, less "if"s to remember).
However, "should pretty much be the way to go" is a bit over-the-top. Any modern gun should be able to be kept chamber ready safely.
Kristensdaddy
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I keep a pump gun on hooks above the door to the garage. No round in the chamber. To date, it has been used on armadillos, possums, raccoons, snakes... non of them were scared off by the sound of working the slide.
A question though. I keep the mag tube full, the chamber empty, the safety off and do one other thing, I drop the hammer on an empty chamber so I don't have to hold down the slide release, just work the pump. Is that considered normal or is that considered unsafe. I am ALWAYS outside when I drop the hammer on the empty chamber - I don't want to find out the hard way that my eyesight isnt as good as it used to be.
A question though. I keep the mag tube full, the chamber empty, the safety off and do one other thing, I drop the hammer on an empty chamber so I don't have to hold down the slide release, just work the pump. Is that considered normal or is that considered unsafe. I am ALWAYS outside when I drop the hammer on the empty chamber - I don't want to find out the hard way that my eyesight isnt as good as it used to be.
Funny story, but I do not expect animals to know what the sound of a slide being racked means. Your average human today does.
I'm curious about this as well. Although I'm on the other side, I don't drop the hammer on an empty chamber (mainly because I hadn't thought of that). The way I store my shotguns, and where I load them, I might want to keep it the way it is. (Of course, I'm moving slowly into the semi-auto arena as it is, so that wouldn't apply anyway).
poolingmyignorance
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MGKDRGN, made a good point I actually hadn't considered.. Not sure if I totally agree. But definately worth considering.
But I can't help but wonder in your senario...Why go outside? Unless I'm misunderstanding, you stood directly infront of a vehicle you couldn't see into blided by light? How'd you know there weren't already guns at ready on the other side? Maybe it's not likely.. but it was obviously enough to make you get your gun. Without being there personally I can't really imagine what the specific circumstances were but at appearnce it's kinda a big risk. Anyhow glad it was something beign.
I had a powler fumbling at my garage door at 3am once. I hopped the back fence and snuck around the side to surprise him.. pistol in hand, he spun in surprise, and by sheer luck i noticed it was a can of spray paint in his hand, and the prowler couldn't have been but maybe 14.. Then his buddy shot out of the bushes full sprint down the street... ****ing scarry man. I was scared, they were scared, I came "that" close to shooting a kid... but who knew when I whent out there. Now I look outside, and wait inside... that was too close for me.
I have my doubts.
I've been around pump guns for fifty-plus years, but I'm not sure I have ever seen anyone rack the slide of a shotgun in a movie, and someone who does not happen to play combat-type video games will likely not have had the pleasure, either.
I have heard lever and bolt action rifles worked in movies and on TV, but I've heard drawers open and close with a sound that is indistinguishable from that of a well-worn Winchester 1892. A fair number of things people have in their basements and garages sound like a Model 1911 slide closing, and I am aware of incidents in which people did not recognize the sound.
I think the widespread assumption that someone else in the house will recognize the slide of a shotgun being racked is just that, and I think the phenomenon we see when people make that assumption is simple psychological projection.
How many people would recognize the sound? I do not know; it could be researched, but I do not know if anyone ever has.
I would be willing to wager that it would turn out to be far from universal today. In the days when many people lived in rural areas and when slide action shotguns were by far the most common, maybe, but most people today are far less familiar with them.
You and I must be watching different movies. I hear the noise in a lot of movies and action TV shows. I also think most people who are breaking into homes have at least seen some of these movies. I'm not saying people will definitely run away when they hear it, but I guarantee you almost everyone would know it, especially in the context of breaking into someone's house.
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