Does anyone NOT use expensive hollowpoint ammo in their defensive handguns?

[Exmasonite]

depends on type of SD:

out and about and worrying about the 2 legged predator, it's JHP (usually federal hydrashoks... not saying they're the best but they feed 100% reliable in all my guns. don't fix a good thing...)

out and about in the woods (hiking, camping, etc), usually swap the mag for one with FMJ for some of the more tenacious 4 legged beasties. still keep the JHP in the pipe (more outta laziness, i guess) but FMJ after that for increased penetration. (less concerned about overpenetration in woods, too)

As discussed, probably a moot point with good placement.

 

[crebralfix]

When I was a poor college student, sometimes all I had was 45 ACP hardball. You don't have to use expensive hollow points.

 

[magnolia]

Yep, any ole hard ball will do the job.........

 

[MS .45]

For defense I use mainly hardball in my 1911, Goldensaber in my 9mm and Gold Dots in my .40.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

For defense I use Hydra-shoks in my .45. As mentioned by an earlier poster, they feed as well as hardball and work well. In my Colt DS, I usually carry Winchester 130-grain hollowpoints.

Out and about in the woods, when I'm not carrying a .22 pistol, I carry a revolver -- often a .45 Colt -- and always with cast bullets.

 

[Dave in PA]

Here's my list, different tools and whatnot:

Pocket 22-currently Stingers
380-Winchester Silver Tips
9mm-Winchester Silver Tips or Fed Hydra Shoks in gun, FMJ in spare mag
357 Mag-158 Gr HP
45- Fed Hydra Shoks in gun, FMJ in spare mag
12 Ga-1st shell, #6 field load, remaining, buckshot
m1 carbine-JSP

Never had to draw a weapon except for practice/competition, I had to work on a tractor trailer in a seedy part of town near some dockyards once and was not too discreet about my shoulder holster. The small, growing group of interested 'locals' took note and decided to hang out elsewhere.

I carry a different gun depending on what I am wearing and where I am going.

 

[Raspu10]

can you reallyput a price on your life??? buy good jhps

 

[Bilt4Comfort]

I just read every page...and have come to the conclusion that opinions truly are like a-holes....we all have one. I think I'll stick with what I know works in my gun and I suggest you all find out what works in yours and use it.

 

[ken B]

not exactly premium ammo, but Winchester makes hollowpoints in their White Box line...

my 4506 has 230 grain HPs
wifes M64 has 158 +p HP semi-wadcutter
5906 has 147gr JHP

bought a box of 50 rounds for something around $20 each box give or take...and when we were at the range, we shot 30 or so rounds and kept the rest for house loads.

i buy a box of each every year, 'requalify' and shoot up the old and replace

guess I'm too complicated!

 

[Pat Yates]

Hi All,

Interesting thread. I'm a brand new member, but a longtime lurker. From reading all the prior posts, I think my situation is similar to many of the earlier posters, but some of my solutions are a bit different than those described so far.

For personal defense against two-legged predators or the rare encounter with a feral dog while mountain biking in the desert mountains around me, I’m content with Federal’s Expanding Full Metal Jacket ammo in either a 9mm Kahr P9 or a .45 LW Commander. In my guns these feed as reliably as hardball (that is, perfectly), expand about like a hollow point in tissue, and to most people who might see them, they’re just another FMJ.

When hiking in the Sierras near where I live, I usually carry an SP-101 3” with Rem 158 gr semi-jacketed HPs since a mountain lion, or smaller black bear will sometimes want to share “my” trail for a bit. For what it is worth, with well over a dozen such encounters, most of them quite close, over my fifty-plus years of woods and mountain hiking and biking, I’ve never fired a shot in these situations.

I also hike in Wyoming where I’ve gotten way too close to very large brown bears and moose. In the past I’ve carried a Ruger Alaskan in .454 Casull, in an Alaska Sportsman chest holster, or a 4 ¾” Super Blackhawk in .44 Mag in the same rig, Under a loose-fitting shirt it's not blatantly obvious, but for me, it still isn't a tolerable way yet to carry either while backpacking in warm weather. Plus with a full cylinder either is just way too heavy for mountain hiking, for me anyway. So I’m about to take delivery on a S&W 329PD in .44 Mag which will ride in the same chest rig, at least initially.

In the .454s and .44 Mags, for defensive use I load Belt Mountain’s “Punch” bullets in 320 gr and 300 gr, respectively, both loaded at the upper end of the recommended ranges for bullets of similar weight. Against something that’s very big, very close and offering to do me serious harm, I don’t want expansion of the bullet at all. I want it to penetrate as much muscle as required, in as straight a line as possible, and shatter major bones and penetrate to the CNS if I can do my part in getting it there. Anything less than immediate disruption of the CNS or structural immobilization is going leave me very flat at best.

For those not familiar with it, the Punch bullet is a lead filled, thick-walled machined brass projectile of very robust design, with a wide flat nose with a sharp corner at the edge. That sharp corner is important in minimizing the tendency of any projectile to be deflected on striking a hard surface like a bear’s skull or shoulder bones when impacting at an angle. These bullets are a work of art, and unfortunately, priced accordingly. So I practice with less jewel-like, but more affordable cast bullets loaded to the same points of impact.

Pat

 

[thebaldguy]

Good hollowpoints don't have to be expensive. I have found Federal, Remington, Winchester, Blazer and even Israeli made IMI hollowpoints at reasonable prices. I don't buy the top of the line cartridges for $25/20 round boxes. I think what I have works fine, and you can actually afford to practice with your hollow point ammo.

 

[CU74]

Bedside S&W Model 586 is loaded with non-premium hollow-points, (sometimes Federal, sometimes Winchester, sometimes Remington) - it's not many steps to the Mossberg Pump...........

 

[Rampant_Colt]

With all of the good, proven, updated ammo designs available now it's a wonder to me why folks around here would choose second best defensive ammo with which to protect their family & loved ones.


Hydra-Shok's are a 20 year old design - this isn't the 80's anymore, and there are much better ammo choices available for not much more than bulk ammo, like Federal HST, or Winchester Ranger T [updated Black Talons], that wont clog with clothing, and have earned a reputation among law enforcement agencies using the ammo in question as an effective round against badguys.

A box of 50 .45ACP costs around $18-20

If IT ever hits the fan i want all of the advantages that i can possibly get!

 

[nccavediver]

My "combat advisor" suggests nothing but FMJ's for 2 reasons. First example given is that if you miss and you wing an innocent person, you put a little hole in their arm instead of blowing off their arm. Second reason is that a FMJ has a better chance of penetrating a car door than a HP.

Not one to simply do what people tell me (although I do trust my "combat advisor" as much as I trust my ma and pa), I choose to roll with FMJ because FMJ's have fed every single time with zero jams in my weapons, whereas the HP's have not.

nc

 

[10-Ring]

I know a few that use ball & semi wadcutters instead of JHPs. In the right platform these make good choices

 

[kungfuhippie]

I use cast 9mm. My gun chambers it better than fmj and it hopefully won't over-penetrate as much as fmj and will hopefully fragment and/or expand in any bad guys.

 

[SeanSw]

FMJ in my Baby Eagle, with occasional non-premium HP. I'm still feeling out the proper HP for this pistol so I tend to shoot what I have on hand. I have more suitable defense ammunition for my S&W 67 but, as much as I try, I just don't shoot it as well as my Baby Eagle.

The FMJ is accurate and sure feeding from all 4 magazines so it will stay in the lineup regardless of what HP I decide on.

 

[obxned]

In .45, I use Ranger SXT 230 +Ps, but would be using plain-jane WWB JHPs if they were accutate enough in my gun. For some reason, both WWB FMJs and the SXTs shoot to the same point of impact at 25 yards, and both group 2 1/2 to 4" depending on my shooting on that day.

In .380, it's WWB FMJs. I wish I felt comfortable with an expanding bullet, but the penetration is just too wimpy to bet your life on.

 

[scurtis_34471]

I like Speer Gold Dot, Remington Golden Saber, Hornady XTP, Corbon DPX and Winchester Ranger depending on the caliber, the gun and the prices I can get at the moment. Overall, I think Speer Gold Dots offer the best bang for the buck.

 

[mavracer]

it's not that expensive if you search,most of the SD ammo I use is $20 per box of 50 for LE surplus.I've also found remmie golden sabers fairly cheap.
www.amunitiontogo.com and www.cheaperthandirt.com have good prices

 

[cpirtle]

I've been around here a while and been in Internet chat groups for many years and all I can say is WOW!

This has been an amazing thread and I have read every word of it. Very little of the typical soap boxing one sees so often in any highly debatable topic. (eg: reloads for SD, HP vs JHP, evean talk of lead through Glocks with no scolding to follow ).

Not that anyone will give a rats a** but I'm proud of you all.

With that said:

In 40 & 45 I typically buy the best HP's I can afford to shoot a lot of for testing. The last 2 boxes are kept for carry.

I am getting ready to load up 1000 230g Hornady XTP's for SD carry in my 45's.

38 & 357's get high end JHP's and enough shooting to test accuracy. I have a few hundred Winchester SJHP bullets I plan to roll into some 357's when I get around to it.

9mm pistols get higher end JHP's at the top of the mag followed by 6-8 WWB's for penetration if extra shots are needed. I may increase that amount in the winter.

My home defense carbine (CX4) is loaded with 9mm +P RNFP mil-surp frangible's (21 of them).

.32 ACP is strictly WWB FMJ's.

I've also been meaning to experiment with some HBWC's flipped over for my 38/357's, just have not gotten around to it and there's a case of 9mm CCI Blazer Aluminum's in JHP that have been waiting to be tested.

So I guess I may be the craziest bastard in this thread as I don't know which end is coming or going.

 

[MCgunner]

First example given is that if you miss and you wing an innocent person, you put a little hole in their arm instead of blowing off their arm. Second reason is that a FMJ has a better chance of penetrating a car door than a HP.

#1 Don't hit innocents

#2 I ain't going to be shooting through cars in any self defense scenario I can think of that's arguable in court.

If you are law enforcement, you might wanna worry about shooting through cars, though I doubt it. The civilian, though, well, I'm interested in stopping an attacker at close range ASAP.

 

[Combat Controller]

Not to put a too fine point on it, but cops are civilians too. We need to correct the mentality that cops are a special class of citizen. As long as the UCMJ is not applied, a civilian they will remain. Fellow citizens as it were.

/threadjack

 

[Jim March]

OK. I haven't heard enough of "it depends on caliber and gun" and I think those factors matter.

Mouseguns: in 22LR, 22Mag and 32ACP, ALL you can hope for is penetration. But in some of these (22Mag in particular) the rounds with the most energy are hollowpoints (CCI Maximag +V/+V-TNT). Where hot hardballs are available (some of the Euro-spec 32ACP is damned hot) you're better off that way. You MUST nail something really important with these calibers to have an effect - some people refer to them as "noseguns" and talk and screwing the barrel right up a goblin's nostril before firing.

"Barely adequate": in 38Spl (esp. from a snubbie), 32Magnum, 9x18Makarov and 380ACP, you can now start to do damage to soft tissues that will have an effect even without a central nervous system hit - in other words, we're approaching "real gun" horsepower. It's even possible to stop a charging dog with this stuff. But in this power range, ammo performance MATTERS. A LOT. Carry the best stuff you can find. In 32Mag, the Georgia Arms 100gr JHP looks good.

In 38+P there's about five rounds I trust: Remmie 158+P lead hollowpoint, Gold Dot 135+P, Winchester Supreme 130+P (weakest of the "adequate" 38s), any of the Gold Dot 125+Ps by Speer or others (second weakest), both of the Buffalo Bore +Ps (158/125 in strong guns only) and at least the 158 standard pressure BuffBore. The 125gr standard pressure BuffBore is also in the running for those recoil-shy. Oh yeah, and most of the Cor-Bon 38+Ps in strong guns only.

That's not a huge list.

9mm: Again I recommend "good stuff". I'm not a semi-auto guy and haven't kept up with the latest. Gold Dot 124gr would be a place to start.

357: Now we've got enough energy on tap that *most* decent hollowpoints will work. You can be a lot less picky...Winchester Silvertips do just fine, fr'instance. Only time to get "picky" is if you're defending against dangerous animals (hot hardcast) or if you want to drop power levels to near 38+P territory with the Remmie Golden Saber or the Speer 135gr 357 "short barrel specialty load".

40S&W: again, most decent hollowpoints work.

45ACP: hardball works fairly well, but I'd still recommend a decent hollowpoint.

---

So what are MY guns loaded with?

My Charter Undercover 38 is doing "bedside duty" stoked with Speer 135+Ps, mainly because that's what I have on hand.

My carry gun right now is my New Vaq, 357mag, 4.68" tube. The first two rounds are Winchester 158+P plain lead hollowpoints. These are similar to the Remmie but a harder lead compound - they're no good in snubs but work OK out of a 4" or more barrel. They're also very accurate. These are "first at bat" on the assumption that they're unlikely to over-penetrate in an urban area.

I then assume that after the first two shots, bystanders have ducked, so I start flinging the next four: Doubletap 125gr Gold Dots doing over 1,600fps, around 800ft/lbs of "care enough to send the very best". These are freakin' hardcore .

 

[crebralfix]

"Plenty of folks have been killed in war and in peacetime with FMJs before hollowpoints were ever in vogue."

When people say this, they neglect to mention WHEN that person died. What were the wound circumstances? Has any statistical work been done to catalog that bullet's performance, wound(s) caused, and the result of those wounds? What was the average time from hit to stop? Hit to stop to death?

Did their attack stop immediately? Or did they continue for awhile? Was it just a shooting injury that became infected and they died from complications from infection?

Of course all this applies to all bullets. However, to say the above and use it as a "proof" is a bit misleading and oversimplifies the answer to the question. It neglects to take into account changes in bullet design and construction.