Does anyone NOT use expensive hollowpoint ammo in their defensive handguns?

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For a long time, I kept meaning to buy enough fancy superbullets to make a proper test in my gun. You know, make sure they work, make sure they hit where they're supposed to, that sort of thing. Really, I did.

Then I started to think, on several levels. I've got 4 1911s that I rotate through for carry. The 1911 platform isn't exactly known for being the best in the world at digesting hollowpoints. That indicates to me, that if I'm gonna carry the things, that I had better make damn sure that they work. It's usually recommended to test any given gun/ammo combo for between 200 and 500 rounds. Extend that to 4 pistols, and you've got 800 to two thousand rounds of "premium self defense," ammo. Last time I looked at the stuff, it was about a buck a round. Two grand for test ammo? When hardball's been doing the job for 96 years? When soft lead's been doing it for 500 years? I think I've got better things to worry about with my two grand.

On another level, I've started rebelling against all the money the gun industry seems to want me to give them. I mean, crikey, I spend a fair amount on guns and ammo, to begin with. But now, they're not content with selling me guns and ammo, and reloading gear, and components. They want to sell me overpriced, useless junk, too. Super ammo, that might not even work as well as ball. Collapsible stocks, that even fully extended are too damn short. What good does that do? Ultra compact new fangled "carry," guns, that are harder to shoot than anything, and not that much easier to carry. Safety devices that foul up the trigger pull.

Oh heck, the list is far too long. Suffice to say, I'll keep my money for as much of the cheapest ammo I can create, so that I can afford to shoot, a lot. That's your best bet, anyhow. You can't buy skill, as much as the gun rags try to tell you otherwise.

~~~Mat
 
S&Wfan said:
"DOES YOUR FAVORITE LOAD SHOOT EXACTLY TO POINT OF AIM?"

S&Wfan, I agree with what you're saying.

But.

Your laws might differ from state to state, but I do believe the following is generally as true there as it is here. If I shoot a bad guy at any kind of distance where I have to worry about the inch-at-ten-yards difference between where my revolver shoots 158 grain reloads and where my revolver shoots 125gr XTPs, I'm in a lot of trouble.

Basically what I'm saying is that if I end up shooting a BG at more than about ten paces (and I know that ten paces is *very* much too close) I will have a hard time defending my actions in court. And at these kind of distances, different ammo doesn't make that much of a difference...

But as I said, everything you said is true and needs to be considered.
 
In rounds like the 9mm, S&W .40, or the .357, I carry the super duper hollow points for defense and ran enough through the guns to make sure they function with said loads. But these rounds have enough velocity to expand fairly reliably. When it comes to my .380 bug or the .45acp, I don't think that they have the velocity to expand reliably and don't worry about hollow points in them.
 
I carry heavy guns for this reason, 10mm, .357, etc. I want to have penetration, and I know I am going to get it. Now, after I have it, I want that sucker to stop. In a .45 I think ball is actually ok, but I carry 200 gr Federal Expanding Jacketed. It feeds in every .45 I own and hits at the same point of aim as my 200 gr handloads. If in the wild, I want a different load, as I will have different requirements, but if I use my .44 mag on anything less than a beefy bruin I am sure it will drop it as well, even if the 300 gr bullet goes right through.

Shot placement is key, but mocking those who use premium ammo is counter productive. First rule is bring a gun, second should be bring enough gun. That dog I shot with six 9mm Winchester Silver Tips and kept running, (that I never found) teaches me that sometimes even six body shots with HP won't do the trick, and FMJ probably would have done even less. I feel that if I had a .357 that day, that dog might have not made it's escape. I am sure it died, but it also suffered.
 
Posted by Combat Controller
Shot placement is key. That dog I shot with six 9mm Winchester Silver Tips and kept running, (that I never found) teaches me that sometimes even six body shots with HP won't do the trick

My experience with threatening dogs has been that it is incredibly hard to make CNS hits that immediately stops a vicious dog. If you made several good hits that stopped the dog from further attacking, then you did very well.

Mind you, I am a total dog lover and I hate when it comes to dispatching one. Two dogs sleep within arms reach of me every night so I won't ever go bragging about having to shoot a marauding dog.

But I have done so, though it was not pleasant in the least. When a vicious dog is bobbing and weaving with teeth bared it is pure luck that you can hit one square enough with a handgun to make it count.
 
I love my dogs too. This one was a vicious wolf hybrid that was feral and on my property in the country. I am thankful that it didn't bite my face off first. The whole story is off topic here, so I will refrain from too many details, but my first shot missed, I had a malf, and was lucky to get back on target and in business when it attacked anyway. Ever since then I have carried enough gun.
 
havent any of you seen that show on the discovery channel that had a woman that surved THREE .38 bullets to the head, then called 911 and stayed awake the entire time? im willing to bet those bullets werent hollowpoints
 
When I was a kid a woman received seven .45 ACP's to the head from her rapist. She woke up, went to the hospital and later testified. All of them hit her skull and stopped or went around to the back of her head.

You never know what will happen.
 
I run remington 115 grain HP's in 2 magazines for my nightstand gun. They are cheap to practice with and I feel if they will do the job. if twenty one rounds wont take them down, I am not betting on super duper ammo doing that much better.
 
In my glock I use god dots. It doesn't like cast lead. I don't carry this much.

In all of my revolvers, I use a hard cast WFN 158 grain bullet. It clocks 800 fps from my j-frame.

The load for my 357 pushes this same slug at 1300 from my Ruger speed six and 1450 fps from my six inch Model 19. The same load I have hunted with for years.

I will not worry about what lawyers will try to say about the ammo I use. There has never been a documented case where the bullet used was an issue.

It is either a justified shoot or it isn't. My bullet will not be recovered on the scene anyway. They go all the way through and keep going.
 
I've been told so many times to go out and buy those $15 20 round packs of "Defensive Ammo" like Hornady, etc, etc. I bought one box and realized I could never afford to run enough through my pistol to be sure it would always work. I also cringed every time I emptied the carry mag when going to the range.

Now I shoot Winchester White Box FMJ ($15/100) for practice and WWB JHP ($13/50) for practice and carrry. I've shot thousands of rounds of it. Instead of 80 cents/round, I pay 20 cents/round and am 5 times more confident in my ammo. Go for cheap, reliable JHP.
 
I also have been meaning to buy enough hydrashocks to test out my Walther with them, but they are just too damn expensive. I have been running hundreds of Magtech FMJs with the flat heads though. I figure a round, though of a substandard design, that I can shoot a whole bunch of and know it works, is better than buying 20-40 superbullets and hoping I don't get a jam.
 
It is either a justified shoot or it isn't.

Generally true.

My bullet will not be recovered on the scene anyway. They go all the way through and keep going.

Problem. Target focus in serious social situation may keep you from seeing someone behind your target. I don't need a "twofer."

The M13 is loaded with Remington 125 grain SJHP .357 Magnums from the Wal*Mart 100 round boxes. The Taurus 85UL is loaded with Winchester 125 grain STHP .38 Special +P. The KelTec P32 is loaded with Wolf 71 grain JHP brass-cased .32 Auto. I shoot enough of them to know where they hit (out to 100 yards with the .357 and the .38. I've never shot the .32 past 25 yards.

Plinking is pretty much what I have on hand.

ECS
 
Perhaps I have already answered this - I'll go back and re-read
the responses after saying what I use:

In the mid to late 1970s JEff cooper didn't trust the hollowpoints
of that era for the .45 ACP in the 1911. He liked the .45 ACP in a
200 gr. load. He had choices of a SWC cast or Hornady also had a
Truncated ( simililiar flat point tapered cone ) FMJ in 200 gr. at 1,000
FPS. Today I buy Starline brass, and Leadhead hard cast 200 gr.
SWC and load them to 1,025 FPS. I also buy Hornady XTP JHP and just found out CCI/Speer Gold Dot are avial. in 200 gr. I will have them loaded to
1,000 FPS> THe P.O.A. will be nearly identical but the cast bullets will be at least 10 cents ceaper per round and I don't have to adjust for
poofter practice loads.

yLOADSmv....

I do the same in .357 Mag. and .400 Cor-Bon.

and I feel secure having the pracrtice rounds as
good stuff to grab if I'm in a hurry

Going cheap is a dangerous false economy when it
fails
 
What's the big deal? You guys say you're more worried about accuracy, tactics, yadda, yadda. You can't train/practice and find a good load at the same time? Modern generation calls it "multitasking", but really, you don't have to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time to find a decent hollowpoint load. All it takes is a little range testing. Is range time so precious that you can't go out there a few times with a chronograph and a target and test loads for accuracy and velocity? Some even test in wet newsprint and such, but me, I just rely on a good hollowpoint and if it DON'T open up, I know it'll be no worse than a FMJ anyway.

My hollowpoint loads function, shoot to point of aim, are accurate, I see to that with judicious reloading and testing of loads. I get maximum energy and maximum accuracy from a good load. 6.5 grains of Unique behind a 115 grain Hornady XTP/JHP in 9mm produces 410 ft lbs from a 3" barrel, is 3.5 " at 25 yards accurate from a Kel Tec P11, and shoots dead to point of aim with 100 percent reliability, trust me, I know this. I shoot the flying ashtray in .45ACP, got a target I can post AGAIN if you want, dead on at 25 and a little over 1 inch for five shots from a Ruger P90 and Rugers don't jam. I have fired about 500 rounds of this stuff trouble free in the Ruger. Actually, I've never had that Ruger cough. It's so reliable, it's scary. I've fired a lot of matches with it, never had a cough.

Now, in my revolvers, I've never had a FTF or FTE. I test for accuracy and performance and that's it. I shoot a lot of cast bullets for practice because they're free and shoot quality hollowpoints that work in my guns for carry. Didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what I wanted and, hey, I quite enjoy the process, one of the fun things about handloading. I guess it carries over from my hunting rifles, looking for 1 moa groups and power for deer hunting, elk hunting, whatever. I don't want to lose deer, so I shoot expanding bullets like Nosler BTs and Sierra Game Kings and Barnes X bullets in my hunting rifles. Hunting with FMJ is folly, regardless of what the army uses. You will lose game if you do and the game will suffer before it finally expires, not very sportsmanlike. Now, I don't care to be sportsmanlike to a bad guy, but I do want to stop him in less than 48 hours.

In the mid to late 1970s JEff cooper didn't trust the hollowpoints
of that era for the .45 ACP in the 1911.

I really don't care about Cooper's opinion, but to say that 1911s ain't the most reliable guns on the planet. I had two and got rid of one, one got stolen and I really don't miss it. Neither were reliable with much else, but ball. There are better guns now days, but I won't own a gun that ain't reliable with more than ball, it ain't happening, one of the reasons I like Rugers so much.
 
Remington Golden Sabres...

....124 gr +P in my G19.

But for along time I carried WWB JHP 115gr rounds, based on some pretty decent wetpack tests I saw on these bargain basement rounds.

Not sure why I stepped up, figured I just wanted an edge. Plus they run flawlessly in my G19 (does ANYTHING not run well in a Glock :D?)
 
sorry if this repeats an earlier post, but I came in late and don't want to read all 5 pages.

A friend is a rural cop who carries FMJ in his off duty weapon as his concern is more along the lines of a BG coming at him in a car. Mas Ayoob made a comment on "guntalk" the other week, where he mentioned the scenario and accurately compared the capacity for destruction in a 3000 lb automobile to that of the ammo carried by even several officers (i.e. cars can be really much more dangerous than a handgun in certain scenarios). He didn't get into a discussion of how to deal with that, but I mention it as it fits with my friend's threat analysis for his particular situation.

the above may not apply for most people, but is an interesting scenario to contemplate.
 
I like the guy who told me he used hollow base 148 grain wadcutters loaded backwards in his .38. Supposedly made a heck of a hollowpoint.
 
Dum-dum bullets, originally developed at Dum-dum Arsenal in India by Captain Bertie Davies around 1890, are jacketed soft points. The reversed hollow-based wadcutters I used would be called hollow points today.

I wonder why someone doesn't make a swaged hollowbase with a gas check on the "nose?"
 
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