Energy fears looming, new survivalists prepare

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I don't doubt it. But it means giving up the 20th century, plus the 21st. People who expect alternative fuels to somehow fill the gap are being very unrealistic. As are those who expect to buy some acres, jump out to the sticks and live off the land. Folks like that died in large numbers in the old days, and will in the future as well. The lifestyle you describe is difficult and requires a great deal of knowledge and practice. To hunt and trap as you describe is a very rare skill, esp. these days.
 
Folks like that died in large numbers in the old days, and will in the future as well. The lifestyle you describe is difficult and requires a great deal of knowledge and practice. The lifestyle you describe is difficult and requires a great deal of knowledge and practice. To hunt and trap as you describe is a very rare skill, esp. these days.

Yep...
 
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My grandad was an old mountian man...a "moonshiner"... (hence my username) he never had much use for society...he lived off the land because it was what he knew...and it was what he taught me...how to raise a garden, curing furs, hunting, trapping, tracking, fishing, hiding, not being tracked...that sorta stuff...

Here is a pic of my Grandad...taken in July 1976 (most people had tractors then...he never owned one) by a guy named Jack Jeffers, an author, writing a book called "Appalachian Byways"...its a book about the way of life of the shy mountain people here. A link to the book... http://www.jeffersfineart.com/j_books.php

Copyofk.jpg
 
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I think the thing that you're missing Cosmoline is that these people see this as an enevitable necessity, not some fun alternative lifestyle. Sure it would be hard. Sure some would die. But it's better than the alternative.

BTW I'm sending this from my cell phone (did I mention the solar powered cell phone charger)
 
Great photo and heritage! Folks should look close at that photo to see how much knowledge it actually takes to operate a "backwoods" farm like that. You have to know how to find and buy mules. You have to know how to get them to do what you want. You have to know how to harness them for a variety of tasks. You have to know how to feed them and care for them. And all that is before you can haul one load, move one tree, or plant one crop with them. Not to mention all the myriad of methods and risks for each type of livestock or poultry kept. Or the complex undertaking of laying a trap line or knowing where to go and when to grab particular subsistence game. "Unschooled" backwoods folks actually had an encyclopedia of knowledge at their disposal, much of which has been lost.
 
"Unschooled" backwoods folks actually had an encyclopedia of knowledge at their disposal, much of which has been lost.

;)...Not in my family...and I have 2 sons.

I better hush now and let this get back on track...but I had to "say my piece" on living off the land....because if there is ANYTHING in this world that I know...it is how to live off the land.
 
I'm more worried about ecological collapse than I am about oil running out. The little amount of oil deposits we tap are enough to apparently last us 50-80 years. There is probably enough oil to last us another thousand years on this planet. Hell, think about how much coal we still have!

What worries me is what happens when those oil wells in the ME deserts dry up. Then, we drill in places like forestland, etc. etc. in areas that grow and produce our food. We mess that up, then we are in for some serious crap.

Water can be filtered, oil replaced and naturally remade, trees replanted for the future, but the ecosystem is alot more complicated.
 
Your car CAN run on water and I wonder why the 'Green' media refuses to address this.
http://www.waterfuelcell.org/

Maybe because even they know it's a bogus claim. At best, it takes more energy to extract the hydrogen from water than the hydrogen will generate. At worst, such schemes are out and out fraud.

This has been discussed at length in the Internaional Automotive Technician's Network forums. The "technology" has been thoroughly debubked. IATN is an organization of automotive repair professionals and you must me actively working in the field to join. http://www.iatn.net/
 
I grew up on my grandparents' farm in Madison County, AR. In the 70's my grandpa was still plowing with his old horse, Prince, up until Prince died. I still know how to hitch a horse to a plow and make a pretty decent row, how to use a harrow, how to pick and can beans, corn, tomatoes, etc. Those are things you don't forget when you grow up doin' 'em. That doesn't mean I want to go back to doing things that way, however. I believe that hard times are coming and that the way people will have to find ways to cope will mean a return in some degree to a more self reliant lifestyle.

What that more than likely means is that there will be less cash available and people will do a little more in the way of growing their own food, hunting (deer season will become a lot more popular), fishing and in general finding ways to supplement their diet. Inevitably, there will be those who feel entitled to the benefits they've become used to, and will think nothing of turning to criminal activity rather than hard work to survive. It happened in the '30's, so it shouldn't be any surprise that it could happen again.

Skill with firearms will be valuable in two different ways: the ability to hunt(even small game is a welcome addition to the diet when meat gets too expensive) and the ability to protect one's self, family, and property. My wife's father's parents arrived on the boat from Carlentina, Sicily and settled in Omaha in the late 1910's. Before he passed away I heard him tell numerous stories of hunting robins and other birds in the neighborhood so the family could have a little meat to go with their pasta during the Depression. Sam Fidone was also a self taught radio engineer and held the original patents for ham radio when he worked for Leo Meyerson of World Radio Labs. He was their chief engineer in the late 50's and designed the Globe Champ, Globe King and Globe Scout ham sets.

With all that in mind, there seems to be a fairly significant portion of the population that has become uneasy about the current state of affairs. A lot of these folks are from the political side of the fence that seems to have lost touch with the real meaning of the 2nd Amendment. It seems that we, as a community of folks interested in maintaining the RKBA, could make some pretty good friends and allies in that group. With the right approach, there will be a RKBA to pass on to future generations. That's my point.
 
It's not so much that oil doesn't get replenished within the earth, but that we are using it quicker than it does so. We use far too much.

Oh and I've tried buying lots of ammo recently, expecting much higher prices, but haven't gotten too far with it yet. My main goal is to pay off all I owe on my land (20 acres worth in AK), and then get there full time...I know Cosmoline may differ with me, but I'd say it's definately possible to live off the land and not rely too heavily on oil. I've never used power tools in my gardens, I don't care for chainsaws and have a nice collection of different crosscut saws (different tooth patterns for different woods and jobs you see...), and enough other hand tools to get by...the real key to that is to pace yourself. Plan ahead and take your time; doing everything at the last minute, whether it's planting a garden or cutting wood, will just burn you out, when you don't have power tools to zip through jobs. But not everyone is cut out for this stuff, and not everyone is willing to have a "lower" standard of living (not sure I consider it lower myself). And many people move to rural areas, but try to hold urban jobs and lifestyles. Not a good idea...

If it comes to it with ammo prices, I'll save whatever I have for modern ammo and instead of using it make blackpowder myself and cast my own lead balls for my flintlock...not ideal for defense but fine for hunting if you've got experience with them...and the cartridges in reserve would take care of defense against people...
 
HK91-762mm wrote:


Bottom line =we have to reduce the Population of the earth Fundies Will have to Allow Birth control -every kid is another mouth sukking the oil nipple !The alternitive is overpopulation and massive war.


While I agree with you about population issues, please drop the "Fundie" crap. While I am not a fundamentalist, THOSE aren't the people causing global population growth. They have a view-- but you DON'T have to follow it.

And PLEASE don't tell me that fundamentalists have that much control in this country-- let alone GLOBALLY.


Treo wrote:


You do realize that people are dying by the hundred thousands in Floods, Earthquakes, Cyclones, Tornados,Wars, disease & Famines. ( didn't I read a book that predicted this?) all over the world?

I doubt very seriously over population is gonna be our major problem.


Treo, if that view was valid, why is the "World Population Clock" progressing, and not regressing? All natural disasters happening annually do not even approach the number of people being born.



I actually think that we will be a "K-Point" experiment. It will get straightened out, but it won't be pretty in any form it takes.



-- John
 
I believe you are all missing the point, soon (15-50years) humans will be among the stars living on other planets/moons (as lots of moons are "fairly nice". Funded by private companies, and other countries not USA, as we seem to of left space. Perhaps not in huge numbers at first, but just like the when humans found new land far off and started to live there, it will be the be with space

We already have the technology to get places fast and colonize areas out side of earth. I feel that thats where the freedom loving people will end up out side of earth.

How we launch the first true private space port.
http://www.spaceportamerica.com/


Companys like this offering money and recognize to the winners has been a major boost to the private sector. Science is cool again. After the first well done X-prize there doing more, lots.
http://www.xprize.org/future-x-prizes
http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/

How we get there and back with power to run the plasma tv.
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/nuclearmars_000521.html


About how we are dieing off with a shortage of power, water, oil, gas, Russian invasion, global cooling, global warming. Ever year people say that we are going to all be dead soon, its always soon and has been for the last 1,000 years. Soon is sure taking its time...
 
mindwip wrote:

I believe you are all missing the point, soon (15-50years) humans will be among the stars living on other planets/moons (as lots of moons are "fairly nice". Funded by private companies, and other countries not USA, as we seem to of left space.


About how we are dieing off with a shortage of power, water, oil, gas, Russian invasion, global cooling, global warming. Ever year people say that we are going to all be dead soon, its always soon and has been for the last 1,000 years. Soon is sure taking its time...


To be fair, they've also said that we'd all be riding around in "Hover" cars like George Jetson long before now. We've been talking about "colonizing" another planet for quite a long time.

However, we are NOWHERE near anything that even approaches self-sufficient colonization of anything yet. We haven't even walked on anything but the Moon.

I've read and watched enough (with having a science teacher for a dad) to know that NASA's theoretical capabilities are NOT actual abilities.

We aren't talking about grabbing a 6 pack and making a road trip out of this. It's a tad more complicated, and I am not about to place full confidence in NASA getting us anywhere until they show that they can walk their talk.



And I still want my damned Hover Car.





-- John
 
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Nobody wants to be the first to go...but the fact remains that overpopulation IS a major problem...if you can't see it for yourself...just google the census bureau ...the population of THIS COUNTRY has doubled since 1980.

Close the border, that is the best we can do.

jj
 
haha yes i dont see my hovor car yet either! And i want one!!!


But also noticed i said private and left out NASA, we will not get anywere with them as they are now. To bloated, smaller companys have a better chance and incentive.


To be fair, they've also said that we'd all be riding around in "Hover" cars like George Jetson long before now. We've been talking about "colonizing" another planet for quite a long time.

The difference is that while we have been talking about it in the past! Now we are building it! The talk has stopped and there are real life things that we can touch at this point in time..today.. with realistic goals! The nuke engines have been built and tested its not theory! Getting to outer space has been done. We can get to the moon with new tech a lot more efficiently then with 80's tech. We now have 30 more years of tech advancement!

Look at our (USA governments)plan to go to the Moon again!, we a reusing old 80's tech to do it, and the time frame is just as long as it took to get there the first time. But look at companys that are right now building new tech and using much more advanced tech and its real not Sci-Fi
 
mindwip,

I know what you are saying. I am just not willing to bet the survival our humans on it.

If they do it, great... I'll get a Martian vacation just like on Total Recall-- without the whole eyes bugging out thingy.


But I have a lot more faith in this that don't require LITERAL stellar leaps.


-- John
 
I guess what i am saying is that by the time Earth is Fubared sp? humans will be out in space in great numbers. And that this whole earth/Country/my life is going to end soon is getting old. Ever few years it is something new, while standard of life is getting better in "free Countries".

So while the USA or even most of the world "might" be heading to a depression just as big as the Great depression or worse, like most things in life we will get through it and continue living, and will continue growing our economy until the next depression as a people.


I will personally protect my self by alway learning new skills to help me in that event either job wise or "survival" wise.
 
In the 1970s we had a fuel crisis. That was over thirty years ago and your government didn't set up a policy to deal with it. In the 80s we had a banking and saveings and loans crisis and now your government has let the same thing happen again.

In the 80s when Regan did the last imigration bill and said we wouldn't have a bunch of illegal running across our border again. Guess what?

Sooner or later you guys are going to wake up and figure out it isn't a problem with oil but a problem with government. It isn't a problem with banks but with government and we wouldn't have as much crime and problems with illegals if government did their job.

At 911 did even one rep resign from his job for the failure of government to protect our borders?? Nope , yet thousands have died and the border is still wide open.

There is no hope untill people can clear their minds and see what the real problem is, our government.

jj
 
" I can skin a buck all day long, I can catch catfish from dusk till dawn, I got a shotgun, a rifle, and four wheel drive, and a country boy can survive"


---take these as words of warning, instead of song lyrics and you wil be fine.
 
"I can skin a rube all day long, I can play three-card-monte from dusk till dawn. I have a concealable handgun, a switchblade knife and a bad attitude, and a city boy will survive."
 
Well we're heading for harder times. I'm not going to go into Peak Oil and all that other stuff. Things are happening and jawboning about it won't change anything.

But humans are very flexible. Don't be so quick to sell the entire race down the river. However if you study history you'll learn that a big key to survival is community. Even the old farmers had community. It was the best way to survive. And it will be again. Why do you think that banishing was such a terrible and effective punishment back in the old days?

Many of the survivalists are mistaken if they think they'll be able to make it entirely on their own. Historically the old pioneers that made it were the ones that had others to help them and vice versa. The ones who were out there on the raggedy edge, all by their lonesomes, had a much harder time.

Heck even the old Mountain Men relied on others at times. So like it it or not here it comes.

Man do I understand that old curse; May you live in interesting times.
 
A problem with government? A problem with government?

The problem with goverment is that they have too big a hand in private venture.
A free market society is just that, free. Not one over burdened by government rules and restrictions.

Greed my friend is the enemy of a free market.

We all talk of useless legislation and restrictions as it pertains to firearms. The same goes for pretty much everything else.

One thing we don't need is more nanny goverment.

Using a bunch of SHTF survivalists the poster children for making guns socialy acceptable ain't a good idea. It makes guns owners look unstable, not self reliant.

This country didn't get "civilized" by everyone working alone. People worked in groups to settle towns. That required many people with different skills.

The way society will continue is everyone working together, not all peering out your window waiting to blow some stranger away picking an apple off your tree.

Some guy wants to buy 100 acres out in the middle of nowhere, have at it.
Survive all you want. Just keep in the back of your mind that a well placed shot from 500 yards away wiil put a damper on your plans.
 
My girlfriends friend is really into being "natural" and so forth, and recently told me about an article in backwoods home magazine that she found a bit surprising, because it mentioned preparing in case of such a scenario. The thing that I found surprising was that Backwoods Home is a magazine she would be interested in the first place, since i usually go to the website to read the Massad Ayoob column :D
 
OK, I thought this would be a creative moment for The High Road, but I see the usual has happened. Mods, please feel free to kill this one for thread drift. Trying to find a creative way to get the folks on the other side of the fence to see things our way by using their own logic as a lever may be as hard a trick to pull off as getting the folks around here to see past their own agendas. It was worth a try...
 
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