Ethical vs Unethical Hunting?

[LAK]

DNS, I got into a similar discussion with a guy about "how easy it is to kill a deer with a scope-sighted rifle". I made him an offer: I'd rig a motor-drive Nikon camera with crosshairs on the shutter. I'd mount the camera on a rifle stock and arrange a trigger to operate the shutter.

Very fitting challenge!

For every hunter that manages a textbook stalk under the general rules of fair chase and brings home the goods with regularity - there are countless numbers who make errors, suffer simple misfortune - or who get spotted, outsmarted, by the animals they pursue.

I have been within rock throwing distance of deer. No camo, face paint, scent blockers, bait etc; simply by spotting them at a distance, remaining perfectly still, and letting them walk right up to me. Once.

But to say that there is no challenge stalking and cleanly taking any game animal or bird under fair chase is in error. For me the entire experience of a hunt is in the chase; if it were so easy and such a sure thing, I personally would have lost interest in it a long time ago.
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[JohnKSa]

Here's my take.

Ethical hunting:

• Is legal.
• Is consistent with the SPIRIT of the law.
• Offers a reasonable level of challenge to the hunter.
• Offers a reasonable chance of escape for the prey.
• Results in a reasonably low probability of wounded prey escaping.
• Is not wasteful of natural resources.
• Is not significantly harmful to the environment.
• Does not harmfully reduce the population level of game.
• Does not unecessarily demean the hunted animal.
• Is not solely kill oriented. (A hunt need not ALWAYS culminate in a kill to be sucessful.)
• Encourages hunters and others to learn about and support the environment.

If the game is dangerous game, then the following applies IN ADDITION to the comments above.

• Presents some reasonable level of risk/danger to the hunter.

 

[Koobuh]

Is legal.QUOTE]

Law and Ethics should never be paired together in an argument. Ethics, like morals, exist independantly of the law, though they are often codified within laws.
Ethics are derived from the most common accepted practice of those who make morally sound decisions.
It is Ethical to put down a car-hit deer which is going to die slowly of its wounds, because that is what a Moral person would do- in a society where Morality considers animal suffering unacceptable. However, it is often Illegal to do so; discharging a firearm in city limits, shooting a game animal for a purpose other than consumption, taking a game animal out of season, various onerous poaching regulations, etc.

All other legal requirements aside, ethical hunting really should include only the following (in my opinion).
Property rights will be respected, and no shot is taken without positive identification of the target.
The animal is cleanly killed.
The hunter utilizes the whole animal directly or by proxy (donation of meat, hide, etc.), and disposes of the waste (offal and blood) in a way that will not contaminate local water supplies.

That's all. All I am concerned about Morally in hunting is that the animal not suffer unduly, that I make its sacrifice worthwhile, and not infringing another person's rights or safety in the process.
Everything else is superfluous as far as my ethics go, although often necessary for management goals. It is of course recommended to be highly scrupulous when it comes to the law.

 

[CrazyIrishman]

Here's my take.

Ethical hunting:

• Is legal.
• Is consistent with the SPIRIT of the law.
• Offers a reasonable level of challenge to the hunter.
• Offers a reasonable chance of escape for the prey.
• Results in a reasonably low probability of wounded prey escaping.
• Is not wasteful of natural resources.
• Is not significantly harmful to the environment.
• Does not harmfully reduce the population level of game.
• Does not unecessarily demean the hunted animal.
• Is not solely kill oriented. (A hunt need not ALWAYS culminate in a kill to be sucessful.)
• Encourages hunters and others to learn about and support the environment.

If the game is dangerous game, then the following applies IN ADDITION to the comments above.

• Presents some reasonable level of risk/danger to the hunter.

John,

I think you've hit the proverbial nail on the head with your list. I no longer hunt myself due to health issues but I have yet to forget the memories that I have. Even if I went home with no game to eat I still considered it a "good" hunt.

 

[JohnKSa]

Law and Ethics should never be paired together in an argument.

It is true that ethics and legality aren't the same thing and I didn't mean to imply that they are.

Ideally, an equitable, omniscient and benevolent government draws the circle of law around the activities of its citizens. Likewise, in the ideal situation, each citizen then draws his own circle of ethics and morals WITHIN the circle of law.

While ethics and morality sometimes conflict with the law, that shouldn't happen in a fair and benevolent representative government that has considered every case and made the right decisions in every situation. So your PRACTICAL example is of interest only to the extent that it makes the case that the government is either not completely fair, not perfectly benevolent, or can't make laws that always adequately cover every possible circumstance. Which is a given--no government can possibly conform to those standards.

However, that doesn't change the fact that ethics and morality are concepts that involve the idea of right and wrong. A disregard for the law is generally considered to fall more under the concept of wrong than right and therefore a very good beginning point for defining personal ethics and morality is legality.

It is clearly true that a person can hunt legally without being an ethical hunter.

But, in my opinion, it's hard to make a case for being an ethical hunter if you disregard hunting regulations. Particularly, since the general idea of hunting regulations is to benefit the hunted animals and to protect those who are doing the hunting and those who are nearby.

Which reminds me--I've left at least one thing off my list...

Here's the revised version.

Ethical hunting:

• Is legal.
• Is consistent with the SPIRIT of the law.
• Offers a reasonable level of challenge to the hunter.
• Offers a reasonable chance of escape for the prey.
• Results in a reasonably low probability of wounded prey escaping.
• Is not wasteful of natural resources.
• Is not significantly harmful to the environment.
• Does not harmfully reduce the population level of game.
• Does not unecessarily demean the hunted animal.
• Is not solely kill oriented. (A hunt need not ALWAYS culminate in a kill to be sucessful.)
• Encourages hunters and others to learn about and support the environment.
• Respects the property and rights of others.
• Considers the safety of others.

If the game is dangerous game, then the following applies IN ADDITION to the comments above.

• Presents some reasonable level of risk/danger to the hunter.

 

[lawson]

i was raised as a hunter by a hunter, and i believe i am an ethical hunter.

i never shoot something i don't intend to eat. i'm not going to eat an entire deer on my own, but i have lots of friends that enjoy gifts of venison.

i don't take a shot unless it's clean. in the terrain i hunt in, most deer shots are under 100 yds, usually around 50-75.

i've never hunted from a stand, but i've climbed a few trees in my day.

 

[Art Eatman]

Hey, anybody who's not figured out that being with a bunch around the campfire, talking about today's hunt, yesteryears' hunts, and "Where ya gonna hunt tomorrow?" just hasn't a clue about the best part of the whole deal!

, Art

 

[Stand_Watie]

A good point regarding ethical vs. legal above.


[redacted to protect the innocent and the guilty]

 

[Mantis]

Hey, anybody who's not figured out that being with a bunch around the campfire, talking about today's hunt, yesteryears' hunts, and "Where ya gonna hunt tomorrow?" just hasn't a clue about the best part of the whole deal!

, Art

+1

That's one of the most difficult things for non-hunters to understand.

 

[ID_shooting]

As a disabled hunter and a holder of a disabled hunters permit, I think road hunting is fine. When I was younger I did most of my hunting on foot, now that I have synthetics in my knee, I do most of my hunting on an ATV. My permit does allow my to shoot from a vehicle, though I rarely do, but does not allow me into the gated off roads in the public lands.

Since these gates are closed, (not private land, USFS or BLM mostly) I do not get to expirience 7/8th of the same country able bodied hunters get to. (is that ethical?)

My hunting sucess and been 1/10th of what it used to be (big game, turkeys, upland) simply becuase I can not walk as far or over the same ground that others can.

What is unethical? For me it using too small of cliber and shooting at ranges too far for reliable kills. I am not into baiting iether, but that is illegal in Idaho so I dont worry. Everything else is OK.

 

[JohnKSa]

Not legal, but in an area where red-tailed hawks are very common (my county bills itself as the red-tailed hawk capital of the world), I think ethical.

Also not hunting.

IMO, pest control is a VERY different thing from hunting and the same rules do not apply.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I pretty much agree with most that has been written here.

A couple of points of order however.

1. Not all people who use four wheelers are evil. I use a four wheeler instead of my new pick up on narrow tree choked rocky roads and in mud and snow that make driving a 1 ton pick up impossible at worst and dangerous and expensive at best.

I.E> I use my 4-wheeler as a jeep and only on legal roads and trails. I don't hunt off it any more than the guy driving his jeep or other 4WD vehicle to and from the area I intend to hunt. That being that if I was to spy a big bull or buck from atop a 4 wheeler I'd dismount uncase load and go try to collect him just as you would in a jeep or P/U.

This procedure save a bunch of money in truck repairs. And contrary to popular B.S. spread by anti ATV persons they don't make any more noise than your P/U or jeep does banging down a rocky forest road. Thank you very much.

As a note I prefer to hunt off of my horse which in most parts of CO is the true unfair advantage. I usually pass the red faced huffing puffing foot hunter about 20 minutes up from the trail head (an hour or more for the hiker) and get so far back into prime country within an hour it's like having your own private hunting ranch. I really like the part when I've got my bull all quartered up and stored in my saddle panniers and pass the same red faced huffing hunter on the way down and he's still climbing.

Also as a point of correction before it gets started you don't shoot of a horse you use them to get into prime country then park them and hunt off of foot. For those who haven't done it.

2. To the fellow who claims that there is nothing "fair" about hunting due to rifles and range and the animals not knowing you are there. Has admittedly and OBVIOUSLY never hunted. I would invite you to come for a week in the Rockies climbing the steep and deep for elk or possibly to sneak into a herd of irate cow elephant. And then tell me how unfair you thought the whole process was.

 

[Stand_Watie]

...Also as a point of correction before it gets started you don't shoot of a horse you use them to get into prime country then park them and hunt off of foot. For those who haven't done it.

Because it's unethical or because it's impractical?

 

[ID_shooting]

"Also as a point of correction before it gets started you don't shoot of a horse you use them to get into prime country then park them and hunt off of foot. For those who haven't done it."

I have to ask why as well. Growing up, I streched fence and tossed hay and straw for a guy that had horses. His were gun trained. I had seen him take a shot of one several times. I dont know that I saw anything wrong with that.

 

[Woodland_Annie]

Road hunting ...

I've got a buddy who hasn't taken a shot except from a truck or ATV in years. To my knowledge, he hasn't walked up on a deer in at least 10 years.

Of course, that'd be because he lives in a wheelchair.

If some folks had their way, no one would be allowed to hunt from a vehicle, and my buddy's freezer would always be empty.

To me, that would be unethical.

pax

+1

My uncle had a stroke several years ago and walks with a cane. To get to our hunting area, you have to go down a steep hill, cross a creek, and go deep into the woods. He has an ATV just for that purpose. Before the stroke he would have travelled the route on foot.

We do have a serious problem with poaching. My dog came home from trotting around the woods dragging a black garbage bag, neatly tied. The contents of the bag was one carcass of a buck with its head neatly sawn off. Unless my dogs have developed opposable thumbs to do all this, I'll go out on a limb and say it was probably poachers trophy hunting.

We have approached vehicles parked up the road in the middle of the night with the dogs in tow and "offered assistance." Funny, they always manage to have just finished "fixing" their truck and they drive off.

In a conversation about the state's tip line to turn in poachers I asked a wildlife officer if I'm supposed to shoot the poacher before or after calling the tip line. He said, "Lady, I ain't touching that question with a ten foot pole!"

So first on any definition of unethical, I would say trophy hunting and hunting w/o landowner's permission.

 

[Art Eatman]

"So first on any definition of unethical, I would say trophy hunting and hunting w/o landowner's permission."

Careful in your word usage. Before a war starts, I'll presume you mean by "trophy hunting", somebody who only cuts off the head of a superlative animal but leaves the carcass.

In normal usage, "trophy hunting" only means selecting a superior animal. The meat is taken as well as the head.

Art

 

[Woodland_Annie]

Before a war starts, I'll presume you mean by "trophy hunting", somebody who only cuts off the head of a superlative animal but leaves the carcass.

Art

Thank you, Art. I meant exactly that.

So when does the poacher shoot begin?

 

[Pharley]

People have different ethics across the board. I feel I am an ethical hunter, and someone else may disagree. I eat what I kill, and i fish the same way. I do kill groundhogs on 2 farms, and this is at the request of the owner. There are a lot of right answers, but none of them are right.

 

[MCgunner]

In Texas, feeder watching is a way of life. I've found, on my own 10 acres, that if your land is in the right spot, a feeder can be quite productive. However, it gets boring. I'd much rather spot and stalk out west, but white tail in the woods and prairies don't lend themselves to spot and stalk. Feeder watching is the only way. But, that's why I go west to hunt when I can afford the time and money.

Baiting hogs at night is legal here in Texas. I do it on occasion. Not a big deal and fun. I don't consider it unethical.

On the subject of "enough gun", what about archery, where it is expected you'll have to blood trail the animal because he only dies when he's bled to death????? I still consider it ethical. If he's stupid enough to come within bow range, hey, he gets what he deserves... I don't bow hunt, can't shoot the things with my eyesight in my strong side eye.

The ONE thing that sort of irks me, I answered an ad in the paper once for hog hunting just south of San Antonio. When I got there, it was a 700+ acre high fence ranch with exotics. The hogs were plaguing the place and you were allowed 3 under 100 lbs on a two day hunt, what I was looking for, meat hunt. It was only $180 for the hunt. I had great fun killing my three hogs. Anyway, on a tour of the ranch when I first get there, the guy is feeding the exotics. I mean, there are red stag, muffolon (sp?), black buck, this and that and they come out of the woods like the pied piper following the jeep. The guy says, "Yeah, when I bring exotic "hunters" out, I like to let 'em out down the road so they can make a "stalk"." Now, this guy was serious! I shot one hog on the run, he fell a few yards into the woods, when we went after that hog, and just after the shot, this red stag comes walking up for a hand out! Later, I'm walking through the woods kicking brush piles looking for my third hog when the sheep/goat of some kind, probably Barbary sheep or something, one of those curly horned looks like a big horn sorts is walking toward me down the same trail. I was camoed out in my 3d, so I stop motionless. This thing walks right up to me on the trail sniffs me, turns around, and walks off! What the heck kind of "hunting" is THAT?! The hogs were wily enough and the deer stayed to cover pretty much, but the danged exotics were friggin' PETS. It's like walking out in the woods and shooting a cow! I don't call that hunting, ethical or not.

 

[redneck2]

So, when I sit down my beer and crank down the window to take a shot while Bubba holds the light, you guys think that's unethical???



An ethical hunter thinks the hunt is more important than the kill

 

[Art Eatman]

"So, when I sit down my beer and crank down the window to take a shot while Bubba holds the light, you guys think that's unethical???"

Well, I've noticed that ol' Wile E. Coyote seems to think so--but I don't.

Art

 

[f4t9r]

Most any manner of hunting can be considered ethical under the appropriate circumstances and potentially inappropriate under other circumstances. But killing just to kill something is never appropriate or ethical....

I will go with this one +1

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

+ 1 on not killing just to kill. Laid a law on my son if you kill it you eat it.

 

[H&Hhunter]

"Also as a point of correction before it gets started you don't shoot of a horse you use them to get into prime country then park them and hunt off of foot. For those who haven't done it."

I have to ask why as well. Growing up, I streched fence and tossed hay and straw for a guy that had horses. His were gun trained. I had seen him take a shot of one several times. I dont know that I saw anything wrong with that.

Well,

To answer your questions about shooting from a horse. I guess there are some gun broke mounts around. I have a hard enough time hitting what I'm aiming at on foot from a rest, I just ain't man enough to try it from atop a swaying horse.

And I do know one thing for certain you could shoot from atop my horse. But only once and then things may well become a little more exciting than you bargained for.

He tends to jump at a the shot. There have been plenty of times I've jumped off of him grabed a rifle stood on the reins or held them to make a shot.

The point I was trying to make however is that a horse is a vehicle to get you into prime country while reserving your strength so that you can hunt hard when you get to that prime country.

I am often asked when I mention hunting on horse back if I shoot from my horse. The answer is I guess you could but only once and then you'd be on foot anyway.

H&Hhunter

 

[Art Eatman]

Lord knows there have been enough stories in the gunzines about packing in on horseback, and then scouting from atop Old Crowbait. Dunno why it's a question.

As far as shooting from horseback, I did have a palomino gelding that finally got used to it. He didn't like the '06, but he wouldn't buck. I'd see a deer in the pasture and rein him in. He'd learned to turn about 45 degrees right from a 12 o'clock deer so I could get a shot. He'd put his head down as far as he could, lay his ears back, and sorta hump-flinch when the gun went off.

I probably never would have worked on him to train him, but when I'd be shooting pistol at my range, he'd walk up behind me and stand by my right shoulder as if he wanted to tell me what I was doing wrong. Revolvers were okay, but he didn't like the way my 1911 ejected over my shoulder.

Lordy. Doesn't seem like it was 35 years ago...

Art