Featureless, limited capacity AR-15 vs Tactical Shotgun

[Rival]

From what I have seen, majority of people agree that for home defense or SHTF scenarios AR-15 is the preferred long gun when compared with 12GA shotgun.

But in my state the kind of AR-15 you can legally get is not exactly what one has in mind when talking about AR-15. The one I got to hold in store the other day had fixed 10 round mag you could not even drop without opening up receiver. Having said that, you can still get LEO/Mil spec shotgun, as long as you get domestic gun or know your way around 922(r) compliance.

So is AR-15 with imposed limitations still the better choice, or the shotgun is starting to look better? Are there other options out there? I was looking at M1 carbine, but the ammo seems on the costly side. Perhaps Mini-14 is the way to go?

 

[General Geoff]

Perhaps Mini-14 is the way to go?

^^This, if you like the idea of a .223/5.56 carbine. It's more or less functionally identical to an AR, just with different ergos. Might not be as accurate at distance but for home defense, that's irrelevant

 

[Mk-211]

Do you live in CA?

Here's one of the last AR's I built.



Mud flap PG, no flash hider, fixed stock but has a detachable mag. Having the mag feature was more important than everything else.

All the extra features are meaningless! If you spend more than a couple seconds trying to swap or reload a fixed magazine.... good luck.

 

[Riomouse911]

The Juggernaut Tactical system makes a “California compliant” AR about as “America Legal” as anything, if an AR is what you are wanting.

But, the Mini 14/30 and other non-scary looking magazine fed semi-auto rifles are just as effective in the hands of a trained home defender without the AR stigma some states create.

Shotguns are very effective home defense firearms, My 870 would be reached for by me before my ARs or Minis would, simply because my suburban home HD plan puts it there. (If I was rural the rifle would be first .)

Another great option is a PCC like the Ruger PC 9 or similar “non scary” rifle.

Options abound, keep looking and you’ll find what you need.

Stay safe..

 

[starling]

Im still in the Pump shotgun school for Home defense. Key word being defense. If I was living out in the country on a large spead of land then I would be more likely to choose an AR or Mini 14 style of rifle. Might not be the In-thing right now but I still dont think you can beat a simple pump shotgun inside short home security ranges for defensive use. They just dont have the tactical apeal of a lot of this more modern hi tech stuff. Bigest hitch would be a home invasion by a group of thugs wearing body armor. still... nobody I have ever met likes the idea of going up against a shotgun.

Best thing to do is deter them from your property. Keep things lit up at night, harden your house, and have a dog. Home security is a layer and deterance thing at its core. Firearms should be last resort as when you shoot at people they often have a tendancy to shoot back. I dont relish the idea of having to shoot at someone so I do everything within my power to deter that from ever happening. Beware of dog signs (even if you dont have a dog) are a good thing to have posted around the home as are neighborhood watch or camera signs.

 

[MikeInOr]

For me as short and maneuverable as possible is my preferred home defence gun so I would take a plastic 45 over either of your choices. An XD mod 2 sub compact in 45acp is my choice. It is concealable with the short magazine and handles like a full size with the long 13 round magazine.

I have never gotten on the AR band wagon so I would go with the Mini 14 with a folding stock from your choices. With the stock folded it is reasonably short and maneuverable.

For SHTF I would also take a concealable hand gun in 45acp for an urban scenereo. For the boonies I would want a .308 with a 6.5 or 300 blackout being preferred if I had to have an AR15. I have always considered .223 to be a varmit round for which it is very good.

 

[Gun4Fun90]

From what I have seen, majority of people agree that for home defense or SHTF scenarios AR-15 is the preferred long gun when compared with 12GA shotgun.

But in my state the kind of AR-15 you can legally get is not exactly what one has in mind when talking about AR-15. The one I got to hold in store the other day had fixed 10 round mag you could not even drop without opening up receiver. Having said that, you can still get LEO/Mil spec shotgun, as long as you get domestic gun or know your way around 922(r) compliance.

So is AR-15 with imposed limitations still the better choice, or the shotgun is starting to look better? Are there other options out there? I was looking at M1 carbine, but the ammo seems on the costly side. Perhaps Mini-14 is the way to go?

I don’t know what state you’re in but instead of a internal magazine lock could you get away with something like a fin grip or Thorson stock? (I know in DC and NY and I think maybe California a Thorson stock will do it.)

it’s an easier swap to make and doesn’t affect the function of the gun, and while I would never tell you to play fast and loose with the rules just keep in mind if you ever do want/need to make it a standard configuration again, a Thorson stock can be swapped out for a standard magpul style grip and stock in about 5 minutes, ya know for like when you decide to leave the state.

Like I live in DC but the range I go to is over the border in Maryland. So I mean I may just happen to have some traditional magpul MOE furniture and a screwdriver sitting next to my range bag.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Do you live in CA?

Here's one of the last AR's I built.

View attachment 1106456

Mud flap PG, no flash hider, fixed stock but has a detachable mag. Having the mag feature was more important than everything else.

All the extra features are meaningless! If you spend more than a couple seconds trying to swap or reload a fixed magazine.... good luck.

If my AR had to be like that I would find the next best thing to a real AR. Something designed to have a non-detachable mag would be much easier to load. Think SKS. Or some other detachable mag firearm that hasn't been focused on by Leftists.
I really like my Weatherby SA459 inside the house.

 

[jmr40]

Inside my home a 15' shot would be about as far as I can shoot. At that range I'll take a handgun every time. The ability to use it with one hand trumps a larger, more cumbersome weapon even if it is a little more powerful.

But if I'm reaching for a long gun at those ranges I don't see where a shotgun offers any advantages over an AR or similar rifle. The primary advantage of a shotgun is a wide pattern making hits more likely. At 15' there isn't enough pattern to make a difference. Might as well use a rifle or PCC that is more compact, has less recoil and holds more rounds.

Normally I'd choose an AR 10 times out of 10 over a Mini-14. But if an AR isn't an option and a Mini is, then a Mini-14 is what I'd use. It isn't that the Mini-14 is a bad choice, it's that for most of us an AR is better and costs less. I don't know what is legal where you live but perhaps other choices are available. I'd still choose 10 rounds in an AR over a shotgun at indoors ranges even if a reload wasn't an option.

Where my shotguns fit in is outdoors at moderate ranges. A load of buckshot is going to be effective from my house to my property line in any direction. And the pattern makes hits more likely than either a rifle of handgun.

 

[Speedo66]

From what I have seen, majority of people agree that for home defense or SHTF scenarios AR-15 is the preferred long gun when compared with 12GA shotgun.

But in my state the kind of AR-15 you can legally get is not exactly what one has in mind when talking about AR-15. The one I got to hold in store the other day had fixed 10 round mag you could not even drop without opening up receiver. Having said that, you can still get LEO/Mil spec shotgun, as long as you get domestic gun or know your way around 922(r) compliance.

So is AR-15 with imposed limitations still the better choice, or the shotgun is starting to look better? Are there other options out there? I was looking at M1 carbine, but the ammo seems on the costly side. Perhaps Mini-14 is the way to go?

"So is AR-15 with imposed limitations still the better choice, or the shotgun is starting to look better? Are there other options out there? I was looking at M1 carbine, but the ammo seems on the costly side. Perhaps Mini-14 is the way to go?"

If you think Carbine ammo is expensive, have you seen the current prices for Carbines themselves?

I think you would be well protected with either a shotgun or a Mini-14, your choice to make as to which one suits you and your situation better.

 

[dodo bird]

My choice is whatever you shoot and train for more.

 

[CoalTrain49]

For me as short and maneuverable as possible is my preferred home defence gun so I would take a plastic 45 over either of your choices. An XD mod 2 sub compact in 45acp is my choice. It is concealable with the short magazine and handles like a full size with the long 13 round magazine.

I have never gotten on the AR band wagon so I would go with the Mini 14 with a folding stock from your choices. With the stock folded it is reasonably short and maneuverable.

For SHTF I would also take a concealable hand gun in 45acp for an urban scenereo. For the boonies I would want a .308 with a 6.5 or 300 blackout being preferred if I had to have an AR15. I have always considered .223 to be a varmit round for which it is very good.

 

[Rival]

I'd still choose 10 rounds in an AR over a shotgun at indoors ranges even if a reload wasn't an option.

Perhaps you can’t handle shotgun as well as AR, and this is the reason you have such an opinion. Personally, I respectfully disagree. For me round for round shotgun is going to provide more firepower at indoor range, it’s when range increases to outdoor distances when rifle is starting to make shotgun less effective platform, and beyond certain range completely obsolete.

 

[Rival]

If you think Carbine ammo is expensive, have you seen the current prices for Carbines themselves?

Locally new Auto Ordinance M1 Carbine sells for $70 cheaper than Mini-14, which puts those two in the same ballpark if you don’t consider ammo. That’s why I said the ammo is on the expensive side.

 

[CoalTrain49]

For me as short and maneuverable as possible is my preferred home defence gun so I would take a plastic 45 over either of your choices. An XD mod 2 sub compact in 45acp is my choice. It is concealable with the short magazine and handles like a full size with the long 13 round magazine.

I have never gotten on the AR band wagon so I would go with the Mini 14 with a folding stock from your choices. With the stock folded it is reasonably short and maneuverable.

For SHTF I would also take a concealable hand gun in 45acp for an urban scenereo. For the boonies I would want a .308 with a 6.5 or 300 blackout being preferred if I had to have an AR15. I have always considered .223 to be a varmit round for which it is very good.

I think one needs to look at many variables for choosing a home defense firearm. State restrictions is your first stop. Family members would be my second consideration. Rural or Urban dweller? Availability of ranges where you can train. Lots of questions.

What really jerks my chain is "trainers" advocating one over the other without any knowledge of all of the variables that affect everyone. All this tells me that they aren't really the professionals they claim to be.

Personally, I prefer a 45 ACP pistol with a light but that selection is based on my personal situation. I have several pump shotguns (one has a 20'' barrel) and a Mini-14 but they stay in the safe.

I know the latest trend is to buy a shotgun but is it really the best fit? Do you have a place to train? I belong to a private outdoor range (500 members) and the only shotgun activity is multi-gun and cowboy. They have a very large and active USPSA group and a nat'l champion. Most of the rifle shooting is informal but always someone on the range when it's open.

Generally clubs, especially in urban areas will follow the desires of the members and the public when deciding which discipline to offer. So my question to the new SD shotgun buyer is.....where are you going to train? Our trap range has been losing shooters for the last several years and is scaling back their weekly meet to 2 days a month.

 

[Rival]

My long arm considerations do not mean I disregard handgun options. I own several handguns and two of them are in quick access lock boxes available for home defense purposes, namely full sized 1911 in .45, and six shot medium frame .357 with 4 inch barrel.

 

[DustyGmt]

I keep an AR and an 12ga pump close by at all times, but if I had to choose between an commified AR15 with no detachable magazine and a Mini 14 I'd take the mini hands down. Even if I was restricted to 5rd detachable magazine in the mini vs an AR15 with fixed 10rd I'd still take the mini 14.

On the other hand I think a pump action shotgun is a very versatile weapon and buckshot/slugs can tend to just about any problem to great effect at appropriate range.

It may have been cooper for all I can remember, but somebody of some prominence wrote that the pump is the tool of a master or something to that effect. As in not for the beginner or inexperienced. So if it's a pump, I'd put special emphasis on practice and shooting alot.

 

[Speedo66]

Locally new Auto Ordinance M1 Carbine sells for $70 cheaper than Mini-14, which puts those two in the same ballpark if you don’t consider ammo. That’s why I said the ammo is on the expensive side.

My bad, I didn't consider commercial Carbines. There have been so many poor copies that I only consider military models as generally reliable.

The military models have really shot up in price.

 

[WrongHanded]

From what I have seen, majority of people agree that for home defense or SHTF scenarios AR-15 is the preferred long gun when compared with 12GA shotgun.

The majority of people will also agree that a smartphone is essential in today's world. And, depending on the demographic, that skinny jeans are best lower body clothing a man can buy.

Assess your situation. Do your own research on each firearm's efficacy and limitations (I realize that is part of the reason for the thread). Then decide what works best for you.

For me, home defense starts with locking the doors, using cameras, and having dogs. The primary gun is a pistol, which is on my person at all times. Should I have time to retrieve or make my way to it, a pump shotgun with 00 buck and a weapon light is in reserve. Rifles only become an option for me, once I step off my property and out into the neighborhood, to engage in the kind of fighting that just isn't at all likely to happen.

 

[Rival]

The majority of people will also agree that a smartphone is essential in today's world. And, depending on the demographic, that skinny jeans are best lower body clothing a man can buy.

Assess your situation. Do your own research on each firearm's efficacy and limitations (I realize that is part of the reason for the thread). Then decide what works best for you.

For me, home defense starts with locking the doors, using cameras, and having dogs. The primary gun is a pistol, which is on my person at all times. Should I have time to retrieve or make my way to it, a pump shotgun with 00 buck and a weapon light is in reserve. Rifles only become an option for me, once I step off my property and out into the neighborhood, to engage in the kind of fighting that just isn't at all likely to happen.

Very informative post that resonated well with my own opinion on the matter, especially in regards to the kind of fighting that either not at all be likely, or where the outcome will not be positive regardless of small arms that I may have at my disposal.

 

[tarosean]

A lever gun is out of the question?

 

[starling]

A lever gun is out of the question?

HaHa, I thought it was the choice of shotgun or AR but we are into hangun territory as well. In that case I would ask to borrow your MK23 outfitted with a laser, light and supressor. Some night vision equipment would be welcome as well.

Lever Action? Maybe go with a 38 special if in the Urban zone. Rural maybe 44 mag or 30-30. Pump action Timberwolf (old Action Arms carbine) might be the ticket.

Trick is never letting them get in the house. When I put in outside opening security gates they were around $100 per door.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

Do you live in CA?

Here's one of the last AR's I built.

View attachment 1106456

Mud flap PG, no flash hider, fixed stock but has a detachable mag. Having the mag feature was more important than everything else.

All the extra features are meaningless! If you spend more than a couple seconds trying to swap or reload a fixed magazine.... good luck.

This.

Go featureless and use a standard mag release.

Then get in the way-back machine and pick up some "freedom week" mags from 2019 LOL

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

The Juggernaut Tactical system makes a “California compliant” AR about as “America Legal” as anything, if an AR is what you are wanting.

But, the Mini 14/30 and other non-scary looking magazine fed semi-auto rifles are just as effective in the hands of a trained home defender without the AR stigma some states create.

Shotguns are very effective home defense firearms, My 870 would be reached for by me before my ARs or Minis would, simply because my suburban home HD plan puts it there. (If I was rural the rifle would be first .)

Another great option is a PCC like the Ruger PC 9 or similar “non scary” rifle.

Options abound, keep looking and you’ll find what you need.

Stay safe..

I really dislike the juggernaut system.

Doesn't work very fast and if you get a malfunction you have bigger problem than necessary.

Most people attend a class with juggernaut system once. Then they fix the mag release

 

[hso]

So is AR-15 with imposed limitations still the better choice

You're talking about a home defense weapon so what situation would you expect to face that a fixed 30 round capacity won't address?