FN Five seven is a cop killer gun...

[Carpe Cerevisi]

No offense intended, but i think the brady campaign called it a cop killer gun referring to the caliber. They were short to mention the .223 because the 5.7 was introduced in a pistol that people could carry and the round has been shown to defeat many layers of body armor. I dont think they meant the actual pistol, but the caliber. Here are some of my griefs in response:
1) the 5.7mm round only defeats significant amounts of body armor if the military loads are used.
2) they already have separate military loads for the .223, .300 and .308 that are not available to the public for a reason. They will simply limit the types of ammo in this caliber to the public.
3) the .22 has been shown to defeat body armor but nobody considers this tiny bullet a threat.
4) Lastly, if someone attacked a cop with the 5.7mm chances are it will be limited to 10 rounds. And if someone is dumb enough to attack a police officer with any weapon, you can believe that 16 rounds of 9mm, .40 or .45 will be flying towards them. And if that isnt enough every cop within a 20 mile radius will be racing towards the incident.

to say this is a cop killer is just plain ignorant, so is to compare the .45 or .40 to a .50 bmg as i havent seen a pistol in .50 bmg or a usable assault rifle in this caliber. just disregard the claim it is a cop killer. if you are truly worried about the control put on firearms, then dont vote a bush-type person or clinton like person into office, leaving nobody. so either way were screwed.

 

[M2 Carbine]

After seeing that video I want to buy one.
Sort of ironic, considering the Brady Campain made that movie to get rid of the gun.

The anti gun crowd has been the cause of many thousands of guns being sold.

Every time klinton opened his mouth about wanting some new restriction the guns flowed out of the gun shows and gun stores.

I heard at one point the gun distributors wanted to give klinton an award as their salesman of the year.

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

I actually wrote the Brady Campaign a little letter regarding their video. Here's exactly what I said and they gave me no response:

To whom it may concern,

Your presentation of the FN Five-Seven handgun was interesting. You brought up some points I wouldn’t have considered. It did enlighten me on some of the Five-Seven’s characteristics, however I also found a few items you may want to consider in future presentations. The main concern I have is the type of ammunition that was used. The Five-Seven shoots a 5.7mm projectile that comes in several varieties. The one used in the demonstration video was the SS190 armor piercing round. Yes it did exactly what the manufacturer claimed it would do, however a federal law in 1986 banned the manufacture, importation, and delivery of armor piercing ammunition to civilians. As a result, Fabrique Nationale developed a “civilian legal” round which consists of a lead core, copper jacket, and polymer tip. Essentially this round is a hollow point which will not defeat law enforcement body armor. In order to make a fair comparison, you may want to consider using ammunition of the same types. Otherwise it would be similar to comparing a goldfish and a piranha. They are both fish, and both swim in water, but one has a very different behavior.

Another concern I have deals with the introduction section of the video. Most law enforcement side arms have a capacity of 17+1 rounds for 9mm and 15+1 for .40 S&W. Only the latter was presented therefore making a more dramatic statement. Had you compared the 18 rounds that a typical law enforcement side arm holds there’s only a three round difference.

The final part of the introduction I wanted to address was concerning licensed concealed carry citizens. Individuals who choose to take on the added responsibility of carrying a concealed firearm subject their selves to a host of background checks, and basically allow the authorities to prod as they wish in order to be able to obtain their permit. They are very stable individuals whom I consider more responsible than the average citizen. I do not see any of them “having a bad day and it turning into a bad situation because a police officer comes in contact with them.” They respect law enforcement and work in conjunction with them, not against them. I would advise against using blanket statements about individuals without first gathering the facts and coming to a solid conclusion. I thank you for your time and concern in these matters and for presenting an issue with your concerns. I simply ask that you would present a more subjective demonstration for reasons of fairness. Give credit to both sides and allow the public to form their own opinion.

Sincerely,
Taurus 617 CCW

 

[Hellstatic]

Individuals who choose to take on the added responsibility of carrying a concealed firearm subject their selves to a host of background checks, and basically allow the authorities to prod as they wish in order to be able to obtain their permit. They are very stable individuals whom I consider more responsible than the average citizen. I do not see any of them “having a bad day and it turning into a bad situation because a police officer comes in contact with them.”
Sincerely,
Taurus 617 CCW

I can't believe they said that nonsense about ccw holders with a straight face. But I think it shows the mindset of anti's very well. They think any civilian with a gun is a ticking time bomb that could snap and shoot a cop anytime they have a bad day.

 

[GregGry]

The one used in the demonstration video was the SS190 armor piercing round

I believe the guy said SS 192 ammo, because it is availible to the public. I will watch the video again when I get home from work.

 

[IndianaDean]

In a news article in Indianapolis recently on our local Fox station, they ran a piece about how so many people in Central Indiana (5,000+ I believe they said) have ccw licenses. They interviewed a few people who carry and got their explanations. I was expecting an anti-gun slant, but they also featured LEOs who said they are not the least concerned with citizens who have ccws to carry, as it's the citizen's duty to themselves to defend themselves. It's the ones who don't have ccws and carry that concern them. The LEOs interviewed said it's an increasingly violent world and people need all the protection they can get. I was pleasantly surprised they put the positive comments in, as the hype in their promo gave me the impression it would be an anti-gun story.

 

[Big Gay Al]

In a news article in Indianapolis recently on our local Fox station, they ran a piece about how so many people in Central Indiana (5,000+ I believe they said) have ccw licenses. They interviewed a few people who carry and got their explanations. I was expecting an anti-gun slant, but they also featured LEOs who said they are not the least concerned with citizens who have ccws to carry, as it's the citizen's duty to themselves to defend themselves. It's the ones who don't have ccws and carry that concern them. The LEOs interviewed said it's an increasingly violent world and people need all the protection they can get. I was pleasantly surprised they put the positive comments in, as the hype in their promo gave me the impression it would be an anti-gun story.

God how I miss Indiana. I'll have to do some looking to see if I can find a job and move back home.

 

[DevLcL]

Not one of my firearms has EVER killed, or even injured a person! Never! My guns can't load themselves; they can't point themselves; they can't even fire themselves. I am convinced that if any gun is a "cop-killer", then dang it--I got all defective firearms! It must be a police conspiracy, becuase the police department inspected all of them. They must have traded the deadly ones for these worthless, defective guns.

On the other hand, I think that Taekwondo, Karate, Judo, swords, knives, sticks, rocks, alcohol, automobiles, planes, trains and even dogs could be potential cop-killers...be even suicide is a cop-killer. Is cancer a cop-killer? Maybe we should ban it? Is this rediculous? Sure, it's as nuts as calling ANY weapon a cop-killer.

I guess it's the person, not the weapon, huh?

Just my humble opinion,

Doc2005 :banghead:

Amen.

 

[akodo]

#1 - i've got no desire to own a 5.7, but still, I say we fight em now on thier silly ideas before it spreads.

#2 - on my old computer i had a big ass pic that detailed the new 5.7 projectile, from the FNHerstalUSA site, it is no longer there. However, if memory serves, of the 5.7 loadings, in addition to the training load and the subsonic load, there was a third dedicated handgun loade. All 3 had significantly reduced velocities (and power). While the training and subsonic is definately intended for both weapons, having a reduced load intended for the sidearm reminds me of the superhot 9mm subgun only loads. Makes me think that the performance given by the p90 does not directly translate to the FiveseveN

 

[omnivore75]

No offense intended, but i think the brady campaign called it a cop killer gun referring to the caliber. They were short to mention the .223 because the 5.7 was introduced in a pistol that people could carry and the round has been shown to defeat many layers of body armor. I dont think they meant the actual pistol, but the caliber. Here are some of my griefs in response:
1) the 5.7mm round only defeats significant amounts of body armor if the military loads are used.
2) they already have separate military loads for the .223, .300 and .308 that are not available to the public for a reason. They will simply limit the types of ammo in this caliber to the public.
3) the .22 has been shown to defeat body armor but nobody considers this tiny bullet a threat.
4) Lastly, if someone attacked a cop with the 5.7mm chances are it will be limited to 10 rounds. And if someone is dumb enough to attack a police officer with any weapon, you can believe that 16 rounds of 9mm, .40 or .45 will be flying towards them. And if that isnt enough every cop within a 20 mile radius will be racing towards the incident.

to say this is a cop killer is just plain ignorant, so is to compare the .45 or .40 to a .50 bmg as i havent seen a pistol in .50 bmg or a usable assault rifle in this caliber. just disregard the claim it is a cop killer. if you are truly worried about the control put on firearms, then dont vote a bush-type person or clinton like person into office, leaving nobody. so either way were screwed.

1: The Brady Campaign says ANYTHING THEY CAN not stopping at lying, deceiving, and basically spewing tons of the most pathetic garbage and inaccuracies imaginable in order to infringe on the constitutional rights of American gun owners. They don't want ANYONE to have a gun for ANYTHING. As far as I am concerned they are below contempt. 2: I don't know what would limit any attack of any kind with a Five Seven to 10 rounds since the gun comes with three twenty round mags right out of the box, nor do I know what would be different about 16 rounds of 9mm from a cops gun as opposed to 16 rounds of 9mm from anyone else's gun, but I agree that any assault on a police officer with an FN Five Seven pistol is probably not the best way to start the day if ya know what I mean. Can you say obvious.

 

[Rem700SD]

Forgive me if it's been mentioned in this thread, but if the 5.7 is such a superior round, wouldn't LEO's and military jump all over it? Is there any institution that's adopted this round/weapon system?
If I were an LEO, I wouldn't carry a handgun that would defeat my body armor, and the P90 looks a little anemic for something that my handgun wouldn't handle.
just my $.02

 

[omnivore75]

well, i think most can agree that the 5.7's strong point is NOT tissue damage. the round was intended for penetration of body armor and intended to be used out of a select fire, pdw type weapon - the p90. its ability to penetrate when used with a handgun is also desirable as the whole package is intended to be used by entry teams who are likely to encounter armored perps. in such a case, it is desirable to have a backup that has similar capabilities to the primary with the exception of full auto. getting through the armor is the important part and when someone takes a five round burst to the thoracic cavity, even a poor performer like the 5.7 should be pretty effective. i can't really justify buying one because the likelihood that i'll encounter armored assailants is extremely low and tissue damage is more important. i do keep a rifle in the truck and i'm going to move over to an 11 1/2" barreled ar15 "pistol" soon. i don't have any aspirations to be a hero but if i find myself in the middle of a riot, i have a better chance of making it out with a long arm and if i happen to be at the scene of a north hollywood type event, i may be able to lend a hand. who knows when terrorists will decide to shoot up the food court? okay, i need to stop there; i'm sounding more and more like gecko45

Well from what I have read the Five Seven reaches near the same velocity as the 5.7 round with the P 90, so they would indeed make great companion pieces. I would love to have a Five Seven AND a civilian legal version of the P90. Still, like you I prefer my custom AR in ANY serious situation or even my Bushy Carbon 15 type 97S pistol. With my AR and good Lake City M855 I know that I am going to get plenty of tactical penetration and great wound ballistics. I must admit I like the looks of the new Springfield SOCOM M1A with 16 in barrel though. I like the .308 round although it does have a little kick for close up work. I was looking at a nice Barrett in 6.8 the other day too but QUITE a pricetag. Undoubtedly worth it though.