Garland Texas shooting, handgun used

[ACP]

CNN is reporting it was a .45 caliber Glock

15 seconds start to finish


http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/05/us/texas-police-shooting-hero/

"He had a .45-caliber Glock pistol, a much less powerful weapon than the rifles used by the attackers, who have since been identified by federal law enforcement officials as Elton Simpson and Nadir Soofi.

"There's no advantage for a handgun over an assault rifle," said Dick Fairburn, a veteran law enforcement officer who is a columnist for PoliceOne.com. "An assault rifle has more distance, more accuracy, more power, more penetration.

"You cannot downplay what he did there."

 

[X-Rap]

On the video I've seen it appears that the parking lot at the venue was almost empty,
did the attack occur prior to the event starting?

 

[WestKentucky]

Secondary entrance according to what I just read. The cop who stopped the attack had blocked that entrance to funnel people towards the main entrance.

 

[wgp]

And compare to the Austin shooting a couple of months ago by an officer: head shot, one-handed, off-hand, 100 yards, at night, holding the reins of a horse in the other hand. I still have trouble believing that one.

I heard one report that the perps here wore body armor. Does that mean this officer made head shots?

Should give some support to the value of practicing precision use of the handgun, even if the statistics are that most gunfights are at close range.

 

[Jesse H]

Maybe this will make a lot of people, respect Glock handguns and also the .45acp.

I'm certain about anything between .380 to .45 would've done the same thing, from any other handgun, as long as it's placed in the right place.

 

[Thermactor]

The dust hasn't settled yet.
CNN initially said that the attackers had automatic weapons and grenade launchers or some such nonsense. They actually had some kind of chintzy WASRs, right?
So expect the officers gun to turn out to be something else. A CNN-reported 45-caliber Glock may end up becoming a Sig Sauer P226 firing Federal 9BPLE loads. I hope

 

[SSN Vet]

CNN says the event had been in progress for two hours (which is probably why traffic was light) .... the two jihadis were also wearing body armor.

The Dutch politician who made the YouTube video "Fitna" video (a must see imo, if you want to understand Jihad) was speaking at the convention... and since he's had been on the Jihadi's hit list for years, they booked $10K in extra security....

Three words...


Training, Training, Training....

Sadly, the officer who downed the Jihadis (and his family) is now a target in his own home... so their trying to conceal his identity....

Only in America

You just can't make this "stuff" up.

 

[1911 guy]

Quote:
Maybe this will make a lot of people, respect Glock handguns and also the .45acp.

Something tells me the officer could have pulled this off with a S&W M10 in .38SPCL. How many times do we have to be reminded that it's not the arrow, it's the indian?

Besides, everybody knows that Glocks suck and .45acp is overrated. Sorry, had to stir the pot.

 

[jmace57]

" Does that mean this officer made head shots?"

I an tell you from early, unedited film that at least one of them was a headshot.

 

[RVN11B]

I am having a bit of a problem believing those morons were wearing body armor. Load bearing vests sure! But armor?

I will wait until more details emerge on this situation. Particularly details on the actual shootout between the officer and the punks.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Body armor is easy to find. Even interceptor style armor.

As for the Glock or not, lots of LEO use Glocks so I don't doubt it was one.

And from all the empty brass found, and glass, I bet he Winchestered his gun shooting through the car glass. Head shots? If they were sitting in the car what other shots would be available?

And that cop is welcome to my table anytime.

Deaf

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

This:

I'm certain about anything between .380 to .45 would've done the same thing, from any other handgun, as long as it's placed in the right place.

... makes this:

"There's no advantage for a handgun over an assault rifle," said Dick Fairburn, a veteran law enforcement officer who is a columnist for PoliceOne.com. "An assault rifle has more distance, more accuracy, more power, more penetration."

... irrelevant.

Woody

 

[Jesse H]

Level IV rig can be purchased for around $400, both front and back curved plates along with carrier.

 

[WestKentucky]

I live beside a mitary base...decent armor is easy to find. Just buy the plate carriers and plates separately. It's truly not difficult to get some pretty fair gear.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Questions .....

There seem to be a lot of questions about what happened and how things really went down.
Like the 12/2012 Sandy Hook CT incident I wouldn't go by every news report or detail.
Remember in that incident, the national media repeatedly quoted and interviewed a teacher who "witnessed" the events.
Later, it was uncovered the woman was neither a teacher or connected to the school/school district & was no where near the shooting scene, .

I'm confused about who got shot in the leg. The unarmed security officer working the event? Or the police officer who shot and killed the terrorists?
I've seen and heard conflicting details.
I also don't understand how the terrorist's vehicle was blown up/fire.
Did the cop with the Glock 21 .45acp hit the vehicle gas tank? Were there bombs or IEDs in the back? I can see how a Glock 21 .45acp could crack the auto glass or bust up the fiberglass but the crime scene looks like a bazooka hit it, .

Finally, did the first responder not have a carbine or M4? I thought many LE agencies big & small were going with the "active shooter" response. Other cops on the scene had rifles and SMGs but not the cop who shoots the terrorists?
If I had to arm/train a PD in 05/2015, I'd consider a SIG P320 .40 or .357sig with a MPX .40/.357sig select fire or semi-auto for critical incidents. A deputy or police officer could use the same caliber in either weapon & with the MPX compact, the LE officer could add a optics-scope, white light, sound surpressor, laser, etc.
Many of the PDs, big & small near me use ARs or 12ga shotguns. In 2015, more cops should always have some type of carbine or rifle with scopes/optics.

Rusty
PS: not to knock the Texas event security guard either, but he should have been armed, . Unarmed security guards shouldn't be lax or unaware of what or who is around them.
There have been a few violent crimes in my area where guards with no guns or weapons were assaulted on duty. If you do unarmed details, know who the client is or what the conditions are. I did a recent security post that was a complete mess, . The client was totally unprepared and our(my ) safety were at risk. It wasn't violent but more of a traffic-public safety/crowd control issue.

 

[1911 guy]

Maybe they were just wearing LBE. Maybe they were wearing armor. Although top quality armor costs serious coin, serviceable stuff can be had much less expensively. In three minutes of google-fu, I found Level III plates (front and back set) for 300 bucks and a decent carrier for 125. Not bad for less than the price of a good handgun.

 

[dogtown tom]

RustyShackelford

I'm confused about who got shot in the leg. The unarmed security officer working the event?
Correct

Or the police officer who shot and killed the terrorists?
No, he was not injured.

I also don't understand how the terrorist's vehicle was blown up/fire.
FBI used explosives to blow open the trunk as well as a couple of suspicious packages.

Did the cop with the Glock 21 .45acp hit the vehicle gas tank?
No. The explosive charges were not set off until several hours later.
Were there bombs or IEDs in the back?
No explosives were found.

I can see how a Glock 21 .45acp could crack the auto glass or bust up the fiberglass but the crime scene looks like a bazooka hit it, .
Look at the early (before dark) photos and video. The blackened areas and damage occurred several hours later when the FBI blew it up.

Finally, did the first responder not have a carbine or M4?
In the car, but not deployed. When the bad guys drove up and parked near the police car, the police officer and security officer got out and approached suspects car, bad guys then got out and started firing, wounding the security officer in the ankle. Police officer returned fire killing both bad guys.

I thought many LE agencies big & small were going with the "active shooter" response. Other cops on the scene had rifles and SMGs but not the cop who shoots the terrorists?
Bad guys were dead almost immediately......and Garland SWAT did respond immediately, being inside the building and at other locations. The officer involved was like many others, deployed around the perimeter of the building, in the parking lot and entrances to the parking lot.


If I had to arm/train a PD in 05/2015, I'd consider a SIG P320 .40 or .357sig with a MPX .40/.357sig select fire or semi-auto for critical incidents.
Few officers would rather be armed with a pistol caliber carbine vs an AR. The use of PCC's in law enforcement and military use is virtually nonexistent.


A deputy or police officer could use the same caliber in either weapon & with the MPX compact, the LE officer could add a optics-scope, white light, sound surpressor, laser, etc.
They already have AR's......why move to a less powerful round?
Many of the PDs, big & small near me use ARs or 12ga shotguns. In 2015, more cops should always have some type of carbine or rifle with scopes/optics.
As do nearly all LE in the Dallas area.

Rusty
PS: not to knock the Texas event security guard either, but he should have been armed, . Unarmed security guards shouldn't be lax or unaware of what or who is around them.
Security guards are not sworn LE and do not have the same responsibilities. While I think every adult male should be armed, his job does not allow it.


There have been a few violent crimes in my area where guards with no guns or weapons were assaulted on duty. If you do unarmed details, know who the client is or what the conditions are. I did a recent security post that was a complete mess, . The client was totally unprepared and our(my ) safety were at risk. It wasn't violent but more of a traffic-public safety/crowd control issue.
Texas law does not give a security guard the personal choice to go armed/unarmed. They must possess a commission from the state that allows carrying a firearm.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Thanks dogtown! .....

I stand by my remarks but I the post helped clear up the events.
PCCs or SMGs that are compact/modular are better than a 12ga shotgun or full size AR you leave in a patrol vehicle.
Also, I'm aware of Texas DPS/security standards after Rita, Katrina, Ivan etc, .
I'm not saying a security guard should choose, it's just common sense and logic. That's if the security firm or client gave the guard the background and details. Which, doing security work for near 25 years, I can tell you most special events are not properly organized or staffed.
Unarmed officers need to be alert and aware of the surroundings. Some security officers stare at their cell phones or iPads all day or they are lazy-inept.
No guard should be unarmed either. In my area, unarmed security can still carry EDWs(Tasers), OC spray, impact weapons, etc.

I was unaware of the bomb squad/FBI blowing up the terrorist vehicle. I thought it was caused by the shoot out.

 

[jlr1962]

Good work by the Garland cops. It take guts to be a cop in Garland on any given day, or anywhere else for that matter. I hope the injured officer fully recovers from his wound.

 

[dogtown tom]

RustyShackelford I stand by my remarks but I the post helped clear up the events.
PCCs or SMGs that are compact/modular are better than a 12ga shotgun or full size AR you leave in a patrol vehicle.
How many police officers direct traffic with a PCC or SMG?
This was a traffic unit parked in the parking lot and wasn't the only officer on duty.........there were dozens.





Also, I'm aware of Texas DPS/security standards after Rita, Katrina, Ivan etc, .
I'm not saying a security guard should choose, it's just common sense and logic.
It has nothing to do with common sense or logic.........it's STATE LAW. Noncommissioned security officers absolutely cannot be armed while on duty or in uniform. They are not the same as law enforcement. If a noncommissioned security officer is in possession of a firearm, either concealed or open....he is in violation of the law and subject to arrest.

That's if the security firm or client gave the guard the background and details.
The security officer was employed by the school district that owns the building & property. I would imagine his only duties are to observe and report.

Which, doing security work for near 25 years, I can tell you most special events are not properly organized or staffed.
This one was.
As with nearly every event on school property in Texas, there will be local LE in addition to school district security.



No guard should be unarmed either. In my area, unarmed security can still carry EDWs(Tasers), OC spray, impact weapons, etc.
Texas law requires a certain level of training and a certification before any security officer can carry ANYTHING. That's a good law.......if your security needs weapons, you need real LE.
Carry an "impact weapon" like a nightstick or billy club in Texas and you'll go to jail.

 

[ridgerunner1965]

maybe terrorists will give texas a wide berth now?


i can hear some of them talking amongst themselves "hey lets go to texas and shoot some people in the name of mohammed" other terrorist says "o hell no them cowboys shoot too good!!!!"

 

[Thermactor]

One thing is for sure, one cowboy sure did shoot very well and will give any future idiots cause to pause.

 

[DeepSouth]

I am having a bit of a problem believing those morons were wearing body armor. Load bearing vests sure! But armor?

What's the difference, not sarcastically. I'm ignorant, I can't say I've ever heard of a load bearing vest.

 

[dogtown tom]

DeepSouth Quote:
I am having a bit of a problem believing those morons were wearing body armor. Load bearing vests sure! But armor?

What's the difference, not sarcastically. I'm ignorant, I can't say I've ever heard of a load bearing vest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Integrated_Fighting_System

 

[RustyShackelford]

Dallas Morning News...,

I read a recent media item by the Dallas Morning News.
Reportedly the local LE agencies were aware of the serious threats and demands this high profile event had.
SWAT, DPS, patrol cops etc were all over.
The unarmed guard was with the police officer, they both got out. The security guard, a ex cop, was hit in the ankle. The police officer smoked both terrorists with his Glock 21 .45acp sidearm. He might of used G2 RIP or Extreme Shock USA loads, .