Ghost guns

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by Doug Doglock, Apr 7, 2021.

  1. Doug Doglock

    Doug Doglock Member

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    This is in no way meant to be political, I'm genuinely curious. I'll move this to the "law" forum if it's inappropriate here. So it's being reported that part of President Biden's executive order regarding guns will restrict the online sale of "ghost guns". According to the news these are guns that can be bought online as kits, where the user assembles them and there's no serial number.

    So are flintlock kits or even the Uberti 1860 Army I just bought considered ghost guns? I've had my eye on a Jim Chambers fowler for a while so if I have to jump through hoops with background checks I might buy this sooner than later.
     
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  2. robhof

    robhof Member

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    NOT YET, currently B/P weapons are still considered antiques and replicas, that could change with this administration, as soon as someone does a mass shooting with a B/P gun!
     
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  3. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    Remember the high capacity 50 caliber muzzleloader genius that Tucker Carlson made a fool of... that guy is indicative of what the morons leading the charge are like. So for all intents and purposes... get em’ while they are hot.
     
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  4. milsurpguy

    milsurpguy Member

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    BP are the original ghost guns. Can't trace the gun, can't trace the ammo, especially if it was a patched ball. One could potentially cast their own bullet, make their black powder from hardware store or landscape supplies and make their own caps or flint lock or wheel lock or anything you can imagine ignition system.
     
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  5. 44 Dave

    44 Dave Member

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    Do the bp kit guns have a serial number?
     
  6. brewer12345

    brewer12345 Member

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    I wonder how long black powder guns will continue to be shipped through the mail.
     
  7. Ephraim Kibbey

    Ephraim Kibbey Member

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    These kits have Serial Numbers:
    DIY Hakwen Rifle Kit Thompson/Center Arms Muzzle Loading Rifle - Black Powder Rifles & Muzzleloader Rifles at GunBroker.com : 897271064
    Snake Eyes Muzzleloader double barrel pistol kit 36 cal. - Black Powder Pistols & Muzzleloader Pistols at GunBroker.com : 897352691
    36 Cal Pepperbox NO FFL - Black Powder Pistols & Muzzleloader Pistols at GunBroker.com : 894405926
    It has been a very long time since I built a BP revolver from a kit but I think it had a serial number on it.
    Since the BP guns are not "firearms," they do not have to go through an FFL holder except in a few states like Illinois. This means that there is no record of who bought what serial numbered gun. As sold, however, they would still not be considered these "Ghost" guns whether factory assembled or made by kit because they are not "firearms" according to federal law. Now if one were to install a conversion cylinder, I do not know how the new ATF rule will treat it. It then would be a firearm and there would be no record of its sale so maybe??? The new ATF rules may also effect BP revolvers with conversion cylinders if fitted with a stock. Since the Boulder, Colo. shooter used a modern "automatic pistol" with an attached stock, the ATF has been directed to include that combination as an illegal short barreled rifle because of its concealability. Definitely the new rules will need some clarification.
     
  8. grter

    grter Member

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    "Now if one were to install a conversion cylinder, I do not know how the new ATF rule will treat it. It then would be a firearm and there would be no record of its sale so maybe??? The new ATF rules may also effect BP revolvers with conversion cylinders if fitted with a stock."

    There is nothing new here. If you install a conversion cylinder on a cap and ball revolver that is not a rifle you created a handgun that is considered a firearm. You cannot use a shoulder stock on it unless you register it as a short barrel rifle. That is just federal law you also have find out what your local laws are concerning this.
     
  9. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    Off topic...but the recent boulder colorado shooting was mentioned...anyone notice that a lot of these mass shootings happen in a small radius around Boulder,CO? Ever since the colombine school shooting in the late 90s there have been several within about a 40 mile radius. Maybe somethings in the water? MK-ultra testing? Who knows...but i find it strange.
     
  10. Blackpowderwarrior

    Blackpowderwarrior Member

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    Mk ultra and false flags
    By now many Americans are waking up to just how sinister and psychotic the powers that be are.
    The even scarier thing is this: many and i mean many, are dead asleep.
     
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  11. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    Colorado is not as strange as how many mass murderers are so young, too frequently 20 - 21 year olds.
    1. --->>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Dayton_shooting#:~:text=On August 4, 2019, 24,the first shots were fired.
    2. --->>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_El_Paso_shooting
    3. --->>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Boulder_shooting
    4. --->>> https://apnews.com/article/georgia-massage-parlor-shootings-leave-8-dead-f3841a8e0215d3ab3d1f23d489b7af81
    5. --->>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_church_shooting
    6. --->>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting
     
  12. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    Somethin just aint right.... And I don't trust the gubment. Things are just too suspicious. I need a new tin foil hat....anyone want me to make them one too?
     
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  13. gobsauce

    gobsauce Member

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    I was actually across the street, at the Tandy Leather Shop when the El Paso shooting happened. Good thing I avoid malls like the plague.
     
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  14. ShotgunDave

    ShotgunDave Member

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    I'll take one of them tinfoil hats. Mine is plum wore out.
     
  15. woodnbow
    • Contributing Member

    woodnbow Contributing Member

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    Does at least some part of you wish you had been inside that Walmart and armed? One armed citizen could have saved a lot of lives.
     
  16. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Moderator Staff Member

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    There is nothing in federal law exempting a firearm from the normal federal laws regarding firearms merely because the propellant is black powder.

    The issue is whether the gun is an "antique firearm" as defined by federal law. Antique firearms (as defined by federal law) are not regulated the same way as normal firearms. That's true whether or not they have serial numbers. And whether or not they use black powder.

    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-guides-importation-verification-firearms-ammunition-gun-control-act-definitions-0

    Cap & ball revolvers are "antique firearms" as defined by federal law. It is not, in general, illegal to buy a conversion cylinder, nor to install it, however while the cylinder is installed, the revolver is no longer considered to be an "antique firearm" under federal law since it has been: "designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition". All normal federal firearm laws apply to the revolver while the conversion cylinder is installed. Once it is returned to its original configuration (note that this implies that the revolver itself was not modified to accommodate the conversion cylinder), it resumes being an "antique firearm".
     
  17. gobsauce

    gobsauce Member

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    In August 2019, I was 20. Couldn't carry. But yes, I do. I know for a damned fact that if i saw him in the parking lot, I'd have done something, anything, to stop him. I sincerely don't understand this city.

    I grew up in this city. Sure, i grew up rubbing shoulders with Sicarios and Zetas , but that was just the territory the good lord blessed me with. I would gladly defend my city even if it was a fight I knew i wouldn't walk away from. I'm saddened,deeply at what happened, and know that a single armed civilian would've made a difference.
     
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  18. Steel Horse Rider

    Steel Horse Rider Member

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    The Colorado shooting stretch in my opinion is probably due to legalized pot more than any government program. Early and continuous pot use leads to schizophrenia and paranoia according to a lot of studies which are ignored by the press and the government (or is that redundant?). But in the Progressive era Guns = bad, Pot = good.
     
  19. HowieG

    HowieG Member

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    Interesting, but the pot abusers I have known have always been less than ambitious. Paranoid yes, but pretty laid back lazy paranoid. Like lock the doors and windows and flake out on the couch.
     
  20. vintovka

    vintovka Member

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    Passing laws easy. Enforcing not so much. At show today boxes of 80% AR lowers sold out at 300%. Most did not make it in the building. Complete rifles, kits and magazines also sold fast, Go figure.

    (predict this thread will close soon)
     
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  21. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    Pot is not the issue for gun violence...at all. I have known tons of pot heads and most of them dont care for violence much less guns. I worked at a clinic that helped rehabilitate drug addicts and those who only smoked pot rarely if ever had a violent crime and 99% of them didnt know a thing about guns much less own one. Most gun experience they had was taking hits from the bong while playing shooting games on their game players or watching action movies. If pot were the driving force then every state that has legalized recreational pot would have the same violent issues and more states wouldnt be legalizing pot. Most addicts who were into guns were usually coacaine/meth users...and also had violent crimes/cases on their records. Funny thing was that we learned crack/coacaine and especially meth users dont like pot and vice a versa....they usually stuck to their drug of choice. Most of the meth/coke users owned guns or had commited crimes with a firearm. I speak from experience having to work with hundreds of these drug users. Pot is Not and never has been the problem.
     
  22. vintovka

    vintovka Member

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    Being a regular SHOT show attendee I have watched the ML/BP industry up front and personal. I have Met most of the "biggies" over the decades and seen the trends both up and down. This Ghost gun thing may really affect our hobby but not how you may think. Every time Govt does something even remotely anti gun it spurs ALL gun sales. Controls on the most modern arms seems to increase interest in anything that is more readily accessible like BP/ML. IMHO Cheap Milsurps and ammo put the biggest dent in BP interest. Now that that is over and I see the BP/ML market bouncing back. If govt actual enforces this ghost gun (and other anti-2A) non sense it may really boost BP/ML popularity. Add in the combination modern ammo shortages , run away inflation , steel prices (and growing fear levels) and it will be an interesting time for our hobby.
     
  23. vintovka

    vintovka Member

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    Our best local auto repair shop may close due to pot issues. They have fired almost a dozen employees due to pot use and workmanship. Many more have been turned away. Labor cost is way, way up too. Under current laws failing a routine drug test means suspension of Workman's Comp coverage and all that that entails. I know one young mechanic who spent big bucks on training and multiple certifications is now unemployable due to pot use. Seems when you fail your info is reported. Also ATF is reportedly cross checking 4473's and recorded drug purchases here in OR. Tied up our LGS for a week! Wonder what they will do?
     
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  24. Jackrabbit1957

    Jackrabbit1957 Member

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    Most potheads I knew just wanted to toke that joint and then go to sleep in the corner. Never saw one that got violent. They just drifted through the day in a fog and got stoned when they had the chance.
     
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  25. grter

    grter Member

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    It's called :what::what::what::what::what::what: REEFER MADNESS :what::what::what::what::what::what:a terrible pandemic symptoms are wide saucer eyeballs, foaming at the mouth,, and general MADNESS :uhoh: :confused: :uhoh:
     
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