Give Me Your Wallet

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RioShooter

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I recently did an IDPA scenario called "Give me your wallet" where you throw down your wallet with your weak hand while simultaneously drawing your weapon with the strong hand and firing four shots.

I realized I couldn't do this using my normal strong side wallet carry. I now carry my wallet on the weak side.

How many of you have considered this strategy?

Previous threads have addressed wallet carry, but not with consideration of dropping the wallet and shooting at the same time.
 
Even better than throwing the wallet down is simply handing it over. If they're reaching for a relatively small object, a motor action that requires precision, it's by far your best chance. Just put your non-drawing hand and shoulder forward as you extend the wallet to naturally swing your arm to your strong-side weapon and your body will help conceal your arm movements while you draw.
If you can time the draw to when they're first grasping the wallet, you got them. In fact, try it at home. Have someone pretend to mug you while you hand the wallet over. When they first get within about 6-inches of grasping the wallet and the first contact, they're entire attention is focused of grabbing the wallet and they won't fire despite knowing what you're trying. It's a weird motor control thing.

Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )
 
If i go out at night or the weekends i carry a 'fake' wallet in my back pocket. My real wallet is in my front left pocket.

The 'fake' wallet contains old cards and a few 1$ bills. Toss it at em, if they run, all is well, if they look, kick em in the nuts, head, and stomp em.
 
I like the "fake wallet" idea.

Btw, I doubt giving the wallet guarantees anything. They can still shoot you in the head. Thus compliance is likely pointless. Also, many of these creeps keep doing this exactly because they play upon the sheeple's willingness to comply.
 
Well, I would like to think that most people are intelligent enough to determine that the contents of the their wallet isn't worth taking a slug over. You should only take violent action if you believe the assailant will kill you anyway, and believe me, you'll be able to tell.

Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )
 
Wallet is in either back pocket, or if cargo pants, thigh pocket. Front pocket, where a wallet might be expected to be, instead has the thing they don't wanna see pointed at them...a pocket auto.

That'd be pulled out instead of the wallet, and if they're armed, unloaded at them.
 
Some of the responses are a bit naive, although I have seen them taught or explained in the literature in multiple places.

Most of the mugging (Give me yoru wallet) scenario responses assume there is only one bad guy. According to stats provided by the Dallas Police, that accounts for only about 40% of the time. The other particiipant(s) may not be directly in your view and may be serving simply as lookouts or as backups to the person with whom you are dealing. In other words, just because you see only one threat definitely does not mean that only one threat is visible. So, for the scenarios where you try to toss the wallet as a distraction or want to hand over your wallet to excercise the bad guy's mental function such that you can draw and fire on the bad guy really may be a bad idea because he may not be the only guy with a gun trained on you. The question at that point becomes one of just how good is your situational awareness such that you think you will out draw on a drawn gun or knife of the bad guy known to you and still evade being injured or killed by the potential bad guy not known to you? Are you sure you are actually dealing with just one bad guy?

So you want to toss your wallet as a distraction to give you enough time to draw and fire your gun before the bad guy can react to your movement. Here, you are drawing on a drawn gun or knife, maybe a club. If you hand is not already on your gun, just how quickly can you cold draw your gun from concealment and fire that first shot accurately enough to strike the bad guy, hopefully accurately enough to incapacitate him? I have run through this with several folks, some multiple times. We would have guys come in to our range sessions and without downloading carry ammo and changing over to range ammo we would have them come out to the firing line, put on muffs and glasses, and time a Mozambique (2 chest, 1 head) at 7 yards. Granted, mugging distance is much closer. What many fail to realize is that the location of their gun may change during the course of carry or may be in a slightly different position on one pair of pants versus another. Maybe they are wearing a sweat shirt to conceal their gun instead of a vest.

Keep in mind we didn't give the guys a chance to stop, adjust their gun, cinch up their pants, or anything... just straight in, drop gear bad, come to firing line for muffs and glasses and shoot timed. We found guys to be as much as a half second slower on their first shot when drawn cold than after they had warmed up. In shooting cold at 7 yards, we had guys actually miss 1 or 2 of the three shots made as part of the drill and surprisingly, the first body shot was often the shot missed. Unfortunately, it was rare to have a shooter make all three shots in the correct areas in a time that was within 3/4 of a second of their shooting after warmed up. Overall completion times were up to 1 second slower than after the shooter had warmed up and hitting all three shots in the correct areas.

One of the biggest problems was getting that initial grip on the gun for the draw. Unrealized to many shooters, tucked shirts usually close to the body can become untucked during the course of a day and the initial grips on the guns sometimes included a wad of shirt that hindered proper manipulation of the gun. While I don't recall any range safety issues that actually put any shooters in harm's way, one shooter (my name withheld) managed to shoot a side wall of the indoor range, completely missing the target by about 5 feet and a result of the wad of shirt gripped with the gun being pulled taught just as full extension shooting postion was reached, causing the gun to twist to the side as the first shot was being made.

It was suggested that handing the wallet to the mugger will require more fine motor skills on his part, thereby allowing one to draw and fire. It is a novel idea that assumes the guy has poorer motor skills than you have, which may or may not be true, and assures that if you are already not in very close proximity to the bad guy that you need to be closer. The motor skills of a teenaged mugger may be a good bit better than that of a 40 or 50 year old intended victim. So by being close and having the bad guy use more of his fine motor skills, you are able to draw and fire a gun carried concealed in 1.5 to 2.5 seconds against a drawn gun or knife? Let's see, even if the bad guy had a slow response and it takes him a full second to start pulling the trigger of his drawn gun after you start your draw, he will still be firing before you. Maybe you will benefit from his being drunk or stoned such that his neural responses are slowed. Then again, maybe he is hopped up on speed and has faster responses.

The one thing that trying to hand over the wallet will do, if you are already not there, is to put you in that much of a closer position to the bad guy. The closer your proximity to danger, the greater the likelihood of you getting hurt. A lack of distance to the threat can negate the need for skill by the threat in order to harm you. Sure, your chances of hitting the threat improve as well, but it isn't about whether or not you hit the target better than the target hits you, but about not getting hit. It does little good to kill your attacker if you are similarly mortally wounded as well, or suffer debilitating injuries that destroy your ability to enjoy life.

A few years ago, there was a great article that really brought to light the fact that proximity negates skill. In the article the intended victim was an elderly paraplegic who was confined to a wheelchair. Some guy figured the codger in the wheelchair would be an easy score and threatened the codger who did not give up his wallet. Keep in mind that the paraplegic old guy wasn't just paraplegic, but also legally blind. The bad guy started beating the codger in the wheel chair who managed to grab his attacker with one hand and produced a revolver from under the blanket in his lap with the other hand and placed it into the side of the attacker where he fired just one shot that produced a "one shot stop."
 
95 percent of the time....

I go out with my wife. We are both armed. We practice "I don't have my wallet, car keys, etc, to distract a perp from one of us. Which will allow a draw and fire as the perp is distracted by the other partner. When we are approached by someone in a parking lot, we separate by several feet so a perp will have to divide his attention. I carry one of my guns in a man purse which is very easy to grab the gun. I will jus shoot through the purse as I am handing it to the perp. I am a grey haired old fart who will fake chest pains and ask to access my "medicine" in my pocket/purse. I always am aware of my surroundings when I go out.....You can't be too careful out there......I am elgible to retire this month. When that happens I will move out of the friggin' city to my camp in the woods.........chris3
 
My thought here was that throwing the wallet would distract the BG momentarily, giving me the time to draw.

I fully agree with this. This is %50 of the equation of why my wallet is weakside. Also, I don't want to scare the sheeple when I pay for my Venti Mocha Latte nonfat.
Once, in blockbuster, I had my hands full of squirming child. My wife, having forgotten her wallet, proceeds to pull my shirt up and expose my IWB handgun to everyone within a 100' radius, to take my wallet to pay. I was a little annoyed to say the least.....

Double Naught:
Interesting information and theories. I'd prefer to keep my distance from the attacker(s), and tossing the wallet increases my chances of being able to defend myself.
Also, another thought....the badguy(s) have the drop on you. You pull weakside wallet, throw it and they take it and run. Sucks to be you, but you go home in one piece.
You pull strong side wallet, and they see your gun. Now, they either want your gun, to commit further crimes with/sell/disarm you, or they just shoot you in reaction.

There is no magic bullet. There is no standard response to every scenerio. But, by the simple act of keeping my wallet off-hand, I keep my strong hand free if I have to reach for my wallet unexpectedly.
 
I carry wallet and gun both strong side. I don't buy the "hand over the wallet weak hand and draw your weapon strong hand" thing. Too much going on. Most BG's are not known for their intelligence but I'm betting a few would be able to spot the strong hand disappear behind your back. Movement draws attention. With both my wallet and gun on the same side the BG is expecting me to reach behind my back and pull something out. BG will be thinking he's got a compliant victim so he's still happy. Meanwhile, all the sudden I'm inside his OODA loop and he's reacting to me, not the other way around. By the time the BG figures out what's happening he'll be suffering from multiple perforations.

If the situation warrants, draw and shoot. Regardless of where you keep your wallet. It's that simple. No need to make it overly complicated. In fact it doesn't matter where your wallet is. Right, Left, Who cares...
 
Edited to comply with Forum Rule #4 - BR would you actually shoot someone who is demanding your wallet? why don't you just go to jail now and save the hassle..

guy wants your wallet? use PEPPER SPRAY, give him a fake wallet or give him ur wallet.. your life is NOT in danger. if your gonna have a bad a$$ attitude and shoot any dude that demands your wallet, then you shouldn't be carrying unless you wanna end up in jail soon.


lets say the BG pulled out a pocket knife and demanded your wallet and you killed him.. how are you going to pull an excuse out of your butt and say you could have avoided the situation by just tossing your wallet to the prosecutor of the victims family thats sueing you and the state and the rights for other good CCW people to carry in your state?
 
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guy wants your wallet? use PEPPER SPRAY, give him a fake wallet or give him ur wallet.. your life is NOT in danger.

So if some scumbag came up to you or a loved one, and jammed a revolver in your ribcage, and demanded your wallet, you would not feel that your life were endangered??
 
are you guys idiots?

-1st THIS IS A GUN ENTHUSIAST FORUM. It's implied in the question.

-2nd, and I quote myself,
If the situation warrants,...
Meaning the threat of severe bodily injury or death is present.

lets say the BG pulled out a pocket knife and demanded your wallet and you killed him.. how are you going to pull an excuse out of your butt and say you could have avoided the situation by just tossing your wallet to the prosecutor of the victims family thats sueing you and the state and the rights for other good CCW people to carry in your state?

I would much rather give up my wallet and let the BG go on his merry way if the option presented itself. But in this scenario that's not the case. With regards to the above statement, a knife at close range is more deadly than any handgun ever will be. Ever heard of the Tueller Drill??? Google it and learn. The basic premise being an edged weapon presentation inside of 21' (that's right, FEET!) should be considered an imminent deadly threat.

To answer your question directly; I'm well within my rights to defend myself, period.
 
lets say the BG pulled out a pocket knife and demanded your wallet and you killed him.. how are you going to pull an excuse out of your butt and say you could have avoided the situation by just tossing your wallet to the prosecutor of the victims family thats sueing you and the state and the rights for other good CCW people to carry in your state?

Even in states that are very hostile to concealed carry, pulling a knife is lethal force and you are entirely within your rights to defend yourself from death or serious injury if you believe it is imminent.

A guy saying "I have a knife, give me your money" pretty much meets that requirement. It is an implied threat to do you serious bodily injury at a minimum. No state has a law saying you have to submit to robbery first and hope things get better from there.

Now if you want to make the practical point that shooting at anybody, even justifiablly, is going to be a LOT harder on your wallet than practically any robbery attempt, you might have a point.
 
For some of you guys, it's all fun and games.

I receive reports of armed muggings every week from the mailing list of a major university in the area. The perps have started working in pairs and trios and are getting more and more brazen. They have switched to daytime attacks in open streets. I wonder what LAPD Chief Bacca has to say about the protection he is providing to the common citizens who are otherwise practically precluded from CCW, while the perps seem unimpeded in their access to guns.
 
BG: "Give me your wallet!"

Me: "You give me your knife!"

:D

UWstudent: Are you guys idiots? Would you actually shoot someone who is demanding your wallet? Why don't you just go to jail now and save the hassle...
No, yes, and because jail isn't worth the hassle.
Guy wants your wallet? Use PEPPER SPRAY, give him a fake wallet or give him your (real) wallet... your life is NOT in danger. If you're gonna have a bad-ass attitude and shoot any dude that demands your wallet, then you shouldn't be carrying unless you wanna end up in jail soon.
Mail me your wallet, then... If you don't comply, I shall be forced to mail a knife to you, which must be returned with (as you so lavishly put it) "ur f'in wallet." Since you won't take the initiative to defend yourself, you're essentially saying it's okay. I expect delivery in no more than two weeks. ;)
Let's say the BG pulled out a pocket knife and demanded your wallet and you killed him. How are you going to pull an excuse out of your butt and say you could have avoided the situation by just tossing your wallet to the prosecutor of the victim's family that's suing you, the state, and the rights for other good CCW people to carry in your state?
Because I was in fear for my life, and fearing imminent bodily harm. In this state, no judge would allow (at least, in this situation) a family of an aggressor (meaning the knife-weilding maniac) to sue somebody that was lawfully carrying and lawfully defended their life. Nothing needs to come from my posterior, then...

(Quotes edited for ease of reading... (C) 2006 Ze Grammar Nazis)
 
I would think that any mugging attempt would qualify for a deadly force response. First, if someone walks up to you and demands your wallet, they obviously have the means and will to do you great bodily harm if you fail to comply, right? Even if you can't see a weapon, you must assume that either they have one, or their martial arts skills are such that they could kick the crap out of Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris simultaneously without breaking a sweat. Ergo, if they demand your wallet they are capable and willing to do you great bodily harm. No if, ands or buts.

A mugging is about compellance. You have something they want. They must have to have the means of compelling you to do their will. They have to instill fear of harm or death in the victim in order for the victim to comply. Therefore, if someone holds you up, your life is in danger.

Shoot.
 
My draw goes like this...

I take my wallet with my strong hand, and rotate at the shoulder and fully extend my arm to hand it to my potential assailant. Just as he reaches up to take it, I drop it and run like the friggin' wind.

There's nothing important in my wallet on a day-to-day basis anyway. If he wants the wallet, fine. Take it. I'm getting the hell out of there.
 
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