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Fastbolt asks:
The part I didn't know, however, was that they'd removed the SIGARMS DAO pistol from the list. How long ago did that happen, just out of curiosity?
Years ago!
They initially held the Rugers off the approved list due to some perceived affront at Rodman's Neck, and because the T&E submission pistol has a magazine problem. After making Ruger sweat a bit, the pistols were added, and shortly thereafter, the SIGs… you're right, they
were SIGArms, not SIG-Sauers… were de-listed.
Reason given: "
Too expensive."
Of course, that makes no sense since MOS purchase their own, and therefore had a choice to make on the $$$ account, but that was NYPD's story, and they've stuck to it.
Onmilo adds:
Dean Speir you do not need to be polite about your view of my assertion that manufacturer recommendations were not followed.
Fair enough… you made an unsupportable generalization, and got called on it. And all the unpunctuated backing and filling isn't gonna undo that rung bell.
There was even… the very first verified report in my not inconsiderable body of experience… a 9 X 19mm
kB! at the S&W Winter Nationals in February 2004… the round was "
factory" PMC.
I have never been a fan of the .40 caliber considering it a hasty solution to a non-existant problem.
On the "
hasty" part we will concur… S&W's Steve "Ol' Gun o'the Month" Melvin saw an opportunity to steal a march on the competition, and decreed that there should be a .40 caliber round capable of being launched from a 9 X 19mm-sized platform, and with the complicity of Olin, debuted the .40S&W/Models 4006 at the 1990 SHOT Show, coincidentally the very SHOW Show at which Gaston and company, with the spectacular help of
Ms. Sharon Dillon (no relation to Mike has even been established), debuted the first large-frame Glock, the 10mm Model 20.
In my never quite humble-enough opinion, derived from subsequent events and personal experience, there were four major flaws in that joint introduction:
- In the hope of attracting interest in Quantico, it was decided that the default projectile weight be 180-grains, the same weight as the FBI's recently adopted low impulse 10mm round.
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- S&W's Project Engineer Kevin Foley determined that the 180-grain .40 S&W round required a 1:16½-twist barrel. As late as March 1994, at the Fort Lauderdale seminar occasioned by the unveiling of the Sigma, Kevin was holding fast to that opinion despite growing evidence that 1:16½-twist and 180-grains were not a marriage made in handgun heaven. (Upon information and belief, he's subsequently rethought this matter.)
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- In order to obtain nominal muzzle velocity parity with the FBI's 180-grain JHP from Federal within the rest of the design parameters, the wizards in East Alton's end product was at the upper end of the allowable pressure spectrum.
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- The entire process was rushed, as you've noted… and executives from both Smith & Wesson and Winchester put the blame for that on the other company's shoulders. (Knowing Melvin as I came to do, I like him for that mantle.)
Ironically, as far back as 1991, little CorBon had loaded a 165-grain JHP which shot like it had aspirations to making its mark at Wapwallopen. Both my colleague Charlie Petty and I independently spoke to different contacts with the FTU in Quantico about this development, and they pursued this over the years until finally, the 165-grain JHP because for all intents and purposes, the new .40 S&W default. (And the reason for the delay in even approving the chambering for SAs' personally-owned pistols always came down to: "
We don't like the pressures we are seeing.")
As an aside, I daresay that had some of the "modern pistol propellants" been available 16 years ago, the .40 S&W would not have launched as a "near max pressure" round, but the only Vihtavouri available in the country then, and in very limited supply at that, was the 3N37 which was quickly grabbed up by USPSA gamesmen who were trying to "make 9mm major!"
Right now I am looking very hard at the H&K USP series of handguns, this may very well be the next big trend in handgun design and an all new manufactured good that people can whine about.
The "USP series" over 11-years old at this juncture.
I happen to admire them as well, despite all the whining about them being "too big."
My blushes, Bobby Lee!
And, Don, you're sniveling again. You have your tighty whiteys in a bunch and aren't even reading anymore, just flailing about like a sailor on leave in San Diego. 'S all right by you, 's all right by me.
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