Harsh moments and our reactions.

[Pure2nd]

First off, if you can't envision a scenario where 6 full grown men are armed and enjoying a holiday together I can only assume you are trolling. Go start your own thread about your superiority.

Any details I leave out please mention as most of you understand my intent and realize that this isn't script, this is real life.

We live in rural Indiana, and my family is a patchwork but we are a family, with commitment and love and we are not the people that get taken from. I have 4 sons no daughters and we are all 2nd ammendment oriented. Yes we own guns, we carry guns, and we all believe the words that the American constitution speaks of.

Now to address the alcohol/drug aspect. There was absolutely no alcohol or drugs involved period. No ambiguity Involved and if you dont think this is true start your own thread.

So you see the basic background, firearms are a part of our history and everyone in the family has more experience around guns than 20 city-dwellers combined.

Lol I'm gonna pause to cool my jets a bit and go sling some rounds. Some of my gun toting redneck family just showed up and their Christmas gift to me was 300 rounds of 20 guage to feed my favorite tool. Brb.

Ok, back to business...

It's xmas eve day, approximately 12:30 PM, and 2 of my sons and I had just finished a 500 rnd session in the range on our property. This day was our primary xmas celebration and we were in the process of completing a kick butt meal for the family present. Keep in mind no children are on the property. .I'm standing in the master bedroom doorway facing the living room couch with another couch to my left. My oldest son is to my left, my youngest son to my further left and back and my AD son directly in front of me seated. Wife behind me, BIL further back and left in the dining room.

Gun is m&p shield 2.0, green laser in an owb friction fit holster on the waist of again what I said earlier is the smartest guy in the room, and it doesn't matter what room you're in.

I initiate the the sequence by commenting about how unsafe it is to have a pistol that requires depression of the trigger for tear down and cleaning.

At this point my son comments on how his pistol is administratively the same as he removes it from his holster, and moves the pistol (muzzle discipline) to his left. At this point discharge occurred with a 147 gr. Jhp passing through his upper left thigh, entry point being almost too dead center middle of thigh and exiting about 2-1/2"from the knee cap.

What I saw and what my oldest son saw was his sweatshirt snagging the trigger as he moved the pistol to his left.

What he says is that he simply dragged his finger across the trigger during the leftward motion. Nobody else in the room had actuall eyes on the moment and point. Without video replay we will never truly know, but that's the mechanics of the incident as I saw it.

At this point my oldest son cleared and secured the pistol as I initiated the 911, and my ad son sat back down(yes, he stood up immediately) and started to remove his Jean's. Clean towels, pressure and some panic were immediate but calm was what prevailed and within 10 minutes EMS showed up.

We live in a fairly remote and isolated area between 2 urban cesspools and our driveway is over 1/2 a mile long. As a measure of expediance I sent one of the boys to the end of the drive to guide the emergency services. And I will add that our community hospital (thank you BMH) and county sheriff's dept. are 2nd to none. The professionalism I witnessed that day gives me great comfort .

FWIW the round passed through his thigh, through a couch cushion and fell to the floor directly in front of the living room table. It did not expand, but was slightly deformed and had no blood or tissue evident.

We were so very blessed that day.

 

[1976B.L.Johns.]

We were so very blessed that day.

Thanks for posting that........

 

[fxvr5]

Question; by "dragged his finger across the trigger" does this mean that he was aware of his finger being inside the trigger guard and in contact with the trigger (where it would be easy to apply rearward pressure on the trigger), or outside the trigger guard and in contact with the trigger (where it would be less easy to apply rearward pressure on the trigger)?

 

[Pure2nd]

Question; by "dragged his finger across the trigger" does this mean that he was aware of his finger being inside the trigger guard and in contact with the trigger (where it would be easy to apply rearward pressure on the trigger), or outside the trigger guard and in contact with the trigger (where it would be less easy to apply rearward pressure on the trigger)?

My view and recollection as well as my oldest sons is that he did not have his finger inside the trigger well. The ad son asserts that he did not have his finger within the trigger well.

His safety was not on, and his trigger got snagged. One of the sheriffs that responded said that one of the jailers he works with did the same thing just 3 days before.

 

[fxvr5]

Okay, thanks. Is the trigger pull on the Shield exactly like the trigger pull on the M&Ps? I ask because I have an M&P but not a shield, and am wondering if the Shield's trigger has a shorter pull or something.

I'm sure one the folks here knows.

 

[Pure2nd]

Thanks for posting that........

I'm a Methodist Christian, and while this isn't firearms related it's what allows me to cry after these hard times, not during.

As some others have alluded, minimal training can go a long way.

Faith and conviction dont hurt either.

 

[Pure2nd]

Okay, thanks. Is the trigger pull on the Shield exactly like the trigger pull on the M&Ps? I ask because I have an M&P but not a shield, and am wondering if the Shield's trigger has a shorter pull or something.

I'm sure one the folks here knows.

I'm not sure about the difference. I dont own a striker and the other striker guns in the house feel about the same(small 45, taurus I believe and a mid frame ruger.)

 

[Scooter22]

Thanks for the details. It certanily cleared things up in my mine. Sounds like just what it is. A accident. They happen to somebody. Unfortunately it was to your son. Best of luck and prayers your way. Have a Happy New Year. You got something to thankful for.

 

[FROGO207]

And a story to discuss next few times you all get together again.

 

[luzyfuerza]

OP, thank you for clarifying what happened.

I agree that there are lessons to be learned. As you suggest, gaining first aid skills is absolutely worthwhile, and having medical supplies is also great. However, I would suggest that preventing negligent discharges and the wounds they can create is much better than either of these.

Personally, I don't remove a loaded handgun from its holster unless 1) I've decided to fire it, or 2) while standing in front of a safe backstop, I remove it using my normal drawstroke, and then I immediately unload and clear it.

This approach to handgun handling might be more likely to prevent injuries from a ND than 1) unholstering a loaded handgun while seated 2) in a room full of friendly people and 3) flagging one's own thigh in the process.

 

[Old Dog]

All I can add is that I have seen some of the smartest, most experienced, firearms-competent people I've known (in 38 + years active duty military and law enforcement) have negligent discharges. We are all human, and subject to human error. For those who wish to lecture the OP about how NDs can be prevented, well, have at it, and maybe someday you will understand that none of us are infallible.

 

[Bandit67]

I agree lecturing the OP is not productive. He stated that the entire family had a long discussion after the event. I'm sure his son feels terrible.
Thank God he is recovering well and that no one else was injured.

 

[scaatylobo]

I'm posting this as a humble man who wishes to share and exchange information and experience on the lifestyle this forum's demographic represents.

My intent by posting this is to generate a serious discussion about our responsibilities as firearms owners as a whole, not regarding ballistics, point of impact, caliber semantics, etc.

On Christmas eve I watched from 8 ft away one of my sons AD into his thigh while he was seated on a couch in a room full of people. As a point of reference, he is without a doubt the smartest man in the room btw, but this still happened. I was standing facing him and everyone in the room had a carry weapon on his person.

At the point of discharge stuff hit the fan like some of you know and many of you don't.

My specific point in this thread is simply to ask you if you are prepared to deal with a firearms related injury/situation? If you aren't you should be. If you aren't this should be your next gun ownership investment.

I was fortunate in that I knew what to do and in what sequence things needed to happen, not from experience but from research, and from this our family was able to make the absolute best of a potentially tragic situation (Thank you Jesus)

I deeply respect and appreciate all the input I get from THR and ask you as my peers to make a commitment to a minimal level of 1st aid training and law enforcement interaction regarding firearms. You owe this to the ones you love.

I would LOVE to know what he was doing to cause that "ad" or "nd" ?.

Including if it was at all possible for that gun to set itself off,unlikely as that seems to me.

Glad you knew the drill to come to his aid,and hope he comes out nothing but the wiser for his moment.

 

[Wisco]

I guess it’s a lesson in what happens when you ignore some of the most basic rules for handling firearms.

It’s also why I don’t participate in show-and-tell with carry guns or stick around for longer than it takes to leave the area when others do.

I haven’t a clue how this story illustrates that the guy who had the ND is the smartest in any room he’s in...or why city-dwellers suck.

 

[huntsman]

I would LOVE to know what he was doing to cause that "ad" or "nd" ?.

Including if it was at all possible for that gun to set itself off,unlikely as that seems to me.

Glad you knew the drill to come to his aid,and hope he comes out nothing but the wiser for his moment.

Took it out of the holster when there was no need.

 

[luzyfuerza]

Smart people get smarter by analyzing negative outcomes (and positive outcomes, too), and then implementing lessons learned from these events. This applies to both one's own and others' experiences.

Those who refuse to do this remain exposed to the consequences of this decision.

OP, I intended my comments to be helpful. Thanks for taking them in that spirit.

 

[DaStray]

Being a retired paramedic, I have the training but don`t routinely carry a first aid kit with me or even have one in my vehicle. I may rethink that though.

As some have stated previously, you can have the latest/greatest first aid kit with you but you won`t need 95% of what`s in there. What`s truly needed is something to address the ABC`s. Airway, breathing and circulation always come first so an oral airway and pocket mask is essential. An occlusive dressing for chest wounds can be bought or made easily. A tourniquet could be a lifesaver too.

If you stay primarily in an urban area or near one, chances are that EMS will be available in a timely manner and with basic knowledge and equipment you may be able to stabilize the patient until EMS arrives. If you`re farther out where EMS would have a long response time, you may wish to add to the basic items but for most of us, just the essentials would be sufficient.

I`m glad that the OP`s son will recover and am one that realizes that we`re all human and thus make mistakes. If we all think about what happened here and keep it in mind, then I think that the OP`s original message will bear fruit.

 

[Telekinesis]

As some have stated previously, you can have the latest/greatest first aid kit with you but you won`t need 95% of what`s in there. What`s truly needed is something to address the ABC`s. Airway, breathing and circulation always come first so an oral airway and pocket mask is essential. An occlusive dressing for chest wounds can be bought or made easily. A tourniquet could be a lifesaver too.

I'm a believer in separating out the Trauma Kit and the First Aid Kit. They can be stored together, but separate the kits). The Trauma Kit should only have items needed for immediate life-saving use like TQs, pressure dressings, NPAs, quick clot, decomp needles and such. No bandaids, ointments, painkillers, ice packs, or any of the other things that you usually find in store bought first aid kits. This should be a relatively small, easy to dig through kit so that it's easy to grab and find the important things.

The normal first aid stuff should be in a second (larger) kit that is organized but doesn't have to be designed for very rapid access. Side note on this stuff - get more than you think you'll need. I thought I had a good first aid kit until I had to do daily bandage changes for a family member who had stitches. You go through everything REALLY quickly - so stock up.

 

[Elkins45]

Stories like this just further reinforce why I choose not to carry a striker fired gun with a short trigger pull. It wasn’t a Glock, but it sounds like another case of Glock leg.

I hope he recovers fully, and maybe reconsiders his choice of carry gun.

 

[bearcreek]

I would LOVE to know what he was doing to cause that "ad" or "nd" ?.

Including if it was at all possible for that gun to set itself off,unlikely as that seems to me.

If you had read the rest of the thread and not just the OP, you'd know the answer to that question.

 

[redneck2]

Back years ago someone posted here once, “every time you handle a firearm you’ve bought another ticket in the lottery of negligent discharge”

And, as previously noted, show and tell with a loaded firearm is an extremely poor decision

 

[exbrit49]

If you dont have medical training --- Dial 911. PLEASE don't try playing Medic unless you have formal training! . As a paramedic I was trained to utilize mast/anti shock pants and many other types of specialized equipment that we had at our disposal.
The last gunshot wound I handled was a shot to the heart, It took everything,we had and an Emergency Room doctor on the other end of a radio to save the patient. It took all the skills we had but it was worth it to get the patient to the ER alive, (20 Miles).and YES she survived!
As a medic, I had to deal with many other injuries (traumas) that were not gunshots, but similar in nature. Virtually all required specialized training. Unless it is a very minor wound, please leave it to those that are trained to deal with it. You can apply a dressing on a superficial wound etc, but that's about it. Chest wounds need different types of care depending on the patient. Sometimes the wound will need to be covered and sealed, Other times, as in a tension pneumothorax. it may be that the wound must be open..
If it needs real immediate care, the 911 operator will usually be able to give verbal advise on what to do until the medics arrive.
please dont play medic if you aren't trained!

 

[Old Dog]

Wow. I get that a lot of responders in this thread are very critical of the OP's family.

Don't be. This stuff happens all the time no matter how smart, how tactical, or how experienced you believe yourself to be in the firearms arena.

Just stop now. Please.

 

[Armored farmer]

The OP scenario sounds very familiar. He could have been describing my family situation nearly word for word.
Accidents happen, and bad things happen really fast.
Good things take a while.
Thanks for posting @Pure2nd.

 

[Elkins45]

Wow. I get that a lot of responders in this thread are very critical of the OP's family.

Don't be. This stuff happens all the time no matter how smart, how tactical, or how experienced you believe yourself to be in the firearms arena.

Just stop now. Please.

I understand your point and I agree. However, there’s just something about his tone in describing the incident that makes me think they have already brushed it off. I’ve harvested some quotes below:


“we are all 2nd ammendment oriented. Yes we own guns, we carry guns, and we all believe the words that the American constitution speaks of.”

“everyone in the family has more experience around guns than 20 city-dwellers combined.”

“Some of my gun toting redneck family just showed up”

“feed my favorite tool. Brb.”

“what I said earlier is the smartest guy in the room, and it doesn't matter what room you're in.”

“between 2 urban cesspools”

Maybe it’s just a difference in writing style, but this doesn’t strike me as the language of someone who has fully processed the experience. I apologize if I am wrong.