Has anyone been stopped by a leo before

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hermannr, you can go hunt bear legally under our current regs with a 4" barreled 25acp if you really think it wise. The current game reg is 24 cal or larger and 4" barrel or longer for handguns.

"Handguns:
Big game, except cougar, may be hunted with
handguns with a minimum barrel length of 4 inches
per manufacturers specification, and fire a minimum
24 caliber centerfire cartridge. Cougar may be
hunted with 22 caliber centerfire handgun. Rimfire
handguns are not legal for big game."
 
Thank you for posting the link. What I posted was not RCW (Revised Code of Washington). What I posted was the hunting regulations contained in the Washington Administrative Code.

On page 70 of "Washington’s 2010 Big Game
Hunting Seasons & Regulations
Effective April 1, 2010 - March 31, 2011"

http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/00766/wdfw00766.pdf

is this:

Modern Firearm Regulations

Rifles:
Big game, except cougar, must be hunted with
a minimum of 24 caliber (6mm) centerfire rifle.
Cougar may be hunted with 22 caliber centerfire
rifle. Rimfire rifles are not legal for big game.

Handguns:
Big game, except cougar, may be hunted with
handguns with a minimum barrel length of 4 inches
per manufacturers specification, and fire a minimum
24 caliber centerfire cartridge. Cougar may be
hunted with 22 caliber centerfire handgun. Rimfire
handguns are not legal for big game.

Which seems to be consistent with the Washington Administrative Code I posted. Not sure when the rules changed, as I am actually not a hunter.

FC said:
hermannr, you can go hunt bear legally under our current regs with a 4" barreled 25acp if you really think it wise. The current game reg is 24 cal or larger and 4" barrel or longer for handguns.

I think what you would end up hunting would be pissed-off bear!
 
Klutchless, you know that it is a good thing to go on record about the incident. I would go this route: Go to your local SHERIFF'S dept, tell them that you want to file a complaint of misconduct against the police chief that gave you the hassle. Explain that you believe he operated outside of the scope of his powers, abused the authority of his office, and that you'd like to get a report on file in the event that the sheriff's office, prosecutors office, or any other potential invetigating authority come to have OTHER complaints about the police chief in question. This will get a LOT of people to sit up quickly and take notice. It is generally deemed BAD JUJU to hassle a person who brings a complaint against a police officer, as then it blows up into a bigger matter, and could invite the state or the feds into a "conspiracy", if there is colusion by other agencies to stifle an investigation, or scare and harass a reporting person such as yourself. Let's not forget, these are PUBLIC SERVANTS, and even chiefs of police answer to someone (this one might answer to a mayor, town council, etc, but the sheriff's office thing is a safe place to start). On the other hand, if the offending officer is given a chance to think about it, and offers a formal apology, I would accept it. No charges wee brought, or unreasonable detention, but he needs to understand that a law abiding, CCW permit carrying, BYSTANDER does not deserve to be hassled.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by klutchless
In response to Navt Lt I was informed I can be charged for creating a public panic for my oc
You were lied to.

It is true. They can arrest you for whatever they want. It may not stand up in court but the threat of "you can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride" comes into play. Breach of the peace, or disorderly conduct can be, and are, used in the same way.
 
Thank you FC, and I appoligize to NavyLt...it appears the reg was changed in 2009?

I cannot say for sure, but from the revisions of the WAC it looks like 2009 (which, unfortunately is the last paper regs I still have, and they agree with 2010-2011).

Why they changed it? T/C Contendors? don't know. As I have always complied with the old reg, I have never had a problem there.

It may be that the F&W arrested someone for hunting with a 22 cal handgun (.223) that met the old FtLb energy requirement, but the F&W officer did not think it was a legal for hunting, and it went to court.

I do know that is why the crossbow part of the regs changed. Someone was arrested, and F&W was challanged in court. (and lost) (I know the incident involved with the crossbow, it happened 1/2 from where we used to live in Skagic county.)
 
Although we can't OC here in Fl...

Open Carry is lawful while engaged in, or going directly to and from, lawful Target Shooting, Hunting, Fishing, and Camping expeditions. FL Statutes 790.25(3)(h), (j), and (k)
 
I didn't file a complaint I figured maybe he was having a bad day or somthing.I have not had a issue with him since and he has seen me around town with my gun.I used to cc when I went to town if I could but any more I oc just to ensure we dont lose that right due to some LEO with with a grudge against it .I do not respond well to intemidation from anyone even the chief of police.
 
I appoligize to NavyLt...it appears the reg was changed in 2009?

No need to apologize at all. I just like looking things up, posting what I find and where I find it for the education of all involved, including myself!

I still haven't figured out what all the dates, symbols and abbreviations at the bottom of statutes/regulations mean....
 
Some of Ohio law enforcement is poorly trained in the laws regarding open carry, inducing panic, etc. There is currently a project underway to send a packet to every police department in the state with proper citations.

Here are the Ohio codes regarding inducing panic and disorderly conduct. Obviously someone quietly minding his business while carrying a weapon is not guilty of either charge:

§ 2917.31. Inducing panic


(A) No person shall cause the evacuation of any public place, or otherwise cause serious public inconvenience or alarm, by doing any of the following:

(1) Initiating or circulating a report or warning of an alleged or impending fire, explosion, crime, or other catastrophe, knowing that such report or warning is false;

(2) Threatening to commit any offense of violence;

(3) Committing any offense, with reckless disregard of the likelihood that its commission will cause serious public inconvenience or alarm.

(B) Division (A)(1) of this section does not apply to any person conducting an authorized fire or emergency drill.




§ 2917.11. Disorderly conduct


(A) No person shall recklessly cause inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm to another by doing any of the following:

(1) Engaging in fighting, in threatening harm to persons or property, or in violent or turbulent behavior;

(2) Making unreasonable noise or an offensively coarse utterance, gesture, or display or communicating unwarranted and grossly abusive language to any person;

(3) Insulting, taunting, or challenging another, under circumstances in which that conduct is likely to provoke a violent response;

(4) Hindering or preventing the movement of persons on a public street, road, highway, or right-of-way, or to, from, within, or upon public or private property, so as to interfere with the rights of others, and by any act that serves no lawful and reasonable purpose of the offender;

(5) Creating a condition that is physically offensive to persons or that presents a risk of physical harm to persons or property, by any act that serves no lawful and reasonable purpose of the offender.

(B) No person, while voluntarily intoxicated, shall do either of the following:

(1) In a public place or in the presence of two or more persons, engage in conduct likely to be offensive or to cause inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm to persons of ordinary sensibilities, which conduct the offender, if the offender were not intoxicated, should know is likely to have that effect on others;

(2) Engage in conduct or create a condition that presents a risk of physical harm to the offender or another, or to the property of another.

(C) Violation of any statute or ordinance of which an element is operating a motor vehicle, locomotive, watercraft, aircraft, or other vehicle while under the influence of alcohol or any drug of abuse, is not a violation of division (B) of this section.

(D) If a person appears to an ordinary observer to be intoxicated, it is probable cause to believe that person is voluntarily intoxicated for purposes of division (B) of this section.

(E)(1) Whoever violates this section is guilty of disorderly conduct.
 
As in every state, if the police start abusing the interpretation of the law to effect "attitude" arrests, what quite often happens is that states' attorneys general come out with a revision, or list, to law enforcement agencies to "clarify" the matters. When complaints about complexities of laws (in Ohio, the CCW quickly got revamped after adoption due to poor wording and fuzzy and nonsensical concepts of HOW people should carry and display, etc....cudos to the AG and legislature on THAT one!) Bottom line, if cops too often abuse the way a law is enforced, sometimes they get reigned in. A walk-in talk WITH the chief about what you found offensive by the chief might result in him just acknowledging that he was having a bad day, and put you both on first name basis, with him respecting you opinion...........but then, maybe not.............
 
I think he saw a dirty man in dirty clothes with a beat up truck and a perfectly clean S&W and figured somthin aint right.hehe
 
NavyLt. I do know what those funny numbers are. They refernce the WAC revisions, dates of the revisions, and applicable RCW authorizing/causing the changes.

I am really very surprised at the muzzle energy change though. That must have been a real fight as that was a F&W biggy 20+ years ago. I do see that they still have the 45 cal handgun requirement for BP/
 
Dang, hermannr beat me to it.

It really depends on how aware people are when it comes to whether you'll be the subject of AMWAG call to the local police or not.

For example, I OC'd quite regularly when I didn't have my CHP (wasn't old enough yet) in some of the most liberal gun hating places in CO (Boulder to be more exact).
I went to the stores, the movies, ate dinner, hiked on some pretty popular trails, and wandered all sorts of places. Heck, I went down Pearl St Mall midsummer (tourist season) that was just buzzing with more people than mosquitos in Florida.
But, people there wouldn't have noticed that I carried unless I either did OC with a long gun or got a podium and a loudspeaker.

Other places, they notice but I haven't really had too terrible interactions. More along the lines of curiosity.
 
I avoid open carry in stores because I know the cops will be called.

What they can't see does not make them paranoid.
And what's so silly about it is that thugs don't open carry! When I see someone open carrying, the last thing I think is that they're up to no good. Thugs only carry concealed.
 
Thugs only carry concealed.

"He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to fear..." (Pancho & Lefty, Willy Nelson & Merle Haggard)

While I agree with your logic, too many people feel otherwise.
 
For example, I OC'd quite regularly when I didn't have my CHP (wasn't old enough yet) in some of the most liberal gun hating places in CO (Boulder to be more exact).
I went to the stores, the movies, ate dinner, hiked on some pretty popular trails, and wandered all sorts of places. Heck, I went down Pearl St Mall midsummer (tourist season) that was just buzzing with more people than mosquitos in Florida.
But, people there wouldn't have noticed that I carried unless I either did OC with a long gun or got a podium and a loudspeaker.

Other places, they notice but I haven't really had too terrible interactions. More along the lines of curiosity.

I had a similar experience in Hanover, New Hampshire. Dartmouth, college professors etc. I was there, and wanted a book. I went into the crowded Dartmouth book store, got my book. Got a cup of coffee and read my book, ocing the whole time. As far as I could tell, no one even noticed, and if they did, they didn't care because no one reacted at all to it. That was fine with me :)
 
Whenever I OC, I wonder if this will be the day that I'm stopped by an LEO and hassled. So far, so good.
 
I don't OC because it's not worth the hassle, even if it is fairly acceptable in Wyoming. I carry a firearm for personal defense. If I can carry a weapon without an assailant knowing about it, the upper hand tilts in my favor.

While police are sometimes confrontational and unpleasant in OC situations, too often the person doing OC exacerbates the situation by being equally or more unpleasant.

That said, I do believe in the right to OC and think it should be vigorously defended.

As for the rude behavior you received, I would certainly report it. There is no call for that.
 
As an LEO, I am all for legal carry of firearms by responsible citizens. I cannot speak for all officers, but what do you think runs through my mind when I receive a call about a person with a gun? Granted, a person going about everyday business in a public place is a drastic difference from an active shooter, but we try the best we can. Typically, the only info we would get from dispatch is "We have a report of a man/woman with at gun at....."
 
what do you think runs through my mind when I receive a call about a person with a gun?

i'd hope it was something along the lines of " I'm going to deal with someone in possession of something that could potentially kill me or others. I should use a reasonable amount of caution.....like I would when approaching people in possession of other "potentially dangerous" items"..... like cars for example. Your average call of "man with a gun" that doesn't involve an active shooter is really no mopre dangerous than approaching any traffic stop, which has the potential for far more variables. You should always uise caution, but going into "hyper-vigilance" mode at the mention of a gun only serves to raise the tension levels for all parties involved, IMO. As an officer, due diligence and caution are cornerstones of your job, and of course most people expect you to approach it carefully. However, officer attitude can escalate an otherwise calm situaiton when responding with more force and/or authority than is called for under the circumstances
 
I got stopped last night on my way home from practice. (I'd forgotten it was St. Patrick's Day and hadn't counted on all three of my township's cars being staged at the turn-off to my neck of the woods.)

Young cop walks up and after telling me my headlight is out (doh!) asks for license & reg.

I tell him I'm going to reach for my wallet, in my left front pocket.

"What, are you armed?"
"W..."
"'Cause that's ok if you are I don't care it's just nobody ever bothers to tell me where' they're going to put their hands so I figured you probably were and that's cool, no problem I just have to do the license thing 'cause I already called the plate in but you aren't getting a ticket just a warning and you don't even have to really follow the directions on the sheet it's just get the headlight fixed sometime i'll be right back ... hey... wait, are you carring anything COOL?
"Uh, Smith and Wesson. 629. ..."
"Oh COOL! Hey do you know if there are any cool gun shops around? I moved out here from Philly a while back and I love it but where do you go for gun stuff? ...."

...And on, and on, with a very chatty and pleasant young cop who never did ask to see my LCTF and who told me that they were all out looking for drunks, and hadn't found one yet. :)


...15 minutes later...

"Well take care, you have my card call me if you ever need anything, see you at the next tractor show or the fireman's carival maybe, g'night!

(To myself:)"Uh, strange, he forgot to even write me the warning...!" :)
 
"Well take care, you have my card call me if you ever need anything, see you at the next tractor show or the fireman's carival maybe, g'night!

(To myself"Uh, strange, he forgot to even write me the warning...!"
Why don't I ever meet these friendly cops? I have nothing but respect for people who risk their lives as LEOs, but all the ones that I meet are either surly or indifferent. :(
 
As an LEO, I am all for legal carry of firearms by responsible citizens. I cannot speak for all officers, but what do you think runs through my mind when I receive a call about a person with a gun?

I'd be way more concerned about people driving cars than people carrying guns, as an occupational hazard.


How ridiculous would it sound if you received a call about a person with a car?
 
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