How do you tell a LEO that you are armed at a traffic stop

[Double_J]

I always liked the response a friend of mine gave. "hey officer, is my barrel dirty. this is said as you point it in his face. (this is a joke, the friend was a "ride along" partner for the local pd and knew most of the cops on the street.)

I usually keep quiet and don't say a word unless I need to. This is because I have had several encounters with officers who get an major attitude and extend the stop with un-necessary questions. For those occasions where I must declare I usually do it as I am handing over my D.L. and state I have a carry permit and ask how to proceed.

 

[Sam1911]

1) Know the law in the jurisdiction where you are, and FOLLOW IT.
2) If you are not required to disclose, do not do so. The gun has nothing to do with the reason you were stopped, it isn't pertinent to the traffic offense, and introducing it into the situation is simply an invitation for things to get weird.
3) If you are in a jurisdiction where you must disclose, do so at the first opportunity, politely, calmly, and clearly. You are not a guilty criminal, so don't act like one. When the officer approaches, have your window whatever portion of open you prefer and your hands at the 12:00 position on the wheel where s/he will see them as they approach. "'Evening officer, I need to let you know that I am a concealed firearms license holder and am currently armed. How would you like to proceed?"
4) If you did not disclose, but for some reason the officer asks you to exit the vehicle, after you've exited the vehicle (and locked and closed the door if you follow that procedure), you should probably notify before things go any further as there's a good chance you'll be frisked shortly and it is generally better to notify than have the officer find it by surprise.

5) If at any point things get "weird" -- COMPLY with all orders, remain calm and polite -- and take careful notice of what is done and said, and get names of each officer involved. If you feel you have been mistreated, follow up with an official complaint, or involve a lawyer if the offense was serious.

 

[NavyLCDR]

As an L/E I always appreciated it when a CWP holder advised me that they were armed. On the two occasions this happened I asked the person to slowly and carefully place their weapon on the right front floor board and leave it there until we finished our business. I also tended to be very lenient with folks who were open and honest with me.

This, to me, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If you feel that you are safer with the gun out of reach of the subject, then why on God's earth would the first thing you ask the subject to do is handle their gun?!? You don't feel safe with the gun in the holster, so you tell the subject to take the gun in hand?!? Does that pass any kind of common sense check whatsoever?

I can be open and honest with the officer during a traffic and never tell them about my gun. By open and honest, are you suggest waiving their fourth and fifth amendment rights? For example, "Do you know why I pulled you over today?" That is a question which is really askng for the subject to confess to a violation they think they might have committed.

I will be polite and socialable...but I won't waive my fourth or fifth amendment rights. And I certainly won't invite you to tell me to handle my gun with no need by telling you about my gun when I am not required to by law.

 

[heavydluxe]

Hardly an expert, but here's my moderately informed opinion (take with appropriate salt)...

At a minimum:
1) If required by law to notify, do so immediately, calmly, and clearly as has been stated in other posts.

2) Otherwise, calmly engage with the officer, hands visible with no sudden movements. If any of the requests the officer makes of you might bring your firearm into view, disclose immediately, calmly, and clearly and await further instructions.

3) If the officer is asking you to exit the vehicle, disclose immediately, calmly, and clearly and await further instructions.

I understand the concerns people have raised above re: disclosing information to an officer to which they are not properly entitled. If I'm being stopped for speeding, there ought to be no reason for the office to need to know about a firearm in my possession. I think there is a fair skepticism towards the motives and conduct of police officers in many situations, to boot.

That said, I would personally take the course outlined above. I would disclose to the officer immediately, no matter the context. "Officer, I am carrying a concealed firearm [location] in accordance with my 2nd Amendment rights. How would you like to proceed?"

While there are 'bad cops' (and, sadly, seemingly more of them all the time), I think most officers are just trying to do their job to the best of their ability and get home alive. (And, sadly, there are seemingly more crazies all the time, too.)

By politely disclosing as soon as is possible, I think I do the best service to both of us. YMMV.

 

[BSA1]

Times sure have changed since I worked the street.

I ALWAYS assumed that the occupants in the vehicle were armed and conducted the stop accordingly using the tactics I was taught for officer safety. There was no drama like is so commonly described on this forum.

 

[Deanimator]

So, if a police car lights up behind me, and I know I'm speeding, I should make a run for it?

No, OBEY THE LAW.

The way to avoid speeding tickets isn't to render made up "courtesies" to cops.

It's to OBEY THE SPEED LIMIT.

During a traffic stop, OBEY THE LAW, nothing more, nothing less.

In Ohio, I'm required by law to notify during a police encounter, IF ARMED. That's not good enough for cops. They want you to notify if NOT armed. My answer in a word, "NO".

 

[Sam1911]

I ALWAYS assumed that the occupants in the vehicle were armed and conducted the stop accordingly using the tactics I was taught for officer safety. There was no drama like is so commonly described on this forum.

And that's as it should be. Assume everyone is armed. Assume the folks who mean you harm won't be the ones to admit they're armed and politely surrender the weapon. Assume that the good folks don't need to be disarmed and the bad folks won't declare and disarm peaceably. Therefore, asking and disarming is at best a waste of time and at worst a divisive and inappropriate power play.

 

[Deanimator]

While there are 'bad cops' (and, sadly, seemingly more of them all the time), I think most officers are just trying to do their job to the best of their ability and get home alive. (And, sadly, there are seemingly more crazies all the time, too.)

My notifying a cop that I'm carrying (or worse that I'm NOT) won't extend that cop's life one SECOND. On the contrary, if I DO intend to kill him, my notifying may lull him into a false sense of security.

Any cop who doesn't suspect that ANYBODY could be armed and act accordingly, is too stupid for the job.

 

[wrs840]

In NC duty to notify is law. At a traffic stop I just silently hand my CHP with my NCDL. They usually ask: "are you armed?" I answer yes. Sometimes they will ask "where's your weapon?" I answer truthfully but briefly, such as "IWB at 4:00".

I do deal with Local LEO a few times a year in an official capacity on various things, and I always punctuate the howdy-do's with "duty-to-notify, I am permitted and armed." They usually blow it off with some pithy comment like "as long as you don't shoot me we're cool."

 

[medalguy]

Do as you think best. Here's my experience.

I drive fast. OK, I said it. Agree with my wife. Anyway, I've been stopped a few times when carrying, and my procedure is to stop, put the car in park, turn off the engine, place my hands on the steering wheel, and wait for the nice officer. When he asks for my DL, I place my CHL on top of the DL and hand both to him. Generally (at least in Texas) they ask if I am armed, and ask where the gun is. They usually say to just leave it there and proceed to conduct their business. I do have to say I have received one ticket in 4 stops, so make from that what you will. The ticket was from a very small-town cop FWIW. The other stops were by state police who have all been extremely professional and courteous. Hats to Texas DPS.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i open carried in fairfax in the late 70's early 80's/ drove too fast a lot. i used to leave pistol on seat next to me. i would pull over toss keys on dash stick both hands out my window and tell em as they walked up that there was a pistol on seat next to me and let them take it from there. never had trouble.

 

[RJTravel]

Do as you think best. Here's my experience.

I drive fast. OK, I said it. Agree with my wife. Anyway, I've been stopped a few times when carrying, and my procedure is to stop, put the car in park, turn off the engine, place my hands on the steering wheel, and wait for the nice officer. When he asks for my DL, I place my CHL on top of the DL and hand both to him. Generally (at least in Texas) they ask if I am armed, and ask where the gun is. They usually say to just leave it there and proceed to conduct their business. I do have to say I have received one ticket in 4 stops, so make from that what you will. The ticket was from a very small-town cop FWIW. The other stops were by state police who have all been extremely professional and courteous. Hats to Texas DPS.

Agree with medal. I tend to forget my speed, and freely admit it if at fault and stopped, however in more than 34 years have not received a speed cite. I'm working on allowing more time. The CHP actually makes me more careful.

 

[Ehtereon11B]

As a LEO here is my advice. While you don't HAVE to inform in most states it is really a moot point. When the officer runs your license plate, he will already know you have a license to carry before you reach for your wallet. It depends vastly on the officer in how he will handle the situation. Be very calm and cooperative, but know your rights. I hate to say it but there are lots of crooked police officers who will try to strong arm you into something even when you follow the law. Do not outright and say the word "gun, weapon, or firearm" you might scare some rookie on the beat to acting irrationally. Most officers will ask you if you are armed and where is it if you are. I have heard of some officers asking to put the CCW on the dashboard where they can see it but the vast majority will just tell you not to reach for your firearm during your roadside business.

 

[RJTravel]

I think it is a good idea to disclose, even if it's not required. If I'm stopped, I'll produce my DL, registration, retired Navy ID, and CHP. If I'm carrying, I'll tell the officer what it is and where it is. "I'm carrying a [firearm] in/on my [location]." If I'm not, I'll say, "I'm not carrying." The officer will know I have a CHP anyway in my state, and I see no drawback to informing.

But the words you use matter. I avoid saying, "I am exercising my right to carry." That sounds as if the speaker feels the need to remind the officer that he has the right to carry, which you can rest assured he or she does know. It's borderline arrogant.

IMO you violate a rudimentary and cardinal rule when you tell the LEO you "have a 'firearm' (gun, little friend, equalizer, heater, etc)". For me it is a a grave error to needlessly put them on red alert with the word 'gun'. It sounds like a smart-alec remark. I simply say 'exercising my CHP privilege (or 'right', or similar)'. Much more respectful. Wrks fer mee - I've been stopped so many times I've gotten to know many LEO, and they now wave and give me a pass.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

When he asks for my drivers license...I hand him my license and my carry permit...with the permit ON TOP...all my other paperwork is in a compartment in the drivers door, right there where he can see it.


I'm a truck driver, I keep both the license and the permit where I can have them in hand before the LEO gets to the drivers door...that way I'm not digging around for stuff while he's wondering if I'm gonna pull out a weapon. It gets everything out in the open fast and without words...I've probably dealt with cops and DOT more than most...I drive about 140,000 miles per year, more miles in a month than the average person drives in a year...between license checks on holidays and DOT inspections I average about 10 stops per year.

Never had a problem with it done that way...but I've never been stopped in NY, CA, or Cook county either....if that ever happens, I'm just gonna hope for the best.

The few places with strict laws make it difficult for a person who has no control over where he has to go...

 

[hermannr]

If State law requires you to inform...inform...Otherwise...

My state does not require you to inform, and as my being armed, or not, has absolutely nothing to do with a traffic stop...it is as relevant as saying Hej Officer Friendly, how do you like my hat?..I do not mention it.

In our state, if you have a CPL, it will come up on the officers screen when he runs your DL. In 42+ years of carry I have NEVER been asked if I was armed when stopped for a traffic violation. It is just NOT relevant.

Many years ago my sister was dating a WSP officer. We went shooting together, and did a lot of things together until he was moved out of the area. One day I asked him what he thought you should do at a traffic stop.

His response was: Have your DL, registration and insurance card handy so you don't have to dig for them. roll down your window and have your information in your hand, and both hands on the steering wheel. If you do that, the office will feel comfortable with you.

What is scary for an officer is to see you digging for your information...he has no idea where your hands are, or what is in them.

 

[beatledog7]

RJTravel, re: Post #39:

I don't use the word "gun" or any of the words you mentioned. In my post used an [insert], meaning the exact word is situation dependent, and I would be specific. I might say, "J-Frame" and "IWB 8 o'clock" or "1911" and "console," but never "gun" and "person." I'll say again, in case you missed it, that I think saying something about RKBA sounds arrogant, and I noted why. That's just me, so you do what works for you.

Deanimator, re: Post #31:

Of course I don't make a run for it. I'm also very careful about attracting any sort of LEO attention while driving, as I hold a CDL-A and don't wish to place it at risk.

 

[NavyLCDR]

As a LEO here is my advice. While you don't HAVE to inform in most states it is really a moot point. When the officer runs your license plate, he will already know you have a license to carry before you reach for your wallet.

That's amazing! Do the license plates automatically sense who is driving the car? In my state of Washington the license plates only indicate who the registered owner of the vehicle is. Then the law enforcement officer can take the registered owner's name and address and find out if the registered owner has a Washington Concealed Pistol License or not. The license plates in Washington state in no way indicate who is driving the vehicle.

 

[orionengnr]

I live in a "must inform" state. I have a wallet with a removable two-window piece. License in one, CHL in the other.

I have only had occasion to present this three times...once when I was involved in an accident (not my fault, I was rear-ended while on my motorcycle, and I was on a back board by the time the police arrived). I havded him the wallet insert, told him where the pistol was, and when I was released from the hospital I went to the Police station and picked up my pistol (unloaded), the empty mag and the loose rounds..

Once when pulled over for speeding (guilty as Hell, but he let me slide).
He acknowledged the CHL, never asked "where it was" or anything.

Once when my bike quit and backed up traffic...the officer called a tow truck, invited me to sit in the front seat of his car while we awaited the tow truck...I let him know at the beginning of our conversation that I was licensed and exercizing my 2A right, he told me that was fine as long as it remained right where it was. We continued to have a pleasant conversation on a number of subjects in the next 30 minutes.

Tow truck arrived, we went our separate ways, and I made sure to send a detailed letter hitting the high spots of our interaction to his Department Chief praising his professionalism.

A guy who does a great job like he did deserves a positive letter in his file.

That covers the last ten years. Perhaps, as I grow older, my interactions with LE will become less frequent. Here's hoping.

 

[spaniel]

Based on my experience in a must-inform state, I would never inform in a need-not-inform state unless necessary.

The short version, after being disarmed and everything short of a cavity search performed in a situation where I HAD CALLED POLICE AS THE VICTIM OF A CRIME, when it came time to return my weapon the officer refused to return both my weapon and ammo as "I might reload and shoot him before he could leave". I had to negotiate to get my ammunition back, and have him lock it in my trunk so he would have time to drive away before I could reload.

The whole incident was very stressful, and needlessly so. Never again unless the law requires.

 

[RJTravel]

beatledog,
Do whatever you wish - but if you were to respond with what appears to be a smart-alec answer in my city you would be inviting real trouble. I have close family LEO locally - highly trained and have my respect - but they would not put up with that kind of combative retort.

 

[Tony_the_tiger]

Beatledog, as Deanimator noted, my comment not to get pulled over at all costs should be read as "do not violate traffic mandates that will attract an officer's attention".

Of course you should follow the law and any local ordinances that dictate traffic in your area and that dictate ccw and duty to inform in your area. The high road mandates that you do so, especially when carrying a weapon.

If you are pulled over, however, and the law does not mandate that you disclose, it is foolish to disclose.

An officer is sworn to protect the law, thats it. So follow the law. Anything an officer requires of you that is beyond the law should be met with nonviolent civil disobedience, or compliance followed with political followup. Treat officers with respect, and keep them accountable to their duties, which do not include harassing civilian ccw permit holders.

Everything Sam1911 says I tend to agree with in this thread.

 

[beatledog7]

Tony: I should have added the rolling eyes thing to my original response:I knew you didn't mean we should flee. As for informing, do whatever works for you. I still see no reason not to disclose, especially given that he's probably going to ask anyway. Then again, I have been stopped exactly zero times since I got my CHP.

RJ: We simply disagree on what sounds smart-alec. Please explain what is combative about what I posted.

 

[Ehtereon11B]

That's amazing! Do the license plates automatically sense who is driving the car? In my state of Washington the license plates only indicate who the registered owner of the vehicle is. Then the law enforcement officer can take the registered owner's name and address and find out if the registered owner has a Washington Concealed Pistol License or not. The license plates in Washington state in no way indicate who is driving the vehicle.

Was typing faster than my brain was thinking. Yes the license plate only pings back the registered owner of the vehicle.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Was typing faster than my brain was thinking. Yes the license plate only pings back the registered owner of the vehicle.

Your previous statement was one that is very commonly made: "The officer is going to know about your permit before he comes to the window." That is simply an impossibility, unless the officer recognizes you personally or is a psychic.

--------break--------

We clearly have two schools of thought. Do tell and don't tell. I doubt if either side is going to change their mind.