How many of you would sell a handgun to an 18 year old?

[USMCDK]

EDIT: Guns don't impair judgement like booze does.

To a degree you are right. You might not stumble and stammer with a firearms in your possession, but however there are some out there that once they have said firearm, they go into this "I am invisinible/I got a gun and that means I win" mode. Which is a sense of impairment to judgement. IMHO

Sorry but that's the way I see it and have seen it happen throughout history.

 

[VonFireball]

Florida law doesn't require you to ask for ID's nor does it mandate a background check for private sales.

Yeah, I'd want to at least know the name of the guy so if the police ever did come knocking, but I'm not gonna go out of my way to make life more difficult for the young guys than it already is.

I guess, what I'm saying is show me the ID, pays me the money, and the gun is yours.

Private sale is a private sale.

Geez.

 

[NG VI]

better act fast if you want a new one since Ruger has now discontinued the P89

Balls. That's too bad, the gun really wasn't bad, but I was suffering from a case of idiocy and pride of ownership in my new-to-me (and like new) CZ-97B and just wasn't getting out to shoot ever, so an opportunity to make a $100 over the purchase price showed itself and I bit. Wish I still had it now, because it would be neat to have.

 

[XDShooter07]

Personally I sell all my guns back to gun shops because it releases me from liability and I know that a background check will be done on the person buying the gun. It's strange to me that it's legal for an 18 y.o. to buy a handgun through a private sale but not through a public one??? All that lost economy......

 

[Okiecruffler]

The current crop in High School (and just out) DEMAND "their rights" and respect, even when they have done nothing to earn it

I see too many posters in this thread repeating basically the same thing. This is America, we believe that those rights are God-given rights don't we? No one has to "earn" his rights. Respect maybe, but not rights, not yet. Refusing to sell to someone because 18 y/o's tend to be unresponsible would be like not selling to blacks because they have a higher rate of crime. It's your gun, your call, but let's call it what it is.

And FWIW, I bought my first pistol at 16. It was an RG 22 and I wish that guy would have refused to sell to me.

 

[Treo]

QUOTE: "Personally I sell all my guns back to gun shops because it releases me from liabilitY"

What liability? I bought every gun I own private sale, even if I went out and commited a crime W/ one of my guns and left it at the scene there's no record anywhere that I ever owned that gun. If I'm liable for selling the gun to the 18 Y/O how is that different from the Lawsuit NYC brought against gun shops that sold guns that ended up in NYC?

 

[brigadier]

When selling a handgun, I only take 3 things in to consideration. 1, is it legal, 2 is the person allowed (if under someone's custody) to have one and 3, does this person give me any reason the think they will do something bad with it.
If a 10 year old offers to buy a gun I have for sale, behaves like he's been gun trained and responsible, can legally have the gun (An automatic: no in this country) and his/her mother and father are present, responsible people and happy with the transaction, then it's a done deal.

BTW. You can legally make your own gun, and only the frame is legally the gun. http://www.smooth-on.com makes a high-impact plastic that is very watery when in liquid form, molds very well in to the silicones that they make for mold making, doesn't require a release agent (if molded in the silicones) pressure box or hot temperature and it is like polymer when dry. If you can borrow someone's Glock, USP, P-99, PX4 etc, then you can probably make your own mold and frame.

 

[Treo]

BRIGADIER,
In that situation you're really selling to the parents though right?

 

[andrewdl007]

Since its legal here in VA I would treat an 18 year old like any other person if I was goin to sell a gun of any kind.

 

[XDShooter07]

I bought every gun I own private sale, even if I went out and commited a crime W/ one of my guns and left it at the scene there's no record anywhere that I ever owned that gun

I'm happy for you. And you illustrate my point; if I had sold you that gun through private sale then there's record of me having that gun but not you....what are the chances a family of someone that gets hurt by a guy that shouldn't have had a gun sues me? I don't really know but I'm not taking my chances.

I know that a background check will be done on the person buying the gun.

I prefer that this happen and that the gun registry for that state or the gun shop that sold it have record of a new owner.

This is basically no different than what MachIVshooter said he does (see below), he just keeps his own records while I let gun shops and gun registry do it along with a receipt of sale from the gun shop when I sell to them.

If the individual seems trustworthy and is willing to provide the information I keep in my records on all private sales (Full name, address, phone, and a photocopy of valid DL, military ID or CCW showing in-state residency), I will sell to anyone who can lawfully possess.

It's just the way I like to deal with selling a firearm from my possession. If you wish to do things differently or buy all of your firearms through private sales then go for it I'm not criticizing you; I just do it the way I do it.

If I'm liable for selling the gun to the 18 Y/O how is that different from the Lawsuit NYC brought against gun shops that sold guns that ended up in NYC?

I don't mean just 18 y.o.; the rest of this post probably clarifies that. I don't know what lawsuit you're referring to?

 

[Treo]

Here's the headline the thread's in Legal
http://www.1010wins.com/Gun-Industry...by-NYC/2100159

Gun Industry Wins Lawsuit



NEW YORK (AP) -- A federal appeals court Wednesday tossed out New York City's lawsuit claiming the gun industry markets weapons with the knowledge that they could be diverted into illegal markets.

It sounds to me like the same liability issue you're talking about. To me it's like holding Ford liable for drunk drivers.

QUOTE:"prefer that this happen and that the gun registry for that state or the gun shop that sold it have record of a new owner."

What is this "state gun registry" ?
I'm not familiar W/ any state that has a gun registry & Colorado law specifically forbids it . State
Law also specifically forbids the police from tracking gun sales or compiling a gun owner database.

QUOTE: "his is basically no different than what MachIVshooter said he does"

And W/ all due respect I wouldn't buy from him either. Why should I hand a perfect stranger every thing he needs to steal my identity?

With all the restrictions you both want to put on gunsales you almost sound as bad as the antis to me.

If a person is otherwise legally able to own a firearm his/her right to purchase one shouldn't be infringed.

When I say that I don't mean that you shouldn't be able to dispose of your property as you see fit, I mean that I should be able to walk in to Walmart and walk out 15 minutes later W/ an M-16 ( NO that isn't a typo)

 

[XDShooter07]

That lawsuit's a very similar situation.

What is this "state gun registry" ?
I'm not familiar W/ any state that has a gun registry & Colorado law specifically forbids it . State
Law also specifically forbids the police from tracking gun sales or compiling a gun owner database.

I live in Ohio and we don't have a registry; but I wasn't sure if any other states did that's why I phrased it that way. What typically happens at the gun shop I deal with is that I buy the gun they write down all my info on the receipt including the gun's serial number and they keep it for their records. I feel that's perfectly fine and feel it's useful in tracking down owners of guns used illegally.

And W/ all due respect I wouldn't buy from him either. Why should I hand a perfect stranger every thing he needs to steal my identity?

That's your choice, you just won't own any of his guns.

With all the restrictions you both want to put on gunsales you almost sound as bad as the antis to me.

If a person is otherwise legally able to own a firearm his/her right to purchase one shouldn't be infringed.

When I say that I don't mean that you shouldn't be able to dispose of your property as you see fit, I mean that I should be able to walk in to Walmart and walk out 15 minutes later W/ an M-16 ( NO that isn't a typo)

You're reading way into what I'm typing; read what I type, take it for a flat fact, there's no inferences to be made. I haven't said anything about restrictions other than a background check which is already done and do I feel it should be done.....yes. Just because someone answers no to being a felon on the form doesn't mean they aren't. The second sentence there, I agree with but you don't think it should be verified? And as far as waiting periods are concerned, I said nothing about them, we don't have one, and a background check over the phone takes 2 minutes. And if you mean M-16 as in full auto, you'll have to take that up with the ATF, this thread is not going there.

I'm not responding to you anymore because you're starting to get militant by relating me to an anti, we're going off topic anyways.

 

[brigadier]

BRIGADIER,
In that situation you're really selling to the parents though right?

More or less.

 

[19-3Ben]

an 18 year old with a clean record and a respectful attitude

This is the most important thing for me. Not the age. Once you are legally old enough to buy, I don't care how old you are so long as you have a clean record, and look clean/respectful/responsible. Those are the main and important things.
I would much rather sell to a clean and responsible 18 year old, than sell to a 30 year old who walks around looking like a "homie."

Neither age, nor race are important to me. It's about how you present yourself, hold yourself, and what your record has to say.

 

[Soybomb]

You can sell a handgun privately without a background check?? How am I supposed to know that the kid has a "clean record"?? I just don't think that it's a very good idea IMHO. I mean, this applies not only to 18 year-olds, but for anyone to be able to purchase a handgun privately without any background check...I'm not so sure about this.

Why would you assume that anyone who is a criminal cares to acquire a gun legally? Its cheaper to steal than buy. Why would you assume that someone who plans to use a gun against others would have a hard time getting a gun? If you're truly worried you can have a dealer do the transfer but your fears are just baseless emotional ones without sound justification.

It's strange to me that it's legal for an 18 y.o. to buy a handgun through a private sale but not through a public one??? All that lost economy......

Seldom do gun laws reflect sound logic.

I would sell to anyone that I could legally sell to provided nothing seemed fishy. I wouldn't sell to anyone, regardless of age, who gives me a reason to think there is a compelling reason not to.

 

[CountGlockula]

I wouldn't, just wait until you're 21 son...and I'll get you some brew.

 

[aka108]

I avoid private sales. Anything I've sold is run thru a licensed dealer. The paper trail comes to me and then continues to the dealer and next owner. Figure the commission on the sale is cheap liability insurance.

 

[MachIVshooter]

As for the concept of handing a private entity a copy of my DL / DD214/ military I.D./ CHP / ANYTHING ELSE THAT CAN BE USED TO STEAL MY IDENTITY forget it.

The fact that you're using internet message boards shows that A) you don't understand just how easily someone can find out everything about you or B) You think that someone you've met face to face in an on-the-level deal is more likely to steal your identity than a cybercriminal or mail thief.

FWIW, the bill of sale also carries my full name, address and phone number, so that the buyer can rest assured I am not a fence.

I bought every gun I own private sale, even if I went out and commited a crime W/ one of my guns and left it at the scene there's no record anywhere that I ever owned that gun.

Which is exactly why I do what I do in a private sale. While CO doesn't have any registry, any gun legally sold since 4473's were implimented can be traced to the first buyer. So if I sold you a gun that I bought new, and you left it at the scene of a crime, who's door do you think they'll be knocking on? If that day ever comes, at least I have the documentation to prove that I sold it. If the guy who bought it has since resold and didn't document the sale, that's his problem.

While I may not have broken any laws in a private, undocumented transaction, I can still be tied up in interrogation rooms and court rooms and lose money trying to prove that, should the firearm be put to criminal use. Just because you aren't convicted of a crime doesn't mean that you weren't severely inconvenienced. People lose jobs, homes and spouses over this kind of thing. I don't think innocent verdicts or dismissal of charges is very comforting at that point. I'm gonna make every effort to ensure that I'm not dragged through the mud because I blindly trusted a stranger.

We have a constitutional right to firearms, but I have no constitutional obligation to sell mine. It is done at my discretion, and if the prospective buyer doesn't like my terms, they can excercise their right elsewhere.

 

[theotherwaldo]

I don't sell functional guns. I traded a clapped-out Para Warthog toward a S&W 3913, I pawned two found-and-cleared guns, I've given some relics to historical organizations, and presented some self-defense guns to family members. I've returned seven lost or stolen guns to their owners, and retrieved eleven crime guns for police agencies. Dad took some guns and sold them, I've had five stolen from me, but I do not sell guns. Period.

 

[mkonops]

Got my first at 12. So long as its legal I don't care if you're 18 or 108.

 

[Soybomb]

While I may not have broken any laws in a private, undocumented transaction, I can still be tied up in interrogation rooms and court rooms and lose money trying to prove that, should the firearm be put to criminal use. Just because you aren't convicted of a crime doesn't mean that you weren't severely inconvenienced. People lose jobs, homes and spouses over this kind of thing. I don't think innocent verdicts or dismissal of charges is very comforting at that point. I'm gonna make every effort to ensure that I'm not dragged through the mud because I blindly trusted a stranger. I don't think innocent verdicts or dismissal of charges is very comforting at that point.

I think these fears are what it boils down to and really the people I've talked to that did have a crime gun send police to their doors had no issues at all without any documentation. There were no long interoogations or lost homes. The told the police the truth and that was that. Personally I'm not worried about it. If a gun that I sell to a guy winds up being linked to a dead dealer a few towns over I don't think I'm going to raise any eye brows as a serious suspect, let alone need to worry about charges or verdicts. Do you have any examples of people like your average THR poster (for this lets just say people without criminal records) being brought up on murder charges, losing their house, or even being hassled because they followed the law and didn't get a name and address of who they sold the gun to? Maybe I'm underestimating the danger.

 

[jackdanson]

would see it as no different from selling to a 19, 21, 26 or 30 year old. In private sales, I go case by case. If the individual seems trustworthy and is willing to provide the information I keep in my records on all private sales (Full name, address, phone, and a photocopy of valid DL, military ID or CCW showing in-state residency), I will sell to anyone who can lawfully possess. On the same note, if I get a bad vibe, I don't care if you're 18 or 80, it's a no-go.

ditto

 

[coloradokevin]

I wonder how many of the "No way!" crowd had their first handgun prior to the age of 18. I know I did...

I did.

And, I'm not trying to be hypocritical.

But, I won't get involved in that legal trouble. If you choose to, so be it. I wouldn't touch it, period.



I figure, any dealer is prohibited from doing this by federal law, so I may as well stay clear of it myself (per 18 USC 922[1])

 

[david_the_greek]

I work, I vote, I volunteer, I go to school, and I bought my CZ PCR at 18, and my Kimber 1911 at 19. Did both over the internet. Just my personal experience but those willing to find out the laws and follow them to get a handgun probably aren't the problem kids. Granted that might not be true always but I'd like to think there are some other decent youth. I've been 21 no for a wee bit and no new handguns.... yet! (see my other Handguns post!)

 

[TehK1w1]

I would, depending on my opinion of the buyer after meeting them. Of course, I'm only 21 myself, and the few handguns I own I bought legally before I turned 21.