"I don't carry a gun because if I did, criminal could use it to kill me"

[Manedwolf]

About 32 years ago I was robbed at gunpoint in Baltimore City. I was with a friend heading towards his apartment building when out of the blue two guys w/ masks sprang from out of nowhere or so it seemed. (we were 16 at the time)

One guy had a shotgun and the other had a rifle. Don't know what the gauge or caliber was but I can tell you that the shotgun looked "HUGE" with the business end in your face!!

They took our wallets, watches, money (change too)and my buddy's jacket. His looked new,mine wasn't. Then we were made to lie down on the ground . At this time I thought it was gonna be lights out but then both of 'em vanished like the wind.

The police never did catch them or anyone else with their MO.

What did I learn from this incident?

1) Be very aware of whats happening around you. Pay special attention to anything unusual .

2) Be prepared to defend yourself .

3) Realize that in many cases there isn't time to "think things over" before you act.

I doubt that this list is complete. Modify it as you see fit.

A few years ago I worked for a retired LEO managing a store for him. We were located in the city and I was allowed to carry while in the store. Although I never attended a CCW class or self defense class he did teach me to some extent. While I do not think it replaces a good school I did learn many things, and I went to the range when my schedule would allow. Do I consider myself an expert? No,not by a longshot. I value life just as much as any sane person should, however, I will NEVER AGAIN be a VICTIM! After all these years I still remember staring at two muzzles in minute detail to this day! Would I shoot in self defense? YES!

The difference now, it seems, is that it's far more likely that even compliance with the attacker will get you killed. That they get a power trip out of seeing their victims' fear, and then killing them. That, and they don't want to be IDed.

Anyone who expects that if they hand over the wallet their life will be always be spared is a statistic waiting to happen.

 

[Zundfolge]

How often do you think a bunch of criminals sit around saying "Ya know Bob, I wouldn't use that gun there to rob people with ... they'll just take it away from you and kill you with it."?


Somehow the antis have convinced us that guns are too complex for the average person to use safely but the average criminal has some sort of superpowers that make them invincible with a gun.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

What's most unfortunate, to me, is that due to the skewed legal system, the split-second question I have to wonder if more CCWs ask now is "If I take this shot, am I going to lose my family/kids/home, be sued in civil court by the "Oh, he was a GOOD boy" relatives, be smeared by the anti-gun news media or railroaded by local judges?"

That's sad. In some areas especially, if the opportunity is there to prevent the loss of an innocent person's life by the use of a concealed weapon, it will be "save a life...and lose yours kids' college fund." ...to legal fees.

That occurs to me as well. You'd better just decide before it gets to that, however, how you will respond, and don't second guess or you could end up pushing up daisies instead of worrying about a law suit. Which is worse?

 

[wheelgunslinger]

My S/O likes the idea of having a gun to ward off trouble, but couldn't, by her own admission, kill someone. So, she doesn't carry.

Recently, at her job, she had a couple of males give her some trouble. They're from another country that doesn't think women are equal, and don't care to be subordinates to her. Given that, and the fact that she's an extremely attractive woman, they felt it was ok to harass her by touching her inappropriately on the job. They also disregarded direct orders from her and were generally jerks by grouping together to undermine her authority. Sort of a mass "we'll hold our breath til we get our way." thing.
The situation culminated in Sexual Harassment charges being filed, and 2 of them being sent back to their homeland. One guy who is left is still really ticked off at her.

The whole time this happened, I just kept asking "what are you going to do about this?" since I don't want a partner who is completely helpless and always asking to be bailed out. She didn't tell me all of it (the inappropriate touching part...) since she knew I'd make a necklace from the teeth I knocked out.
So, I sat back and waited. One night she came in and said "they're all really mad at me, and I'm scared just to walk to my car. What if they run me off the road. What if they... what if? what if?"
To which I relplied: "If you had a concealed handgun, I'd fell better. But, if you aren't willing to shoot, then you don't need one. " and she said, "what if they try to hurt me?"
Ladies and Gents, sexual assault isn't about some guy having fun. Rape is about power. And men who crave power over certain women very often turn into rapists. In fact, most rape victims know their rapists.
So, you can see I was very worried. One of these carribbean gents could feel emasculated by my partner simply asking him to clean a counter and want to get back at her.
In the midst of all this, I attended a party her coworkers threw at a local bar. I wasn't packing, but I'm no 99 pounder either. So, I went around meeting people and shaking hands. Each time I came to one of those guys, I made sure to hurt them with each handshake and look them in the eyes until they looked away.
But, that's all I could do, short of start a fight that could get my Carry permit yanked and me beat down and blindsided by 2 or 3 sado-bouncers. After that it was all up to her. In fact, it always has been up to her to see to her own safety, despite my inner brass-knuckled boyscout.
Now, she's changing her mind about killing in defense of self.
I keep telling her that security is an illusion, and she's starting to believe it now that she's had some real world experience.
So, to harken back to the thread beginning, you don't have to be brutalized to change your mind. The idea of what could REALLY happen can be enough, sometimes.

 

[pax]

wheelgunslinger ~

Excellent post.

My best to your lady. The road to determined self-defense is a very hard road for some folks to walk.

pax

 

[losangeles]

So, to harken back to the thread beginning, you don't have to be brutalized to change your mind. The idea of what could REALLY happen can be enough, sometimes.

Sorry to hear about your wife's situation. If she's hesitant to get a CCW, what about OC pepper spray. She might feel comfortable with that. And just like any weapon, it should be practiced periodically. I find people have an easier time with pepper spray even if they're resistant to guns.

 

[Koz]

Just say "Wow, you must really think yourself a complete moron if you're going let someone shoot you with your own gun"

 

[MD_Willington]

My wife stopped saying that after I told her that it is terribly difficult to grab a gun when there are several holes in your hand.

I showed her how hard it was to grab something after I accidentally drilled a 1/4 inch hole into the palm of my hand. (don't ask it was a surreal moment )

I told her to imagine what it would be like to try to grab anything with several 9mm or bigger holes in anyones hand.

I also said if it got to the point where someone was that close and intended on killing her that the best bet would be to empty the entire magazine through that persons hand into the trunk of their body...

Just makes sense to me.

MD

 

[CrazyIrishman]

Wheelgunslinger,

I can understand a little bit of what you're going through. When I was married my wife questioned the need for guns in general and handguns in particular. I tried to explain that some people just don't respect life and will maim and kill without feeling the least bit guilt or remorse.

Within five years we divorced and now she is remarried. She never learned the realities of life. Now she is remarried and both her and hubby think that all is well in the world AND everything is just peachy!!

Fortunately my son didn't believe this malarkey! He's a fine shot with rifle or pistol, hunts frequently, and understands having to defend himself at times. In about a month he will be applying for a CCW permit in NC.

I hope that your S/O continues to improve regarding being able to defend herself. She might even go for CCW classes!

BEST OF LUCK!

 

[Standing Wolf]

I carry a gun whenever I leave the house. Nobody is going to harm me with it.

 

[CAPTAIN MIKE]

Retention Training is a MUST

Anyone who carries a sidearm for protection should be prudent enough to also seek training for handgun retention. By no means does this make that person some kind of martial arts expert, but the 'basics' of handgun retention is a must it seems to me.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

Hey, thanks for the positive input, everybody.

I bought her a kubotan for her keychain, so she could walk to her car safely and have a chance to brain an attacker. I even showed her how to strike with it and where the proper pressure points were for it. Unfortunately, her hands are so small that her holding it was like me holding a small drain pipe. She's tiny. So now the kubotan is on my keychain.
I've tossed out the pepper spray ideas, and even the tazer thing to her. So far the most effective thing is showing her how effective a martial art like Aikido can be when employed by a physically small person like her. She likes the idea of being able to pin a grown man with one hand.
But, there's no equalizer like a handgun. It puts a well mentally prepared woman on better than equal footing with a moose of a man. And there's no need to train for 5 years to develop proficiency. So, of course, I would rather she carry a gun. But, what I want doesn't matter. It's up to her.
So, like Pax said, it's a long road. But, like a famous Buddhist said, "Every journey begins with the first step."
And so, we take it one step at a time because that is all we can do anyway.

 

[ka50]

saying stuff like that is basically implying that he has absolute no control over himself

 

[mustanger98]

I think the co-worker of the original poster's reasoning is just an excuse. He probably just doensn't like guns or doesn't feel threatened in every day society or both.

This reminds me of people who say "I've never been that scared" or "people who carry guns are looking for trouble". Or both.

 

[mustanger98]

I do agree with Pax. My original CHL instructor made sure to tell everyone that if you are not prepared to kill someone, don't carry a gun. I believe they teach you not to even pull it out unless you are prepared to shoot if you do carry. A gun is not a credible threat unless the holder is willing to use it.

My Grandpa was a WW2 veteran and Grandmama told me that's what he told her when they shot the gun he got for her that time. But she didn't like guns all that well either... in her case, she thought a 4" S&W .38 was "too big and too loud". But, in a defensive situation, you must be willing to hit 'em with the biggest stick you are able to bring to bear. Not saying a weapon has to be uncomfortable, but you must be willing to survive regardless of weight and noise.

 

[Duach Laidir]

Down here on the underside of the world where concealed carry and any other sort of carry has been banned and self defence 'is no reason to own a firearm' I have taught my son some of the defensive training that I learned in the Army.
I was fortunate enough to have 12 months with a Co Sgt Major who had been a WWII commando, and he taught us a lot.
I've just taught the son to use his thumb,protrouding over a clenched fist, to jab pressure points and other targets.
Along with the training goes plenty on the responsibility of a trained person never to start trouble, and unfortunately plenty on the necessity of knowing when to stop if a fight developes. They're strong down here on not using excessive force, the heat of the moment can become time to consider all aspects and conditions in a court room----when a split second is analysed for an hour.
Gee. I'd like to be able to carry again.

 

[Janitor]

Duach Laidir - Welcome to THR

Good job teaching your son self defence. Especially in an environment that frowns on protecting yourself.

They're strong down here on not using excessive force, the heat of the moment can become time to consider all aspects and conditions in a court room----when a split second is analysed for an hour.

Very good observation that one.

Court is much like a still photograph. Many a stunningly beautiful person's ego has fallen prey to the close inspection of imperfections (that everyone has) allowed by the examinaton of that frozen moment in time.

Gee. I'd like to be able to carry again.

I have zero doubt of that. I wish that I had words of encouragement, but it doesn't seem like your country is about to see the light any time soon. I truely wish it were otherwise. I honestly hate making this suggestion, but maybe it's time to consider emigrating?

 

[Duach Laidir]

Emigration is a great idea but unfortunately it is beyond the reach of the pocket !

Had a great friend, now unfortunately deceased, who moved overseas many years ago. He eventually moved to Denver and set up business there and did lots of hunting, when he could get away from his work.
As my boy gets older I'll teach him more. Both my Denver friend and I also took lessons/trained from/with an Australian whose job during the war was going behind enemy lines, in the Pacific, and guiding American flyers out after they had been downed. What he could do with bare hands was scary to say the least. However more than once I've seen him walk away from potential trouble so that it didn't get close and personal.
But even he preferred a good revolver.

 

[Janitor]

Both my Denver friend and I also took lessons/trained from/with an Australian whose job during the war was going behind enemy lines, in the Pacific, and guiding American flyers out after they had been downed.

Awsome to be trained by a hero. Skills lessons, and possibly great, hair raising stories to boot.

Understand about the costs associated with moving. I really hate that emigration could be the best solution (if it were financially viable). Australia needs far more men like you, and the man your son is probably going to become. Not fewer.

And we all (well ... many of us) prefer a good revolver.

 

[stevelyn]

I guess during the fighting and scratching to get to the top of the food chain, your co-worker was one of those left behind.

 

[BedPimp]

After discussing this extensively with my girlfriend over several weeks, she had a revelation. In a defensive situation, you are doing just enough to get the attacker to stop. It's not her choice, but the assailant's. She went from being scared of guns to enthusiastically shooting my shotgun within days.

 

[thorn726]

this is the MOST

commonly heard response to gun ownership around me, here in the Bay area. IDIOTS.

i imagine the "try to take my water gun" test in in this thread somewhere already, and the people with the sense to listen long enuogh to hear that usually do understand- as long as you are REady to USE your wepaon, nobody is taking it from you

 

[Tequila_Sauer]

One thing I think a lot of anti's never take into account is the will to kill. Many seem to equate a gun with the will to kill.

IE: "People who kill occasionally use guns, so if you took away guns, people who kill would simply stop killing"

If a person has that will, the intent on killing a man or woman, chances are that whether you're carrying a gun or not, they're going to attempt to murder you. If they get your gun and kill you with it, they were probably going to kill you anyway. Simply seizing the gun didn't make them anymore likely to kill, I believe, unless maybe they were already shot with it and got to it.

 

[obiwan1]

I don't drive because I may get carjacked

 

[akodo]

i'd tell him, fine. Whatever. It is your decision to make, and it is a free country. However, just because HE and HIS FAMILY make that choice doesn't mean they should be forcing you to accept the same choice.

Some people choose not to own fire arms. Fine. Hell, some people are so pacifisct they would rather be shot and killed than do violence to stop a killer. I think they are crazy, but they are entitled to their opinion.

Now, if he starts trying to pass it off as fact 'if you have a gun it is more likely that the criminal will kill you than if you don't' call bull????. Otherwise just let him be an easy target.