Dave Markowitz
Member
As a matter of fact, it's been done: See http://www.jpfo.org/smle.htm
It's kinda interesting, in a perverted sort of way.
I submit the Enfield is the Ultimate SHTF rifle!
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As a matter of fact, it's been done: See http://www.jpfo.org/smle.htm
It's kinda interesting, in a perverted sort of way.
There is (was) someone who was converting Enfields to 7.62X54R a while back. For the life of me I can't remember who the heck it was or what the conversion entailed. I think it was a pretty simple rechambering job.
Personally, I've been tempted to ream my chamber out to 303 Epps. It still allows you fire standard 303 Brit. ammo while being able to step your reloads up a notch. As a side benefit, case life is supposed to be greatly enhanced.
It's too bad the supply of 303 Greek ammo (HXP) dried up. That was great ammo! I lucked into 800rnds of it still sealed in tins earlier this year. Winchester white box is excellent ammo. Sellier and Bellot makes some very good, affordable ammo. I've also had excellant results with Century's Hotshot ammo. They offer FMJ and soft point ammo. Accuracy with the Hotshot ammo has been very good (1.25 moa) and I can buy it locally for $28 for 200rnds.
Personally, I've been tempted to ream my chamber out to 303 Epps. It still allows you fire standard 303 Brit. ammo while being able to step your reloads up a notch. As a side benefit, case life is supposed to be greatly enhanced.
It's too bad the supply of 303 Greek ammo (HXP) dried up. That was great ammo! I lucked into 800rnds of it still sealed in tins earlier this year. Winchester white box is excellent ammo. Sellier and Bellot makes some very good, affordable ammo. I've also had excellant results with Century's Hotshot ammo. They offer FMJ and soft point ammo. Accuracy with the Hotshot ammo has been very good (1.25 moa) and I can buy it locally for $28 for 200rnds.
Biff
Member
WildIgottoomuchtimeonmyhandsAlaska got me thinking...
Okay, too much thinking could get expensive!
Here is my idea: the WildWest Convertible!
Take one #3 or #4 Enfield. Modify it so that it becomes a take-down similar to the WWG Co-Pilot. Supply a 20" .45-70 (or Wild West's magnumized .45-90) barrel and a 24" .303 barrel with scout mounts. Supply an extra bolt head for tha .45-70 rim if necessary. Put a WWG ghost ring on the reciever.
...as if Steve didn't have enough to do...
Okay, too much thinking could get expensive!
Here is my idea: the WildWest Convertible!
Take one #3 or #4 Enfield. Modify it so that it becomes a take-down similar to the WWG Co-Pilot. Supply a 20" .45-70 (or Wild West's magnumized .45-90) barrel and a 24" .303 barrel with scout mounts. Supply an extra bolt head for tha .45-70 rim if necessary. Put a WWG ghost ring on the reciever.
...as if Steve didn't have enough to do...
Wildalaska
member
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhahahahahahahaha
WildimnotshowingthatonetoanybodyAlaska
WildimnotshowingthatonetoanybodyAlaska
rbernie
Contributing Member
But the interesting part of all of this is that NOBODY is trying to sell the idea of a levergun (even one of WildihavetoomuchtimeonmyhandsAlaska's own creations) as the ultimate SHTF rifle.
I find that, as Mr Spock used to say, fascinating.
I find that, as Mr Spock used to say, fascinating.
Wildalaska
member
Lever action rifles I submit are more specialized tools...the ones we make are not optimum for SHTF for the following reasons:
1. In the 457 and 50 calibers, the recoil is far more potent than even the nastiest of the classic SHTF rifle...
2. Range, even with 30/30s, is limited to 200 +/- yards...
3. Both 457 and 50 require specialized loads
4. Shooting lever guns from the prone position is harder than a bolt gun....
If I am gonna be stuck with nothing but large furries around, gimme a 457 (kill anyhtibng on the planet and use shot shells)...but if I am worried aboutr 2 legged demonratkerrryitemutantleftiezombies, gimme that thetre enfiled
WildenfieldAlaska
Biff
Member
Wild...
I got a few ideas on how to do it. This would open up the CA and AU markets for Jim. Possibly a good light African rifle as well.
I got a few ideas on how to do it. This would open up the CA and AU markets for Jim. Possibly a good light African rifle as well.
If we are gonna go ultimate Grizzly defense rifle, maybe someone could come up with a 45-70 AK.
I still love the leverguns too though.
If we are going to pull them into the SHTF rifle debate, I am thinking that the 99 Savage 308 is the best candidate. It is about the only lever gun that will match performance with a bolt action. It is true that there are a few Browning 1895's and some Winchester 88's out there, but I still think the Savage would be the best candidate.
I guess there are Browning BLR's too, but I don't know much about them.
Back to the original thread though, anyone know anything about the new AIA Enfields? I contacted Tri-Star a few weeks ago and the word is that the M-10 is currently available and that others will be shortly. I am planning to replace my FAL with one when I get employed again.
In the mean time, does anyone else have one yet? Has there been a gun-mag evaluation done on them yet?
I am thinking that they have HUGE potential.
I still love the leverguns too though.
If we are going to pull them into the SHTF rifle debate, I am thinking that the 99 Savage 308 is the best candidate. It is about the only lever gun that will match performance with a bolt action. It is true that there are a few Browning 1895's and some Winchester 88's out there, but I still think the Savage would be the best candidate.
I guess there are Browning BLR's too, but I don't know much about them.
Back to the original thread though, anyone know anything about the new AIA Enfields? I contacted Tri-Star a few weeks ago and the word is that the M-10 is currently available and that others will be shortly. I am planning to replace my FAL with one when I get employed again.
In the mean time, does anyone else have one yet? Has there been a gun-mag evaluation done on them yet?
I am thinking that they have HUGE potential.
Wildalaska
member
Nope, nope nope no Enfiled conversions...
WildnopenopeAlaska
Feanaro
Member
Not all of us are as economically well off as you, jelly roll.
For the price of an Enfield and that much ammo, I could buy an AK and three or four times that much ammo locally. Or if we allow out-of-state purchases, an M48A and a ton of Yugo 8mm from ammunitionstore.com. Heck, I can't even FIND .303 of any sort round these parts. Sure, a pleb like myself could buy the ammo little by little but what if the commie zombie JBT U.N. Grizzly bears attack before then? What if part of your stock is destroyed in a tragic smelting accident? Wildalaska
member
Jelly Roll?
Not plural?
Dude I pull my shirt off I got more rolls than a Jewish Deli!!!!!
Anyway, back on topic, may I kindly direct your alls undivided attention to reaerch the various ammo suppliers wherein you can buy 303 ammo at not much more than Russkie new manufacture...yes Russkie surplus is cheaper,...
but come on, when the mutantaliencommies are attacking, ya gonna trust yer families life to a lesser platform just becasue its cheap???
WildithinknotAlaska
Not plural?
Dude I pull my shirt off I got more rolls than a Jewish Deli!!!!!
Anyway, back on topic, may I kindly direct your alls undivided attention to reaerch the various ammo suppliers wherein you can buy 303 ammo at not much more than Russkie new manufacture...yes Russkie surplus is cheaper,...
but come on, when the mutantaliencommies are attacking, ya gonna trust yer families life to a lesser platform just becasue its cheap???
WildithinknotAlaska
Just ordered a buttload of .303 Brit from online...
Pretty darned cheap. Still sitting on a bunch of Sellier & Bellot .303, and one of my Dillon 550 conversion kits is set up for .303, with a big bag of Winchester unfired brass sitting nearby. I'm not worried, I figure 1000 rounds is enough for a while. Heck, I figure 1000 rounds on hand for each of the 24 calibers I shoot and reload for is at least adequate.
Pretty darned cheap. Still sitting on a bunch of Sellier & Bellot .303, and one of my Dillon 550 conversion kits is set up for .303, with a big bag of Winchester unfired brass sitting nearby. I'm not worried, I figure 1000 rounds is enough for a while. Heck, I figure 1000 rounds on hand for each of the 24 calibers I shoot and reload for is at least adequate.
Feanaro
Member
True enough, there are places I'm sure. I've never looked though. But I can get heaps of 7.62x39 Wolf or Barnaul locally as well. I might find a box or three of .303 if I look real hard. Now if I had 2000 rounds on hand, that's another story. But in an emergency situation I probably wouldn't have it. I don't have two hundred rounds on me, between three rifles. I would need to obtain something fast like.
Six people armed with "lesser platforms" is better than two or three people with the ub3rl337gunz0rsofdewm! for the same price.
Now if money is no object... sure. Assuming we accept the Lee Enfield as the superior platform. My experiance is small there, I admit. But it hasn't been really impressive.With all the great surplus rifles out there, you really don't have to settle for less.
It is true that some of you can't find .303 locally. But I bet that you can find some type of 8mm locally, and probably 7.62x54 as well. Almost certainly 7.62x39.
The Mosin Nagant, Mauser, and SKS are well proven weapons. You can get them really cheap as far as guns go (especially the Mosin Nagants).
If all else fails, pick up a couple 30-30's and call it a day. I can't imagine that there is anywhere in the US that you can't get a couple boxes of 30-30 ammo.
I guess what it comes right down to is that there is no one rifle that fits all sizes. Gotta look at your situation and see what works well for you.
I also brought up the idea of rechambering an Enfield on another board. It is a cool idea, but someone pointed out to me that I would be back to the same problem after the supply of 7.62x54 dries up.
I guess no matter what, you gotta buy what you want and stockpile a good supply of ammo and reloading components. I plan to keep my grandkids shooting my guns.
It is true that some of you can't find .303 locally. But I bet that you can find some type of 8mm locally, and probably 7.62x54 as well. Almost certainly 7.62x39.
The Mosin Nagant, Mauser, and SKS are well proven weapons. You can get them really cheap as far as guns go (especially the Mosin Nagants).
If all else fails, pick up a couple 30-30's and call it a day. I can't imagine that there is anywhere in the US that you can't get a couple boxes of 30-30 ammo.
I guess what it comes right down to is that there is no one rifle that fits all sizes. Gotta look at your situation and see what works well for you.
I also brought up the idea of rechambering an Enfield on another board. It is a cool idea, but someone pointed out to me that I would be back to the same problem after the supply of 7.62x54 dries up.
I guess no matter what, you gotta buy what you want and stockpile a good supply of ammo and reloading components. I plan to keep my grandkids shooting my guns.
BryanP
Member
I don't know that it's The Ultimate(tm) but since I gave in to weakness and bought a No. 4 Mk 2 yesterday at the Nashville gun show I would like to know the best source for inexpensive .303. I prefer non-corrosive but if there's a massive price difference I could be convinced to spend extra time on cleaning.
Oh, and I would like to officially blame OEF_VET, Cslinger, Sheslinger and admar2. I told Frank to dope-slap me if he saw me buying a gun and instead they stood there encouraging me. Bunch'a danged enablers, that's what ya are.
Oh, and I would like to officially blame OEF_VET, Cslinger, Sheslinger and admar2. I told Frank to dope-slap me if he saw me buying a gun and instead they stood there encouraging me. Bunch'a danged enablers, that's what ya are.
Vern Humphrey
Member
Why not let the enemy vote? After all, these are the people who went up against the battle rifles.
No one on the other side tried to imitate the M/N, the Lee-Enfield, and so on. The one rifle both the Japanese tried to imitate was the M1.
No one on the other side tried to imitate the M/N, the Lee-Enfield, and so on. The one rifle both the Japanese tried to imitate was the M1.
jobu07
Contributing Member
I've got a couple of enfields, a mk 3 and a No4. Both are damn good rifles and i've found .303 to be just as powerful a round for shootin' logs and pieces of paper as 7.62x54R. I love both of my nagants also, but I think that the enfield is just a slicker action than most other bolt guns out there. It's faster to operate without beating yourself up I think, and .303 is more than adequate for whatever it is you'll be shooting at. It wouldn't be my first choice if I were going to be offensive once the shtf, but it's a fine rifle for surviving in the wilderness and defending yourself against attackers.
Vern Humphrey
Member
The M1 is about as accurate as the Lee-Enfield. Individual specimens of either may be more or less accurate than the counterpart rifle. By and large, the M1 is as accurate as its sights -- and the M1 as issued has very good iron sights.
Skofnung
Member
Lee Enfield?
Great gun.
My only beef? It has a pretty nappy trigger, even for a service rifle. Out of the 8 or 9 that I have fired, only one had a good trigger.
Minor beef over. It's good enough for government work.
My counter proposition is that a suppressed bolt action .22 LR is the ideal.
Great gun.
My only beef? It has a pretty nappy trigger, even for a service rifle. Out of the 8 or 9 that I have fired, only one had a good trigger.
Minor beef over. It's good enough for government work.
My counter proposition is that a suppressed bolt action .22 LR is the ideal.
Wildalaska
member
Vern if the M1 was as good as the Enfield the British would have used it
Wildinww1Alaska
Wildinww1Alaska
Vern Humphrey
Member
Quote:
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Vern if the M1 was as good as the Enfield the British would have used it.
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If the British knew bupkis about guns, we'd be singing "God Save the Queen" right now.
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Vern if the M1 was as good as the Enfield the British would have used it.
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If the British knew bupkis about guns, we'd be singing "God Save the Queen" right now.
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