If "Police" break down your door and come in with guns drawn. Would you shoot them?

[ezoeni]

Yes... unless I see patrol cars and lights flashing outside

After hearing about these home invasions. Had one here in a town close by back in the beginning of the year, where bg's announced they were cops and broke in and did there thing.

Im in my home!

 

[Detachment Charlie]

Masks & Guns

I've got a REAL problem with cops wearing balaclavas or any masks. I guess I'm just old and out of date because I believe there are only two types of masked men with guns: The Lone Ranger and bad guys...and there ain't no Lone Ranger.
Hi-Ho Silver!!!

 

[G-Raptor]

You shoot a uniformed cop, any place, any time, and you are in for a world of hurt. The only exception would be if you thought you might be killed (then you are probably dirty anyway). You might have a chance in court if he were in plain clothes, but in blue, the man is going to put you away.

If he's dressed in blue with a shiny badge on his chest, I'd take the chance he's for real. Flashing lights in the front of the house would help convince me. But, if he's dressed in black with a ski-mask over his face, that's another story.

I believe it was Jeff Cooper who said "any man wearing a mask and carrying a gun is a legitimate target".

When cops dress like hitmen and gangsters, they increase their own risk of "friendly fire" from innocent citizens.

 

[mjustice]

I pray I never have to make that decision. If it does happen, I'll be sure to try the "ID or Die!" routine. Otherwise, it may be the end of mjustice and a few officers. A lose-lose indeed.

Sometimes I think if the police took the time to lure people outside of the home that most of these incidents could be avoided.

At the rate these incidents are escalating, "Dynamic Entry" may have to be renamed "Dynamic Death". Eventually they are going to break down the wrong door and the S is really going to hit the F when they realize that the person on the other side isn't fooling around...

MJ

 

[standingbear]

roger that detachment charlie.

will someone answer why the need for black masks and the ninja garb?

 

[PATH]

I guess I would make that call when and if it really happened. Not very likely for me though!

 

[blades67]

I'll let you know if it ever happens.

 

[Blackhawk]

Baba Louie nailed it -- with about 37 16d.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I am surprised that the Fort Worth convenience store owner's son who shot the female cop did not get fired on or shot himself.

Here is a link to where a home owner did shoot at the cops and did end up dead for it.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums...readid=29414&highlight=police+home+owner+shot

 

[cratz2]

Ideally, we will wind up negotiating at gunpoint,

No offence, but that's pretty funny. A actual SWAT team busts through your door, unannounced with a ramrod and I promise you they are NOT going to negotiate with you if you have a gun pointed at them...

I live in the suburbs and if a group of 'officers' busted down my door, I would probably offer very little resistance, if any. Chances are my kids are in the house and I'm certainly not going to risk their lives. Furthermore, I've never done anything to warrant such a treatment and if they were in fact officers, representatives of my city or state, then my city or state are going to be sending me a very small check with lots of numbers on it in pretty short order. I also don't deal with the types of people that would bust down my door for no reason. Maybe I live a sheltered life but I firmly believe that when most people have something that direct happen to them, they've done something to warrant it. Not necessarily deserve, but probably something to warrant.

 

[pax]

As my shooting buddy once pointed out to me, "Not all scenarios are survivable."

With that in mind, if a gang of black-clad, ski-mask wearing, scary looking people crashes down my door, I have a split second to make an important decision.

Four possibilities:

1) They are police, and I hold my fire and cooperate. I live.
2) They are police, and I shoot. I die, by quick gunfire.
3) They are bad guys, and I don't shoot. I die -- slowly, by rape and torture.
4) They are bad guys, and I shoot. I might live; I might die quickly. I probably won't die by torture.

Okay, given all that. I'd rather live than die.

But if I have to choose a way to die, I'd rather die by a quick bullet than by a gang rape and slow torture. And I'd like to take some of the scum with me when I go.

Sorry, Mr. Policeman. I hope you don't knock over my door.

pax

 

[pax]

One more thought.

If they're police, and I shoot. I die, but my family lives.

If they're bad guys, and I don't shoot. My family dies.

pax

 

[sm]

Reality sometimes sucks. Bad things do happen to good people.

I have a better chance of it being BG's than LEO's ,.. from past life experiences we'll say. But anything can occur in an apt complex--mix up on deliveries all the time.
Heard it said, the only thing left of me when I die is that which doesn't burn...
If I make it , I'll share, If not ya'll decide.

 

[mrat]

I have seen a lot of threads on gun boards about "what to do if your house is no knocked by the police". I don't lie in bed awake at night worrying about this. I am starting to think that maybe I have a problem because it seems a high number of people think this is a real danger and I don't.

 

[Matt1911]

I also have dogs(6 of them)who stay indoors with us,being in a rural area,with the pups,i would have plenty of warning if anyone got close to the house.I can not imagine a no-knock raid with 6 dogs barking thier heads off.That may be a wrong assumsion,but even if a bonified police team were here,the pups sound quite vicious.At this point and time,if the door opened,i would shoot,so would my wife,my son,my daughter....
Matt

 

[2nd Amendment]

I'm still waiting on that mask and Ninja suit explanation. I've been waiting several years. The fact is that so long as this is regular procedure there's a good chance somebody other than myself is going to get shot.

A potential problem, depending on your pov, is the layout of my new house. The cops can bust in that door without accomplishing a whole lot because I am sitting in a second floor loft accessed by a catwalk. There'll be no organized charge into my bedroom no matter how "good" they may be at their job. It's just physically impossible. This gives me a defensible high ground and it slows down any attack, good guys or bad. For the bad guys it's pretty much a death sentence. For the good guys it may save everyones life. The problem is, thx to those Ninja suits, figuring out who's who.

 

[Oleg Volk]

AFAIK, some members have done raids while working as police officers. I'd like to hear from them.

What I heard outside of THR makes me think that most cops do not like the practice. That said, they have a pretty good chance of surviving, as they can armor up and the residents seldom have rifles handy. This ends up being a process in which errors result in tax-financed payouts to survivors of the affected residents but no dead intruders or personal financial responsibility.

At the same time, it seems that even the street cops are under a great deal of oversight and I'd be surprised in SWAT/OMON types don't have their boss breathing down their necks the whole time. So I'd like to hear from the source than from the reporters who generally do not get the details right.

 

[TheOtherOne]

mrat:
I have seen a lot of threads on gun boards about "what to do if your house is no knocked by the police". I don't lie in bed awake at night worrying about this. I am starting to think that maybe I have a problem because it seems a high number of people think this is a real danger and I don't.

Of course it's never happened to me and I doubt it every will and I don't really worry about it either, but I still think it's nice to always be prepared mentally for whatever may happen.

And it can happen.... My only real experience wtih anything like this is a "friend of a friend" thing when I lived in San Antonio. It wasn't the exact same type of situation we are talking about here but 5 people were murdered when the bad guys got the wrong house. I kind of new one of the people from Jefferson High. The French Street murders: http://organizedcrime.about.com/library/weekly/aa082002a.htm

 

[sm]

I too would like to hear from those LEO types that have actually participated. Feedback from Dept. and personal perspective.

Like I said with Home Invasions, and carjackings around ,past experiences...I don't think they'll be selling GS cookies. Never Condition white .

 

[Pappy John]

2nd A,

There was a considerable TFL thread that ran on the reasons for the use of the ninja masks. It was started during the time of the D.C. sniper shootings concerning some news pictures of masked police involved in one of the roadblocks in effect at the time to try and find the shooters. Several LEO's responded saying they were in all probability undercover narcotics officers with a need to keep thier identities hidden in order to perform thier undercover activities. And that the speed that was required to set up these roadblocks in time to be effective meant that all nearby officers had to become involved, undercover or not.

Myself? The arguments at the time did NOT convince me that masked officers are EVER....repeat EVER....a good idea. It fuzzes the line between good and bad that the public has when it thinks about our law enforcement officers. The good guys DON'T wear the masks. Undercover officers should stay out of public situations.

 

[2nd Amendment]

You're right and I should have made myself more plain. I'm still waiting to hear a good explanation since there was nothing in that thread(or a couple others) that ever seemed at all satisfactory. It does blur the line and I've yet to see anything that outweighs the potential damage.

 

[HS/LD]

"any man wearing a mask and carrying a gun is a legitimate target".


I agree.
Enter at your peril.


HS/LD

 

[SoDFW Jason]

If ANYBODY breaks down my door(do you know how damned expensive those are to replace? At least a Yugo SKS or so.) they can fully expect to spring a leak post haste.

 

[Beren]

I have to agree with Pax.

I would never knowingly fire upon a police officer, with the possible exception of a SHTF scenario in which the government is going house-to-house confiscated everyone's firearms.

All a criminal has to do is pull on some uniform, stick a shiny fake badge on it, and break down a door while shouting "Police!" How, in a split second, am I going to ascertain whether or not the uniform is genuine? I can't.

If someone busts my door open, I can only assume that hostile intent is involved. I'll try the "ID or die" routine, if I remember, but you'll likely read about my untimely death in the papers - one way or another.

If the police knock and announce a warrant, I will cooperate (again, with the possible exception of wholesale firearms confiscation from the public.)

No-knock raids ONLY serve a legitimate purpose in hostage situations. Any other use of them is a disgusting perversion of police powers.

 

[WonderNine]

It's a lose lose situation for all parties involved, and that is why I will always oppose no-knock raids of any kind regardless of the crime involved. Unless a life is at stake, and it is a confirmed hostage situation, I firmly believe no-knock raids are the unconstitutional result of a police state gone mad. There is ALWAYS a better place to arrest a suspect than by raiding his home while he is inside, and nothing will convince me otherwise.

If you can muster a raid force of 8 fully decked SWAT men, you can damn sure cough up 10 uniformed B&W's to bumrush a perp in public. There are 1000 better methods than a No-knock Raid, and the answer to the original question, is yes, I would definitely shoot, probably to my own demise.

I agree with this 100%. I see no need for no-knock home raids unless their is a confirmed hostage situation or the homeowner is believed to be in possession or nuclear or bio/chem weapons manufactor.

I'll shoot first and ask questions later as well.