I'm Giving Up On 1911s

[exdetsgt]

I've got a new minor problem with my new American Classic Commander. First problem was that I couldn't get the slide stop out. Couple of swipes with a diamond file on one edge of the little notch in the slide, problem solved.

Second problem is new to me: Every once in awhile during shooting the slide does not go fully forward into battery. Sometime I can give it a little push and it goes forward. Other times not. Then I have to drop the magazine, retract the slide, and the round falls out into my hand. Close examination of the cartridge reveals nothing. Looks just the same as when I loaded it. These are not reloads but right out of the box new.

Could it be that I need to buy a stiffer spring?

 

[1911Tuner]

Sounds more like a little too much deflection in the extractor...or too much of the tensioning wall showing past the guide block it passes through.

If it looks anything like this, there's about twice as much deflection than it should have.

 

[exdetsgt]

Thanks, 1911 Tuner. Doesn't stick out that far. Took it over to the Douglas LGS where both owners are 1911 guys. I wrote out what you said and they said you definitely knew 1911's. So they checked that first. Wasn't out of spec.

Then they took out the barrel and discovered that when they tried inserting a round by hand (using an aluminum case so it would mark clearly) they discovered that it did not seat easily into the barrel and you could see the mark on the case. Then one of them used a shaft with markings that was supposed to seat precisely at a certain mark. It didn't quite make it. So they fixed that problem and now an inserted round seats precisely where it should.

I'll take it to the range again and see if now it runs as it should.

Once again, thanks for your suggestions and the photograph.

 

[tinygnat219]

I have 4 1911s right now and I don't carry any of them. I take them out to the range every now and then if I want to experience them. Here's why I don't carry them:
1. Too heavy for the limited capacity of 8 or even 10 rounds.
2. Too finicky. Yes, they are too finicky for me to depend on.
3. Capacity. 7-8 rounds may have worked well 75 years ago or so, but we've made progress. I prefer something with minimum 15 rounds.
4. Manual safeties. I generally disdain them.

For me, the 1911 is a quaint anachronism whose time has come and gone and has been surpassed by other options. That is not to say that it is less effective, or that it's not a useful firearm. Shoot, there are more variants being made by more entities than at any other time in it's storied 100 plus year history. It's just not something I'll keep in my toolbox of different carry guns.
I'm more of a polymer framed 9MM kinda guy. It's a simple system that works for me and has no manual safeties.
I DO trade for 1911s though as they tend to hold their value pretty solidly.

 

[peacebutready]

I have 4 1911s right now and I don't carry any of them. I take them out to the range every now and then if I want to experience them. Here's why I don't carry them:
1. Too heavy for the limited capacity of 8 or even 10 rounds.
2. Too finicky. Yes, they are too finicky for me to depend on.
3. Capacity. 7-8 rounds may have worked well 75 years ago or so, but we've made progress. I prefer something with minimum 15 rounds.
4. Manual safeties. I generally disdain them.

I'm more of a polymer framed 9MM kinda guy. It's a simple system that works for me and has no manual safeties.

1. Weight tames the recoil. Slender profile for the 1911s, especially with slim-grips.
2. Finicky out the box frequently. Also subpar parts like extractors and MIM parts. Extractors can be replaced with original spring-steel spec ones from Cylinder & Slide. MIM parts can be replaced with tool-steel parts.
3. IDPA and IPSC shooting will build proficiency for mag reloads.

Trigger on 1911s, especially tuned ones are much sweeter than the polymer guns. The polymer gun triggers can be tuned as well, though. It still won't match a 1911 and a tuned polymer might be best with a manual safety.

.45 does have more oomph than the 9mm.

 

[1911Tuner]

Took it over to the Douglas LGS where both owners are 1911 guys. I wrote out what you said and they said you definitely knew 1911's. So they checked that first. Wasn't out of spec.

That deflection issue is one of those little things that not many people know about...and these days it's more common than you'd think. With roughly half the failure to go to or return to battery problems that I see...the position of the extractor in the breechface is the bug.

We hear the advice to loosen up extractor tension when a simple failure to go to battery is in the works, but if excessive deflection is the cause, you can relieve tension until the gun fails to extract and/or eject without curing the RTB problem.

When the distance between those blocks is within spec, and the deflection is good at .010-.102 inch...the gun will run like a top with a lot more extractor tension than most will tell you is ideal.

 

[tomrkba]

The Real Truth About 1911s describes some of the problems of the 1911 and mirrors what I have been saying: you have to be a technician as well as a shooter with the 1911.

 

[mattk]

The vast majority of quality brand 1911s run 100% with decent mags. You don't have to be a technician or gunsmith to own one. The problem is there are so many brands out there and not all of them are good plus there are even more mag manufacturers.
Sure good companies occasionally have a lemon but if its Colt STI or Springfield, they will fix it.
I have seen plenty of broken glocks and smiths and sigs out there. For some reason people with broken guns that aren't 1911s just send them in for warranty work.

 

[1911Tuner]

The Real Truth About 1911s

The one picture in that write-up is called a Bolt Over Base misfeed, and it's a magazine spring problem. In about 90% of the feed problems, the magazine is at the root of it...and in about 90% of magazine-related feed problems, the spring or the follower is the cause...and most of all that stems from using magazines that deviate from the original specs.

Wish I had a dollar for every problem 1911 that I've "fixed" by doing no more than handing the disgruntled owner a few of my magazines to try. I tell ya, they've been plumb mystified when their problems vanished.

The rest of it? Oh, how I lol'd and gigglesnorted. Wish I could buy him for what he knows and sell him for what he thinks he knows.

And you can run tell him that I said that. I don't mind a bit.

mirrors what I have been saying: you have to be a technician as well as a shooter with the 1911.

I guess all those hundreds of thousands of GIs who carried'em were armorers, then.

 

[HDCamel]

I agree with Tuner, as always, but we also need to remember that it's not that the magazines are necessarily "bad" so much as they don't really jive with certain 1911-pattern pistols.

For example, my cheap Turkish copy runs Kimber mags just fine, but my buddy's Springfield can't run 3 rounds through them without jamming. Interestingly enough, the Turk doesn't like Wilson Combats for some reason. More expensive does not equate to more reliable.

That being said, magazines made to mil-spec always seem to work well. Doubly so when the gun is mil-spec too.

 

[Hangingrock]

HDCamel

Doubly so when the gun is mil-spec too.

: What I am going to ask is not meant to be nettlesome or confrontational but I must ask the following. What 1911 series pistols have been built to Mil-Spec since those produced during WW2?

 

[1911Tuner]

I must ask the following. What 1911 series pistols have been built to Mil-Spec since those produced during WW2?

As far as dimensions and tolerances go? Most of'em...as long as they're single stack with internal extractors. Some are a little tighter than they need to be, but that's really neither here nor there. I've occasionally run into one with the feed ramp or the frame rails cut wrong or mislocated, but that's a matter of QC and a job for the warranty department.

The majority of the ones that I mentioned "fixing" with proper magazines were built by various manufacturers in the last 20 years.

And I didn't polish any feed ramps.

 

[Gun Master]

1911 Enigma

Not all 1911's are created equal.

I'm satisfied with my 1980 Series Colt Gov. Model. I also have a clone (Star Model P).

Good for the money shooter is Rock Island Armory. Better, but more expensive, Remington R1, which also has a nicer look. (As an aside, I'm looking forward to the Rem. R51 - 9mm later on).

 

[peacebutready]

Wish I had a dollar for every problem 1911 that I've "fixed" by doing no more than handing the disgruntled owner a few of my magazines to try. I tell ya, they've been plumb mystified when their problems vanished.

The rest of it? Oh, how I lol'd and gigglesnorted. Wish I could buy him for what he knows and sell him for what he thinks he knows.

I think they're into parallel feed lip mags.

 

[peacebutready]

I've occasionally run into one with the feed ramp or the frame rails cut wrong or mislocated, but that's a matter of QC and a job for the warranty department.

I don't think the warranty department of the manufacturers that make mistakes like that want to be bothered. A lot of owners have had to bite the bullet, no pun intended.

 

[tomrkba]

MY PERSONAL PATH AWAY FROM THE 1911 by Hilton Yam

Tim and I taught a few 1911 specific classes in the last couple years, and we typically saw a failure rate of over 50% of the student pistols in each class. Something that really resonated with us was a pair of LEO’s who came to one class with the 1911s that they carried for work. The guys enjoyed the class so much they came back again the following year. This second time they still brought their 1911s, but told us they started to carry Glocks at work after seeing all the things that went wrong with the student guns and how difficult it was to keep the guns in top shape.

Being bombarded with nothing but the failures of the 1911 design, day in and day out – days, nights, weekdays, weekends, in person, on line, via email, by telephone, at work, on vacation – pretty much wore me out for the charm of tinkering with the gun. It is one thing to keep after 1-2 of your own 1911s, and a whole other matter to be a professional surrounded by guns constantly seeking your attention.

It is easy to get caught up in the mystique and history of the 1911, but the design is over 100 years old, and we have learned a few things about designing and manufacturing since then. If you enjoy the craftsmanship of a finely built 1911 or you enjoy tinkering on your own, by all means continue to enjoy them. However, if training, shooting, and performance is your primary goal and you lack the resources, time, patience, or knowledge to keep after a 1911, then be realistic and choose something more modern.

 

[tomrkba]

Not all 1911's are created equal.

But they all start out on the short bus and tend to return to it even after the owner has spent gobs of money.

 

[SP2000]

I like the look and feel of 1911's, but there is no way I'd trust one as a carry gun/nightstand gun over my Glock. JMO. Far too many little glitches or kinks with it. For the record, I've had no problems with my 1911's.

 

[MCMXI]

If you enjoy the craftsmanship of a finely built 1911 or you enjoy tinkering on your own, by all means continue to enjoy them. However, if training, shooting, and performance is your primary goal and you lack the resources, time, patience, or knowledge to keep after a 1911, then be realistic and choose something more modern.

Yam makes a good point here. For me my 1911s are all about the journey whereas my SIGs and Rugers are all about the destination.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

But they all start out on the short bus and tend to return to it even after the owner has spent gobs of money.

Uh huh. Like the $425 I spent buying my Delta Elite? The $459 I spent buying my Mark IV? Or the $950 I spent buying my Kimber UCDP? Because there has only been ammo and cleaning since, on all three.

 

[Potatohead]

Got to run and get more popcorn!

lol

 

[Potatohead]

off topic question

What exactly do you guys mean by a "tuned" gun?

 

[tomrkba]

Like the $425 I spent buying my Delta Elite? The $459 I spent buying my Mark IV? Or the $950 I spent buying my Kimber UCDP? Because there has only been ammo and cleaning since, on all three.

It's amazing how many perfect 1911's people have.

Where was that sale on Delta Elites? I would love to save 70% on a new one.

What exactly do you guys mean by a "tuned" gun?

I define "tuned" as one that has been worked on by a gunsmith for the purposes of making it reliable and/or improving aspects of its performance such as the trigger pull.

 

[farm23]

I haven't read all of this thread so this might not be new. First I like 1911's and carry one when going to town so I am biased. If the gun was "wet" with oil it had too much and I find that much oil is trouble. Second many guns require a break in period. Third not all 1911 are equal and there are some being made that the only thing good about them is the price. Don't give up on the concept as it has been around for a long time and has proven it can be dependable.

 

[miles1]

Slightly off topic.....1911Tuner;are their any "budget" 1911's that you personally would recommend?For those that don't have the $$$$ to spend on a expensive Colt are they better off getting something else?I'm not trying to put you on the spot honest.I would really like your insight that might help people(including me) in deciding whether to invest in this type of gun.Thanks Tuner.