Interaction with Realtor - RE:CCW

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learn2shoot

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I have been working with this realtor for a few weeks, and have seen about 20 houses, and have developed a good rapport. Last night at about 8:30 we were viewing a house which was supposed to be vacant. Well someone had moved in! We didn't realize this until we were in the basement and saw (and smelled) the mess. This included a small shrine of sorts, complete with candles, and pictures, and weird flags. Well the realtor said "I do not feel comfortable here, I do not feel safe." My wife who know I carry said she was not concerned, but did move a little closer to me :). The realtor again stated that she did not feel safe. I said there was nothing to worry about, and that I was armed and lifted my shirt a little. She said that she felt a lot better but still wanted to leave. We left and are scheduled to go out again to see a few more houses.

After we have bought a house and have settled, I will offer to teach her to shoot (my wife says I can't until then). Hopefully she will get her CCW.
 
Let me be the first to say...big mistake.

I don't want to sound critical, but in my opinion you should never under any circumstances reveal to someone that you are carrying.

EDIT: Maybe "big" was the wrong word, but I still think it was a mistake. :)
 
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My Realtor has a CCW and she packs a J-Frame.


One reason that gun ownership and CCW are frowned upon by the sheeple is that we gun owners and "packers" have this tendency to hide the fact that we own guns and carry like it was a dirty thing ... hell, some of you guys would have gun magazines delivered in plain brown wrappers.


I own guns, I carry guns and I'm proud of it. The more we "hide in the shadows" the more gun ownership and CCW will be margianlized and the less we advance the cause of RKBA.
 
Let me be the first to say...big mistake.

I don't want to sound critical, but in my opinion you should never under any circumstances reveal to someone that you are carrying.
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What are some of the reasons that one should keep it secret? Just curious.
 
I like people to know

My thing (If you haven't noticed yet) is that I love to teach people to shoot. To this end I like to talk to people about guns and shooting when possible to see if there is an interest/desire. I feel no shame doing so. The only reason I would not let someone know is if I thought they were a thug <Sarcasm> because I talk to those people all the time </Sarcasm> who might want to come to my house and take it. The same reason I do not tell thugs about my wife's jewelery.

Otherwise shooting is no different than golf or tennis as a safe and healthy sport. But I think I am getting away from the CCW point of this.
 
I'm with Zundfolge here. We canNOT hide in the shadows. Those outside the gun culture should be exposed to "normal" folk just like them who just happen to carry firearms for legitimate defensive reasons.
Being armed doesn’t mean you’re safe.
Click to expand...
So true, but attempting to help another person feel more secure in a sketchy situation until everyone's out of the situation is not a bad thing. Comes the time, maybe only now and then, that one does let someone else know one is armed. And, as pointed out, the movement is always in dire need of new converts, so some negative situations could end up being used for constructive recruitment purposes.
 
High Plains,

Here's a couple:

1) Intentional failure to conceal. At least in Texas the OP would have committed a Class A Misdemeanor when he lifted his shirt and showed his carry gun. A Class A Misdemeanor comes with a fine not to exceed $4000, confinement in jail not to exceed one year or both a fine and jail time. A Class A Misdemeanor will also cause your CHL to be revoked and you would be unable to get your CHL back for 7 years. Concealed means concealed.

That one is fact. The rest are my opinion.

2) Everyone who knows that you carry is a threat to you. How? Say you're sitting in a barber shop getting your hair cut. Just for kicks, let's say everyone in the shop knows you carry. Now, let's say a man walks through the door with a revolver and demands money. Everyone is going to look at you to defend them. Someone might even be dumb enough to say, "You've got a gun. Do something!" Who do you think the first person to get shot is going to be?

3) Most people talk. Everyone who knows you're carrying a gun will likely tell someone else. Even though it's perfectly legal, I personally do not like everyone knowing that I carry.

4) Say the realtor gets mad for some reason so she calls the cops and says "He pulled a gun on me." The cops pull you over, guns drawn, drag you out of the car, pat you down and find gun. Of course you're going to deny pulling the gun on her, but then so would every other criminal the cop deals with on a daily basis.

Those are just a few and only one of them could be considered as fact. There are only five people who know I carry. Among those five only one knows WHEN I'm carrying and where on my body it is concealed (my wife). Personally, I like it that way.

Granted, there is nothing wrong with carrying a handgun. However, I see absolutely no benefit in telling people I carry and even less benefit in actually SHOWING them.

That's just me though. :)

That being said, I TALK to people about guns all the time. At work, at church, at someone's house...wherever. I will freely disclose that I like guns and that I like to shoot guns and that I own guns. I even have a G17 as my wallpaper at work. I invite people to go shoot with me when I think someone might be interested and I do what I can to ease the minds of folks who I sense are afraid of guns. What I don't do is tell my friend while I'm sitting on his couch, "Oh...since we're talking about guns...I'm carrying right now!!" I see nothing good that could come from disclosing that you are carrying.
 
Well the realtor said "I do not feel comfortable here, I do not feel safe." My wife who know I carry said she was not concerned, but did move a little closer to me :). The realtor again stated that she did not feel safe. I said there was nothing to worry about, and that I was armed and lifted my shirt a little.
Click to expand...

Why did the realtor feel unsafe? Was it because you were moving through a potentially hostile environment (possibly in the house with criminal trespassers who have god only knows what motives)? So, the realtor is (justifiably) nervous about the situation and instead of removing yourself, wife and realtor from the premises, you just boldly continue the showing with a, "Drug crazed squatters? No problem...I have a HANDGUN!"

So, as an instructor, you want to teach the realtor that as long as you are wearing a gun, you're in no danger?

I like teaching people to shoot too, but that sounds like bad judgment and bad training to me.

If you're in an unsafe environment, there is plenty to worry about...like getting out and moving to a safe place.

Guns are not some kind of magical talisman against evil. Isnt' that lesson #1 that you teach to new students of defensive shooting? It should be. Guns only make you safer when you have the sense and training to use them as part of a whole strategy for personal defense (step one of which is always to extricate yourself and wife/realtor from potentially dangerous places before anything bad happens).
 
I personally do not believe you should tell anyone when/if you are carrying. It is against the law to not keep your handgun concealed, but it's not like you were wearing it on your hip or anything. Some of the other scenarios laid out by Braden seem a little paranoid to me (but then again, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you).

Over time, several of my friends have found out I have a CHL. But they never know if I'm actually carrying or not. I'm not ashamed of my CHL, and I will take people shooting any chance I get. But my idea of promoting self defense and educating people on firearms is not to flash my piece.

Letting people know you carry a gun, to me, is like letting people know you have a black belt: nothing good usually come of it. Unless I have to use it or accidental disclosure, no one but my wife will ever know I'm carrying.

Just my 2 centavos
 
I'm not sure I would have displayed my gun to the realtor, but I don't think it was as big a mistake as others here do.

Mrs. Azlib is a realtor. She's a Type A personality and knows that she can lose her temper--therefore she's (wisely, IMO) chosen thus far not to carry. However, the recent serial killings in the Phoenix area has had her begin to reconsider. She doesn't carry anything behond her pepper spray yet--but she is thinking about a CCW.

The realtor's job carrys with it some risks illustrated in the behavior your realtor displayed. You often find yourself walking into an empty house accompanied by a complete stranger. They hold open houses where they're inviting strangers in. You don't know if the buyer isn't some creep and his wife looking for their next rape-n-snuff. Sometimes, when the home being sold is a rental, the renters aren't wild about having to move. Anything could, and has, happened.

Had I been in your shoes, I would have noted your realtor's unease and turned around and left. The realtor can call the seller's realtor and ask about the "shrine". (The seller's realtor should have known that these sorts of things don't help sell a house, and had it removed.) Later, if you still feel the need to discuss your CCW with your realtor, you can do it. But the moment when the hair is rising on the back of her neck is not the moment I would choose to reveal my CCW status.
 
Dunno about VA, but in some states what you did could be construed as "brandishing."

In such states, brandishing is grounds for revocation of one's CCL.
 
Dunno about VA, but in some states what you did could be construed as "brandishing."
Click to expand...

Glad I don't live in one of those stupid states :p

But P&R does bring up a good point ... one should know all the ins and outs of their states CCW laws before doing anything like that.
 
For an act of showing a gun to be considered "brandishing", doesn't the intent matter? In other words, isn't it brandishing if the intent is to intimidate, or warn? Is it still brandishing if the intent is to comfort (regardless if you feel it was ok for him to do that, that was the intent.).

By the way, my wife is a realtor and she carries. I'm personally very glad of that. She's a great shot as well. If feel sorry for anyone that she'd be shooting at!
 
Brandishing

Brandishing! Yes...That's the word. All it would take is a call-in report from the realty company stating that their agent was greatly affrighted by the display of the pistol, and you may be kissin' your CCW permit bye-bye.

You have a lawful permit to conceal it, and most jurisdictions require that it remains concealed.
 
1911Tuner said:
You have a lawful permit to conceal it, and most jurisdictions require that it remains concealed.
Click to expand...

Isn't VA an open carry state though? Don't they even require open carry in restraunts that serve alcohol?
 
Here's a post from the Sigforum about a guy who was licensed to carry. I don't know the details other than that a convicted felon accused the CCL holder of an illegal action with a firearm.

Apparantly, the felon somehow knew/saw the CCW and immediately reported it to the police. The CCL holder lost his license and gun. (Maybe guns.)

Anyway, it behooves all holders of CCLs and carriers of handguns to keep the fact absolutely hidden unless absolutely necessary.

The threads:

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/830601935/m/618105056

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/230601935/m/661103056?r=113103056#113103056
 
Why did the realtor feel unsafe? Was it because you were moving through a potentially hostile environment (possibly in the house with criminal trespassers who have god only knows what motives)? So, the realtor is (justifiably) nervous about the situation and instead of removing yourself, wife and realtor from the premises, you just boldly continue the showing with a, "Drug crazed squatters? No problem...I have a HANDGUN!"
Click to expand...

Not exactly as it occurred... We did leave immiedatley after finding the "shrine" which was the major cause of uncomfort. I did not say that it was a magic talisman, or a solution to any problem, or even remove it from the holster. The only thing that happened was that she felt a little more comfortable as we exited. Is that really such a bad thing? I knew she was not the type to have a viceral anti-gun reaction, from our previous conversations.
 
I know 4 female realtors here in Florida. Without exception all are armed.
Would you go with a guy you've never met before alone to a deserted house?

AFS
 
Sigh.

I see this a lot, and it strikes a nerve.

[takes moderator hat off for this one]

People, listen up.

The mere exposure to view of your carry piece being considered "brandishing" is a TEXAS thing.

Most of us ARE NOT BURDENED WITH THAT NONSENSE.

In most jurisdictions, BRANDISHING means EXACTLY THAT: Waving gun around, or otherwise using a gun to threaten or intimidate.

Frankly, Texas is NOT the most user friendly model of a shall issue, concealed carry state.

Y'all have this absurd "brandishing" issue, 30.06 signs to deal with, your permit's expensive, your off limit list is as long as my arm, you have no open carry, your prosecutors argue about what "traveling" means, and you've got one of the LOWEST overall permit rates, coming in @ 1.62% of your adult population.

So....where I'm going with this is to ask my fellow compatriots from Texas to try to restrain themselves, and try to remember that the Texas is NOT the whole world. (I know how tough that is...some of my best friends come from Texas, and have a hard time believing there's any value in being anywhere else)


Now, as to the subject at hand:

I don't _automatically_ count revelation as a mistake. It's something you must be VERY judicious with, and not casual or thoughtless by any means, but that doesn't mean that it's always bad, every time.

Using it to reasure someone you're reasonably certain won't panic at the sight of a g-g-g-g-ggun! as to their safety can be a good thing.


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Edited to add:

Pinned&Recessed:

The sigforum member you're talking about was accosted by a knife wielding thug, and placed his hand on his pistol without drawing it. The thug retreated, and so he chose to go about his business without filing a police report.

BIG MISTAKE.

The thug filed the report, naming him as the perpetrator.

That whole story is more about corrupt, agenda driven PHL politics than anything else.
 
Concealed means concealed. Only show the weapon once you've come to the conclusion you need to use it...


JMO

C
 
A female realtor was recently murdered in a "Model Home" in the DFW area--stabbed multiple times. :uhoh: If I were a realtor I would consider getting my CHL.

That said, I think I would have passed on revealing my CHL status--if there is a "shrine", there may be "worshippers" in the shadows.

Exit, stage left.

YMMV.
 
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