Looking for a reliable SHTF rifle, have no clue what to look for
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JeepDriver
Member
JLD PTR-91
I have the 91K and love it!
The factory HK mags are avaliable for $5-7 each and the Mil Surp ammo is about $220 delivered per 1000rds. Accuracy is good and it is reliable.
I have the 91K and love it!
The factory HK mags are avaliable for $5-7 each and the Mil Surp ammo is about $220 delivered per 1000rds. Accuracy is good and it is reliable.
No_Brakes23
Member
I think you are right. Yugoslavia couldn't get the Russian chromium to line the barrels, so they made the barrels heavier.
Joe Mamma
Member
Get an AK. Even the cheap ones work fine.
Joe Mamma
Joe Mamma
Mannlicher
Member
I could not decide myself what to get. I wound up with Ruger Mini14s, SKS, Bulgarian and Czech AK47s, M1A and SOCOM, a number of AR15s, Colt, Bushmaster and Armalite, two nice M1 Carbines, a decent Garand and a couple of milsurp bolt guns.
Still can't decide which I like best.
Still can't decide which I like best.
Technosavant
Member
I would also say that instead of the Mini 30, the SKS or AK would be a far better choice; accuracy is at least as good, the price is much lower, and they'll take more abuse. Although an AR is more accurate, ammo costs are higher and they need more attention. An FAL is a good choice, but the ammo costs are yet again much higher, as is the rifle itself.
Personally, I went with an SKS. My budget won't allow a VEPR, but maybe I can get one eventually.
Personally, I went with an SKS. My budget won't allow a VEPR, but maybe I can get one eventually.
beerslurpy
member
One thing that I think is neglected is that I dont think any rifle is going to be tack drivingly accurate once it gets hot. Quickly put a hundred rounds through any gun and you are going to be going for torso shots at 100 yards.
But realistically speaking, you are in trouble if you have that many enemies to engage all by yourself.
Another vote here for the Arsenal, VEPR and Krebs guns. They are reasonably priced (IMO), reasonably accurate and incredibly reliable. I am obviously biased towards the AK but I dont think anyone would disagree with that appraisal. 300 meter range combined with a meaty projectile, mild recoil and a tolerance for mud and debris make for a winning play in my book. With nice optics, mags and enough ammo for WW3, you should get away for about 800-900 bucks.
I am kind of partial to the meaty round the FAL/G3/CETME throws, but you are really gonna pay if you want a good one. This is the only gun I think really beats the AK hands down in every area but cost. The 308 is just such a monster. Still, you arent likely to be reaching out beyond 400 yards unless you have a lot of time to plan your shots, judge wind, etc. Not really in the realm of self defense or even property defense anymore.
Any of the Saigas are good due to low price, good reliability and interesting calibers they are available in. 308 + kalshnikov = win.
The Keltec SU-16 is nice. Very accurate, seemed reliable, takes m16 mags.
I would avoid the:
-cheap AKs like converted WASRs that tend to have trigger slap and dubious accuracy
-century arms unless it is a known good gun (they sometimes make good ones by accident)
-hesse anything
-the cheap ARs.
-ruger mini-14/30 due to lack of decent high cap magazines and so-so accuracy
-high cap converted SKS due to lack of decent magazines. For the price of ricing out an SKS to make it into an AK-alike, you could have bought a saiga
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But realistically speaking, you are in trouble if you have that many enemies to engage all by yourself.
Another vote here for the Arsenal, VEPR and Krebs guns. They are reasonably priced (IMO), reasonably accurate and incredibly reliable. I am obviously biased towards the AK but I dont think anyone would disagree with that appraisal. 300 meter range combined with a meaty projectile, mild recoil and a tolerance for mud and debris make for a winning play in my book. With nice optics, mags and enough ammo for WW3, you should get away for about 800-900 bucks.
I am kind of partial to the meaty round the FAL/G3/CETME throws, but you are really gonna pay if you want a good one. This is the only gun I think really beats the AK hands down in every area but cost. The 308 is just such a monster. Still, you arent likely to be reaching out beyond 400 yards unless you have a lot of time to plan your shots, judge wind, etc. Not really in the realm of self defense or even property defense anymore.
Any of the Saigas are good due to low price, good reliability and interesting calibers they are available in. 308 + kalshnikov = win.
The Keltec SU-16 is nice. Very accurate, seemed reliable, takes m16 mags.
I would avoid the:
-cheap AKs like converted WASRs that tend to have trigger slap and dubious accuracy
-century arms unless it is a known good gun (they sometimes make good ones by accident)
-hesse anything
-the cheap ARs.
-ruger mini-14/30 due to lack of decent high cap magazines and so-so accuracy
-high cap converted SKS due to lack of decent magazines. For the price of ricing out an SKS to make it into an AK-alike, you could have bought a saiga
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The Mini-30 is fine, but good hi-cap mags are rare. Promag is supposed to be making some soon tho. My 30 shoots Barnaul into 1.5 inch groups at 50 yards, have not tried the Portuguese I just got. About the Mini not holding up to extended firing well, that's a load of crap. You have to send Mini's back to Ruger for firing pins, bolts and I forget what else. Unless you have spare parts for any gun, it's not SHTF material.
The AK will take more abuse than the Mini and generally is a better choice as it has plenty of hi-caps for it. If getting an AK I would get a AK- USA AK103 or similar high quality type stamped receiver type. The milled receiver AKs are about a pound heavier, but high quality.
I had a SKS and it had gas piston probs, but got em fixed, this was the chopped down paratroop type. The stripper clip thing didn't work really well for me and I sold it, YMMV.
The AK will take more abuse than the Mini and generally is a better choice as it has plenty of hi-caps for it. If getting an AK I would get a AK- USA AK103 or similar high quality type stamped receiver type. The milled receiver AKs are about a pound heavier, but high quality.
I had a SKS and it had gas piston probs, but got em fixed, this was the chopped down paratroop type. The stripper clip thing didn't work really well for me and I sold it, YMMV.
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chopinbloc
Member
anything you can afford, that you will learn to shoot well and that you will actually buy ten magazines (or fifty clips) and keep two thousand rounds of ammo on hand at all times for.
i recommend an autoloader with detachable magazine from a reputable manufacturer chambered in a commonly available intermediate cartridge. i can't think of any really bad choices but some have significant disadvantages. a full size battle rifle in any major rifle cartridge will definitely reach out and has serious power but it is also a serious liability in weight. the ruger mini-14 or -30 are good options but mags can be hit or miss. best option is probably an ar or ak type or at least a self loader that accepts their mags. my primary shtf rifle is an ar. reasons are accuracy; commonly available ammo (despite having about 5,000 rounds on hand), magazines and parts; personaly familiarity; light ammo means i can carry ALOT; the weapon itself is light (i don't have alot of ninja stuff hanging off my primary shtf rifle); corrosion resistance. there are probably other reasons and there are definitely good reasons to pick other rifles but the important thing is your capability with the weapon and your willingness to keep a large supply of ammo on hand. remember, the media's idea of alot of ammo is about three boxes. our idea is about three cases; and that's really just an adequate amount, not "alot."
i recommend an autoloader with detachable magazine from a reputable manufacturer chambered in a commonly available intermediate cartridge. i can't think of any really bad choices but some have significant disadvantages. a full size battle rifle in any major rifle cartridge will definitely reach out and has serious power but it is also a serious liability in weight. the ruger mini-14 or -30 are good options but mags can be hit or miss. best option is probably an ar or ak type or at least a self loader that accepts their mags. my primary shtf rifle is an ar. reasons are accuracy; commonly available ammo (despite having about 5,000 rounds on hand), magazines and parts; personaly familiarity; light ammo means i can carry ALOT; the weapon itself is light (i don't have alot of ninja stuff hanging off my primary shtf rifle); corrosion resistance. there are probably other reasons and there are definitely good reasons to pick other rifles but the important thing is your capability with the weapon and your willingness to keep a large supply of ammo on hand. remember, the media's idea of alot of ammo is about three boxes. our idea is about three cases; and that's really just an adequate amount, not "alot."
GreatWhiteShark
Member
looking for a reliable shtf rifle...
As a new member my opinion might be worth squat.... anyhow, SHTF to me means, everything has gone haywire. Food supply has depleted, along has water.IMHO, an AK-47 is an awesome weapon, reliable, cheap, robust, and enough to tackle most situations. Of course opinions vary, but ive shot other weapons (namely the AR-15 platform and it seems more selective about the ammo and conditions the than the AK. For what its worth....
As a new member my opinion might be worth squat.... anyhow, SHTF to me means, everything has gone haywire. Food supply has depleted, along has water.IMHO, an AK-47 is an awesome weapon, reliable, cheap, robust, and enough to tackle most situations. Of course opinions vary, but ive shot other weapons (namely the AR-15 platform and it seems more selective about the ammo and conditions the than the AK. For what its worth....
MADDOG
Member
I have one of those Mini-30's. A pre-ban. It works everytime all the time. I have some extra parts and several ammo cans full of ammo. The 10 round mags work, the 5 rounders work also. I found 2 20rd, and a mag that holds 33rds that works everytime. Maybe I am just lucky. Works for me. Which is better a 5rd SA rifle compared to a bolt action with the same capacity?
joab
Member
As I have said before, my SHTF scenario is a predictable natural catastrophe that causes a temporary societal dysfunction and not invasion by foreign enemies.
In that case my SHTF rifle would be a shotgun with a 1911 back up for defensive purposes.
High cap assault rifles are offensive weapons designed for those that would meet with and destroy enemy personnel and material.
I'll leave that to the younger guys
In that case my SHTF rifle would be a shotgun with a 1911 back up for defensive purposes.
High cap assault rifles are offensive weapons designed for those that would meet with and destroy enemy personnel and material.
I'll leave that to the younger guys
phantomak47
Member
I have put 5k rounds through my Sar 1, didnt clean it for a month or two and it has never jammed or misfired in any way. Some have trigger slap , but that can be easily fixed.
Tons of mags, 80 bucks for 1,000 rounds......how can you go wrong...
Tons of mags, 80 bucks for 1,000 rounds......how can you go wrong...
Domino
Member
Get an SKS or a WASR-10 and a couple of cases of ammunition. Both weapons were designed for SHTF in mind and should give you countless years of good service.
Me and my father have over 6 SKS rifles (all excellent weapons) and I have recently picked up a WASR-10 that has proved to be a great carbine and just as accurate as any SKS. Those two guns are some of the best and most practical autoloaders available.
Me and my father have over 6 SKS rifles (all excellent weapons) and I have recently picked up a WASR-10 that has proved to be a great carbine and just as accurate as any SKS. Those two guns are some of the best and most practical autoloaders available.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
I agree with your assessment of what a likely SHTF scenario would look like (natural disaster). However, I strongly disagree with the idea that a civilian small-caliber autoloader with full-cap magazines is an "offensive weapon designed for those that would meet with and destroy enemy personnel and material." To me, that's straight out of Sarah Brady's (bogus) script. Show me any military in the world that uses a NON-automatic Kalashnikov variant in 7.62x39. I can name a few that use 12-gauge shotguns, though...and considering that the #1 long gun used in homicides is the 12-gauge pump (taking BATFE trace data as proxy for that variable), it looks like those can be used offensively as well as anything else.
My go-to long gun in any scenario would be my SAR-1, and it would be used just as defensively as your shotgun.
Rob62
Member
I recommend one of the various AR15 clones out there.
If you shop around you should be able to find a used one in good condition with a few mags and a case of Russian ammo for $900 or less.
Rob
If you shop around you should be able to find a used one in good condition with a few mags and a case of Russian ammo for $900 or less.
Rob
wizard of oz
Member
Here it would be a lever action 30-30 or a bolt action milsurp of some kind. But only after you have a 12g shotgun as anyone has seen the aussie movie "mad max" will realize.
Lonestar.45
Member
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SKS all the way. I shot my Yugo again yesterday, and am constantly amazed at the accuracy and reliability. Many say they are only "minute of man" guns. Maybe some are, but mine seems pretty good to me. I can put 5 rd groups into a 1 1/2 circle at 75 yds from the bench. I've put maybe 600 rds through it so far, and never a hiccup, not once. $800 for strictly SHTF and plinking?
Excellent Yugo - $150
GI 1911 from SA - $450
500 rds of 7.62x39 - $50
Stripper clips - $30
400 rds .45 - $80
3 Chip Mccormick 1911 mags - $40
Look on a looter's face when he finally breaks in your door and sees you standing there with a Yugo, bayonet extended = PRICELESS.
Excellent Yugo - $150
GI 1911 from SA - $450
500 rds of 7.62x39 - $50
Stripper clips - $30
400 rds .45 - $80
3 Chip Mccormick 1911 mags - $40
Look on a looter's face when he finally breaks in your door and sees you standing there with a Yugo, bayonet extended = PRICELESS.
mustanger98
Member
As the owner/shooter of M1 Garand, K98k Mauser, and Winchester .30-30, I can happily recommend either of the three. Hey, 8mm Mauser's real cheap bulk. While I'm not a AK/SKS fan/owner, I've heard they're built like a tank too. I think it's not what's extremely tacticool to the crowd so much as it is what are you comfortable with.
Good accuracy inside 300 meters.
Extremely reliable design.
Mass quantities of cheap reliable ammo. (7.62x39)
END QUOTE
If you said good accuracy inside 30 meters I would agree. 300 yards is a joke with an AK. I have owned 4 different Ak's and none were accurate. Give me a quality AR15 any day of the week.
Pat
Extremely reliable design.
Mass quantities of cheap reliable ammo. (7.62x39)
END QUOTE
If you said good accuracy inside 30 meters I would agree. 300 yards is a joke with an AK. I have owned 4 different Ak's and none were accurate. Give me a quality AR15 any day of the week.
Pat
No_Brakes23
Member
Then you owned the wrong AKs.
My father and I have both shot sub-MOA groups with his Saiga. At 300 yards, low kneeling, firing a magazine of 30 rounds, firing as quickly as I regain sight picture, I can keep at least 25 rounds in the black. Slow fire, my dad keeps his groups in the 10 ring at 200 and 300 yards.
This is not a Krebs Saiga, it is just a formerly Cali-legal Saiga Sporter in 7.62x39mm. We are not shooting match ammo, just regular old Wolf. My father and I are not Carlos Hathcock by any means. The only thing he changed was adding a sling and a recoil pad on the end. (The lengthened LOP from the recoil pad helps a whole lot.)
I have at least 3 times as many rounds through the M16A2 as through my dad's Saiga, as well as formal training with the M16A2, (Compared to none with the Saiga.) I can not shoot the AR platform nearly as well, quickly, as I can the Saiga. Now at 500 yards prone, The AR/M16 will probably start to embarrass the AK, but under 300, a good AK shines.
I am not trash talking on the AR, it is a fine weapon, but if you think the AK is a joke at 300, you are shooting the wrong AKs.
My father and I have both shot sub-MOA groups with his Saiga.
I can not shoot the AR platform nearly as well, quickly,
END QUOTE
Not to be a jerk but I would have to see this to believe it. The AK is known to be an inaccurate weapon. Your luckly to get 3 moa from the best ones. I am sorry but I don't believe he is getting sub moa groups with is Saige. I mean no disrespect but thats un-believeable for this weapon system.
Also the Ak has more recoil than the AR15 and crappy sights so if your able to hit faster with the AK something is amis. There is a reason why AK's are almost unseen in 3 gun matches and in Highpower matches.
Pat
I can not shoot the AR platform nearly as well, quickly,
END QUOTE
Not to be a jerk but I would have to see this to believe it. The AK is known to be an inaccurate weapon. Your luckly to get 3 moa from the best ones. I am sorry but I don't believe he is getting sub moa groups with is Saige. I mean no disrespect but thats un-believeable for this weapon system.
Also the Ak has more recoil than the AR15 and crappy sights so if your able to hit faster with the AK something is amis. There is a reason why AK's are almost unseen in 3 gun matches and in Highpower matches.
Pat
No_Brakes23
Member
Fair enough, I can understand you being skeptical. Perhaps we have a different understanding of MOA.
Here is mine. MOA, minute of angle. The size of a 3-5 shot group when measured from the center of the farthest 2 holes in the group at 100 yards. If the group is 1" at 100 yards, then it is 1MOA. Any group less than that is sub-MOA.
A "Sub-MOA" weapon, can routinely accomplish this.
Did I miss anything in my definition?
I stated that we have both fired such groups, but I did not state it is a "Sub-MOA Weapon."
Most accounts I have read of high end AKs state 3MOA, (9" at 300 yards) is a reasonable expectation. 9" at 300 yards will hit a man in the chest. That is still far from inaccurate. And my expierence with the M16A2 leads me to believe that any accuracy advantage it holds over the AK under 300 vanishes if it is not slow fire. (I.e. under stress or shooting rapidly.)
Here is mine. MOA, minute of angle. The size of a 3-5 shot group when measured from the center of the farthest 2 holes in the group at 100 yards. If the group is 1" at 100 yards, then it is 1MOA. Any group less than that is sub-MOA.
A "Sub-MOA" weapon, can routinely accomplish this.
Did I miss anything in my definition?
I stated that we have both fired such groups, but I did not state it is a "Sub-MOA Weapon."
Most accounts I have read of high end AKs state 3MOA, (9" at 300 yards) is a reasonable expectation. 9" at 300 yards will hit a man in the chest. That is still far from inaccurate. And my expierence with the M16A2 leads me to believe that any accuracy advantage it holds over the AK under 300 vanishes if it is not slow fire. (I.e. under stress or shooting rapidly.)
AK sights vary, and the Saiga's sights are far easier for me to acheive sight piture quickly than the AR. I like the rear aperture on the AR, but the front Crown thingy is just goofy. I qualified expert with the M16A2, but I hate the front sight. Give me a ring over those vaque flowery things on the AR any day. Also, I see alot scopes and reflex sights for 3 gun use which makes that a moot point.
Crosshair
Member
joab
If you get an SKS don't get the cumbersome and overly long barreled Yugo.
I'd go with a "paratrooper" SKS or an AK
I find that the heavy barrel Yugo makes follow up shots quicker and the felt recoil is much less. The barrel is alos much stiffer. If you are worried about length, get a pistol.
If you get an SKS don't get the cumbersome and overly long barreled Yugo.
I'd go with a "paratrooper" SKS or an AK
I find that the heavy barrel Yugo makes follow up shots quicker and the felt recoil is much less. The barrel is alos much stiffer. If you are worried about length, get a pistol.
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