Looters in New Orleans
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http://today.reuters.com/investing/..._N01575002_RTRIDST_0_WEATHER-KATRINA-KILL.XML
BATON ROUGE, La., Sept 1 (Reuters) - Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco warned rioters and looters in New Orleans on Thursday that National Guard troops are under her orders to "shoot and kill" to end the rampant violence in the city in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.
Announcing the arrival of 300 Arkansas National Guard troops in New Orleans fresh from service in Iraq, Blanco said, "these troops are battle-tested. They have M-16s and are locked and loaded."
"These troops know how to shoot and kill and I expect they will," she said.
U.S. Rep. Charlie Melancon, a Democrat, said as many as 100 people in his district southeast of New Orleans have died as a by-product of the violence that has gripped the city after Katrina slammed into the region on Monday, causing massive flooding.
Those who died, Melancon said, had been waiting at a warehouse pier along the Mississippi River in Chalmette, Louisiana, to be picked up for evacuation. They had received little food and no water since Monday or Tuesday.
"They were afraid they would have to go through New Orleans (to deliver the supplies)," Melancon said.
Melancon said some of those waiting for pickup died of dehydration in the 90-degree heat that has afflicted the region since Tuesday.
Despair is also affecting those in New Orleans charged with protecting the city, said State Police Superintendent Col. H.L. Whitehorn.
Some New Orleans police officers have resigned rather than face the violence in the city.
"It's my understanding those who have resigned said they have lost everything and it's not worth being shot at and losing their lives," Whitehorn said.
Whitehorn said he did not know the specific number of police officers who have quit their jobs.
BATON ROUGE, La., Sept 1 (Reuters) - Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco warned rioters and looters in New Orleans on Thursday that National Guard troops are under her orders to "shoot and kill" to end the rampant violence in the city in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.
Announcing the arrival of 300 Arkansas National Guard troops in New Orleans fresh from service in Iraq, Blanco said, "these troops are battle-tested. They have M-16s and are locked and loaded."
"These troops know how to shoot and kill and I expect they will," she said.
U.S. Rep. Charlie Melancon, a Democrat, said as many as 100 people in his district southeast of New Orleans have died as a by-product of the violence that has gripped the city after Katrina slammed into the region on Monday, causing massive flooding.
Those who died, Melancon said, had been waiting at a warehouse pier along the Mississippi River in Chalmette, Louisiana, to be picked up for evacuation. They had received little food and no water since Monday or Tuesday.
"They were afraid they would have to go through New Orleans (to deliver the supplies)," Melancon said.
Melancon said some of those waiting for pickup died of dehydration in the 90-degree heat that has afflicted the region since Tuesday.
Despair is also affecting those in New Orleans charged with protecting the city, said State Police Superintendent Col. H.L. Whitehorn.
Some New Orleans police officers have resigned rather than face the violence in the city.
"It's my understanding those who have resigned said they have lost everything and it's not worth being shot at and losing their lives," Whitehorn said.
Whitehorn said he did not know the specific number of police officers who have quit their jobs.
Please help those in need. The Red Cross has an excellent track record in getting help to those who need it.
Thank You.
http://www.redcross.org/
Thank You.
http://www.redcross.org/
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New Orleans is not only a tragedy for Louisiana but also for this nation. 50 years ago plus we'd probably band together to help one another as a nation or people in crisis. Today we loot instead. It shows that we're not at all better than the average Somalian or Rwandan. 
sumpnz
Member
Sorry but I disagree. Read some accounts from the 1900 Galvaston disaster. Not much different. Sad to say, but but people really aren't much better or worse than they've ever been.
toivo
Member
I don't know if relief workers actually stayed out because of the violence, but if so, that just means that the cart is before the horse. The security aspect has to be handled first. Start with the National Guard, and then the Red Cross goes in. Sounds like a problem with the overall coordination.
AStone
Member
what we have here...
i gotta agree with toivo.
watching the "news" tonight - 1/2 hour of CBS, hour of NBC, reading for hours about this on the I'net today - i gotta say:
1) <in the strong, Miss'ippi dialect of the warden in Cool Hand Luke's prison farm> "What we have he'ah, is a fail'uah to com'mun'icate!"
2) secure first, then help those who need it. otherwise, those who need help will probably double or quadruple in the long run.
no truth implied; just a hypothesis.
i gotta agree with toivo.
watching the "news" tonight - 1/2 hour of CBS, hour of NBC, reading for hours about this on the I'net today - i gotta say:
1) <in the strong, Miss'ippi dialect of the warden in Cool Hand Luke's prison farm> "What we have he'ah, is a fail'uah to com'mun'icate!"
2) secure first, then help those who need it. otherwise, those who need help will probably double or quadruple in the long run.
no truth implied; just a hypothesis.
Borachon
Member
Oh please.
Like some hack actor from Hollywood has a hope in Hell of sounding anything like a Southerner, let alone a Mississippian. His voice sounds like two cats scratching a blackboard to me.
On the topic of looting. Grow up. The water is out. Your clothes were destroyed at home. No food has come to the city for 5 days now. What food was in their houses is under 8' of water. Tired, hungry, and dying of thrist.
Really...you fellows have just got no clue. Of course, I'm beginning to think that our crisis may not be just a local event. So you guys may have troubles of your own soon.
Or...in my best Mississippian accent...."When troubles come, they come not single spies but in battlions."
AStone
Member
Hmmm. Speaking only for myself, i grew up in Me'omphis; my dad was from Nashville, and mom was from Miss'ippi.
Therefore, i speak 'southin' fluently, even if i don't always represent it correctly in writing.
So, if you be talkin' in my direction, sir, i'll thank you to keep your harsh words to yourself.
As for my point re security (not speaking for the other fellow), i'm willing to share what i got as long as others aren't shooting in my direction to get it, or slashing knives in the direction of my throat.
As far as that sort of trouble coming my way soon, yeah. We agree there.
Excellent point, Mr. Glenn Bartley on page 1 of thread
The police, National Guard and others should have begun rounding up all that was salvageable. These business owners have insurance...that’s why they skateboarded out of town leaving it to be damaged, ravaged, and pillaged. It is rightful and just that the authorities seize it for the good of saving and serving society.
The looting of clothing, jewelry...ridiculous at best. The food looting, while understandable, is just too selfish. That they go in and remove it, okay, but take it to a common collection point. Lest I be too harsh on the grandmother who took food for her grandchildren, because only God can judge us, at least she took it for a noble cause. She would have been more noble has she taken it to a collection point, have her name noted as contributing and take (along with others) her justifiable share.
What I have not seen anywhere here yet, and of course perhaps I simply have missed it, this entire ordeal speaks frighteningly to the degree of our state and federal UNpreparedness for disasters and worse yet attacks.
Regardless of how badly anyone here thinks they can take issue with that statement and say they did what they could do, and attack me for being allegedly "bleeding heart liberal", I can direct you toward about 500,000 people from the south who would voice support to my opinions.
All that has been done is too little, too late. Make what excuses we will, it was too little too late, and it is painfully obvious that no-one had a viable contingency plan for catastrophic happenings. We had better collectively learn our lesson here, lest we caught off guard yet again, or God forbid, in some attack of even greater proportion and assure that our local, state and federal "leaders" actually lead, and have viable contingencies in place, and most of all, that they enact it timely.
The police, National Guard and others should have begun rounding up all that was salvageable. These business owners have insurance...that’s why they skateboarded out of town leaving it to be damaged, ravaged, and pillaged. It is rightful and just that the authorities seize it for the good of saving and serving society.
The looting of clothing, jewelry...ridiculous at best. The food looting, while understandable, is just too selfish. That they go in and remove it, okay, but take it to a common collection point. Lest I be too harsh on the grandmother who took food for her grandchildren, because only God can judge us, at least she took it for a noble cause. She would have been more noble has she taken it to a collection point, have her name noted as contributing and take (along with others) her justifiable share.
What I have not seen anywhere here yet, and of course perhaps I simply have missed it, this entire ordeal speaks frighteningly to the degree of our state and federal UNpreparedness for disasters and worse yet attacks.
Regardless of how badly anyone here thinks they can take issue with that statement and say they did what they could do, and attack me for being allegedly "bleeding heart liberal", I can direct you toward about 500,000 people from the south who would voice support to my opinions.
All that has been done is too little, too late. Make what excuses we will, it was too little too late, and it is painfully obvious that no-one had a viable contingency plan for catastrophic happenings. We had better collectively learn our lesson here, lest we caught off guard yet again, or God forbid, in some attack of even greater proportion and assure that our local, state and federal "leaders" actually lead, and have viable contingencies in place, and most of all, that they enact it timely.
Yes Doc... I agree that the lack of preparedeness is key here, with plenty enough blame for plenty of agencies and people. We gambled on this hurricane and lost. Rather than expect and prepare for the worst, rather than mobilize with the possibility that we would have to stand down in the face of a lesser disaster, we gambled that it wouldn't be so bad. Naive at best and now we know that this gamble was a foolish one.
Shame on local governments
Shame on state government
And shame on the feds
Oh, and don't tell me that people need to be more self reliant (though they do!) and that it isn't up to the government to assist/help/protect the people. That is exactly what the government is for.
As for the looting, no doubt in my mind it's a whole lot of shades of gray, from the most hideous examples of evil to the questionable actions of frightened folks taking what is there to get some basics.
Shame on local governments
Shame on state government
And shame on the feds
Oh, and don't tell me that people need to be more self reliant (though they do!) and that it isn't up to the government to assist/help/protect the people. That is exactly what the government is for.
As for the looting, no doubt in my mind it's a whole lot of shades of gray, from the most hideous examples of evil to the questionable actions of frightened folks taking what is there to get some basics.
Carl N. Brown
Member
media
The news media always jump on the worst behavior.
NOLA has seen the worst out of some people, but the
best and the plain human out of most of the folks
there. And the ones that did bad were bad people
before Katrina struck, they just had an excuse to '
come out from under their rocks.
The news media always jump on the worst behavior.
NOLA has seen the worst out of some people, but the
best and the plain human out of most of the folks
there. And the ones that did bad were bad people
before Katrina struck, they just had an excuse to '
come out from under their rocks.
JohnBT
Member
"this entire ordeal speaks frighteningly to the degree of our state and federal UNpreparedness for disasters"
It speaks more frighteningly to the degree of unpreparedness of a large part of the population. And they need to be prepared to take care of themselves for a week or two. Personally, I don't believe it will ever be possible for any organization to respond in a comprehensive manner in a day or two, or maybe three or four, to widespread a disaster involving loss of transportation systems, communication systems and utilities.
Now, maybe it would be possible to respond immediately if the disaster involved only one city, such as New Orleans, but not when the disaster is spread over 90,000 square miles. I suppose they could have concentrated everything on NO and ignored everything else, but that's not the way it works.
Even Berlin had a functional airport, working roads and utility service during the Airlift. It takes some structure to move vast quantities of people and goods.
John
It speaks more frighteningly to the degree of unpreparedness of a large part of the population. And they need to be prepared to take care of themselves for a week or two. Personally, I don't believe it will ever be possible for any organization to respond in a comprehensive manner in a day or two, or maybe three or four, to widespread a disaster involving loss of transportation systems, communication systems and utilities.
Now, maybe it would be possible to respond immediately if the disaster involved only one city, such as New Orleans, but not when the disaster is spread over 90,000 square miles. I suppose they could have concentrated everything on NO and ignored everything else, but that's not the way it works.
Even Berlin had a functional airport, working roads and utility service during the Airlift. It takes some structure to move vast quantities of people and goods.
John
Carl,
Yes that's true, the old saying "if it bleeds it leads:. But the problem is, you can't depend on good folks, you need to be ready to deal with the worst.
Like it or not, that's required. This way if you're lucky and are surrounded with good people great, you can help, but if the bad guys are there you're ready.
Yes that's true, the old saying "if it bleeds it leads:. But the problem is, you can't depend on good folks, you need to be ready to deal with the worst.
Like it or not, that's required. This way if you're lucky and are surrounded with good people great, you can help, but if the bad guys are there you're ready.
Cosmoline
Member
x2!
AStone
Member
Borachon
Member
They don't.
The crimes you have cited are Rape, Attempted murder or assault or mayhem, and the taking of hostages is kidnapping.
So we have rape, assault, and kidnapping. None of which seems to be related at all to looting...which is obviously a type of theft, not unlike shoplifting.
So far, our society hasn't said it is okay to shoot shoplifters. A lot of you fellows seem determined to make the argument that looter=criminal=armed threat.
I'm having the trouble of making that first logical leap and saying that looting for food is a criminal activity when the food in town has been destroyed and the waters off.
If someone shoots at, or kills, or rapes a woman, or several other things I could mention...then hang them from a lamppost as a warning to others not to do it again. It'll stop quick enough.
Just seems to me that a lot of you want to string up the little old lady who stole food off the shelf for her grandchildren...and I don't think that's right.
Zundfolge
Member
No, looters are just "shoplifters" on a normal day ... on a SHTF day they are the first step toward the raping/pillaging/hostage taking, so you lower your threshold for use of deadly force because that's all that will keep the criminal element in line in such a crisis situation.
If you where indeed correct about your assessment of the intention of folks here, there would be tons of threads about how CCW holders should be shooting shoplifters.
Its pretty easy to figure out who's just "looting for food" and who's just plain looting ... shoot the guys pushing the cartloads of TVs and such
No reason for looting for food or water people know that a hurricane is coming so you stock up. I know that my wife had a stock pile of food and water for about a month when she though we would have a problem with the year 2000. I always have a good supply of ammo.
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