Manual safeties on carry weapons: yes or no?

[weisse52]

Well, this discussion always has a religious flavor.

Yes, and this discussion is strictly a preference, one is not better or worse than the other.

I don't want or need a manual safety - it's an additional procedure that's only needed if the shooter can't keep his finger out of the guard.

I pulled this one only as a example and not a direct knock on this person

Bull, just because a person does not have the training or skill to perform a task does not mean that other people do not. If you practice it becomes a habit you will not forget.

If you believe that in a stressful situation you will not remember to flick off that saftey, how is it that in that same situation you will remember to keep your finger off the trigger. You keep it out because you train to do that, you flick off the saftey because you train to do so.

Oh, and this thing gets beat to death on a regular basis.....very boring and is not going to change one mind.

 

[Walkalong]

I like the manual thumb safety on 1911s. I am almost as comfortable with the XD with no such safety. Mostly a mind thing. Raised on 1911s.

The XD is almost no different than a DA revolver, and that is as safe as it gets. No pull of the trigger...no bang.

 

[bigfatdave]

I'm in the "no safety" camp, with the exception of light and/or single-action triggers on carry guns.
I don't want it. I don't need it. And I don't worry about someone else grabbing my carry gun - either they get an empty gun for their trouble, or they will have difficulty grabbing the rapidly reciprocating slide. Thus, I don't feel that a manual safety or a magazine interlock have any use on my personal carry pistols.

Now, I do sometimes take a moment to admire MrsBFD's XD and the grip safety it has in addition to the trigger safety - and next time I buy a CC pistol, it will likely be an XD for a number of reasons, one of those reasons is the dual passive safety devices, while my current CC (Walther PPS) only has one.
But in the end, nothing matters more than fit in the hand ... you can learn to operate with/without a safety lever, you can learn to utilize reduced capacity wisely, you can repair/change ammo/modify for better reliability, you can swap sights or learn the ones on the pistol ... but nothing will make an uncomfortable gun comfortable, and uncomfortable guns don't get taken to the range, don't get drilled with, and don't give the carrier that "warm fuzzy" feeling that that perfect grip does.

 

[SSN Vet]

one in the pipe with the manual thumb safety on....

swiping the safety off as part of my draw is a practiced motion....

wouldn't do it any other way

 

[Guns and more]

I had to answer.............maybe.
A double action with a long heavy trigger pull in a holster that covers the trigger. No.
A single action 1911 "cocked and locked" Yes.
A single action like my Sig 238? Defiantly.

 

[Eightball]

Single action autoloaders, I prefer to have safeties. Double action autos and revolvers, I like no safety.

This sums it up for me.

 

[foghornl]

How else ya gonna carry a 1911-A1 'cocked-n-locked'?

 

[easyg]

No safety for me, please. I've watched too many guys:
Draw, pump the trigger a couple of times,
realize the safety is on,
deactivate safety,
then finally fire.

And this is in a low stress, IDPA environment.

Yep, I've also seen this happen.

And not just "untrained" novices either.
I've seen guys who have trained and shot with great frequency for years still occasionally forget or miss swiping the safety off.

And when I was a soldier it was not that uncommon for guys to forget to disengage the safety on their rifle during live fire exercises.

No manual safety for me.

 

[Jbabbler]

I prefer DA/SA with hammer so a decocker/safety is a big bonus for these. If all other aspects of the gun are equal except for the manual safety as a feature, I'll take the safety. I like the option of engaging the safety but can always choose to leave it be.

 

[barneyrw]

<<"And when I was a soldier it was not that uncommon for guys to forget to disengage the safety on their rifle during live fire exercises.">>

That's in training exercises and not really pertinent to real combat. In real combat you carry the rifle on semi-auto or full-auto (yes I know, now it's a 3 round burst) depending upon imminent situation. When you come back off patrol you put it on safe and/or eject the round out of the chamber, depending upon the situation. That was my Marine Corps Vietnam experience anyway.

 

[.455_Hunter]

On true "double action" guns like a revolver or traditional semi autos (NAA Guardian, Makarov, Beretta 92), etc. that posses a long, heavy trigger pull, I don't think a safety is necessary.

The ONLY way I would carry one of the short trigger striker guns (Glock, M&P, Kahr) or a single action auto (1911) is with a positive safety.

 

[Girodin]

Honestly I do believe it ought to be a dispositive issue. If you are adequately trained and well practiced with your weapon a manual safety is not a hinderence. If you are not then the lack of a manual safety probably wont matter much either.

Proper gun handling, storage, retention, etc are necessary either way. To me it is honestly a non issue, at least the safety its self. I like the lighter single action trigger pulls of my 1911 and mustang over the pulls of say a kahr, glock, or LCP, although I most often carry the latter examples.

I didn't answer since I carry both and I honestly don't think it matter very much and much much less than issues that most often get ignored (like training).

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I prefer to come on target with the trigger finger indexed, thumbs on the safety, and simply close my hand to shoot. No time is lost, and the grip and action are natural and automatic.

 

[Claude Clay]

if there is a safety and it is engineered properly [like a 1911] than it makes no difference to me.
if it is poorly placed or constructed [like a bersa] and the gun can safely be carried without engaging it; than it makes no difference.
if the gun has no safety [like a 642] and can safely be carried like that; than again, no problem.
if the safety is poorly located or engineered and the gun requires it to be used, than i will not buy that gun

 

[Hawk]

No vote.

Depending on wardrobe, I'll be carrying a P239 or mutant 1911. One without, one with. I used to have a P7 in the rotation - I guess I like different manuals of arms.

Most of the practice is with the mutant 1911 so the manual safety is of no concern. Not that I doubt the various anecdotes of folks having issues with a manual safety, I just don't think I'll be able to generate any concern without it actually happening to me personally. I file anecdotes about issues with manual safties with anecdotes about accidental discharges with Glocks and similar - interesting but not terribly relevant.


Yet another contentious issue where I have no dog in the fight.

But I'll bump the thread...

 

[kimberdad]

no vote for me either. Single action cocked and locked, safety has to be on. My da/sa ruger p90 has no safety therefore no choice in the matter. I feel safe either way. It takes no longer to thumb the safety as you draw and aim the single action as it would take you to draw and aim the double action. It should all be done in smooth motion, thats what we practice. But then again, thats without duress!!

 

[ByAnyMeans]

Both of my ccw weapons have no manual safeties. I was never trained on a specific gun and decided since I was starting fresh I picked what worked best since it was my choice.

 

[-eaux-]

on-duty, on the hip: Colt 1911, carried condition 1. it takes about 2 draws for thumbing the safety down to become muscle memory.

off-duty, tucked away where it may: Ruger P-90, with the "safety/decocker" disengaged. first round is DA, the other 8 are SA.

BUG: a lil colt .380, 1911 platform, also condition 1.

 

[easyg]

I think I see a trend here....

If you removed all of the 1911 shooters from the equation, I doubt that there would be many fans of a manual safety remaining.

 

[possum]

no manual safety for me.

 

[glockman19]

Rule #1 keep your finger off the trigger.

My finger is my safety.

That's why I like Glock.

 

[mljdeckard]

easyg-

To that effect, it is worth clarifying. I don't like 'positive' safeties, which require you to flick the safety 'up', and then move again to firing position. (Beretta, S&W, etc.) with conventional frame-mounted safeties, one can push it 'down' into the natural position to fire. With my 1911, I not only push it off as I come up from the low ready, I rest my thumb on it while I fire. No reason not to.

 

[mljdeckard]

Another freakin' double-tap.

 

[KBintheSLC]

The only carry gun I could see needing a manual safety is a cocked and locked 1911 variant. Other than that, any double action auto/revolver with a safety will never be in my collection.

 

[David E]

I've never seen a "B" class or "Expert" and above forget to take off their safety. I have seen the "D" and "Novice" class shooters forget all kinds of things. Which is one reason they're shooting IPSC and/or IDPA in the first place: to improve their gun skills.

I have seen "trained" cops reholster a cocked Sig, as they forgot to decock it.

So "training," in and of itself, is subject to precise defintion and interpretation.