Martial arts that pair well with gun use?

[Blackfox893]

So, as a college student, I currently cannot carry a gun on campus, especially since I live on campus. As such, I want to learn some martial arts, but I would prefer to learn some that can be used if/when I begin carrying to improve my chances of retaining hold of my gun in the case of an encounter with a thug, not that Melbourne is an unsafe area, nor is the vacation resort I am currently at.

But can any self-defense/martial artist here advise me upon disciplines to look for?

 

[walking arsenal]

Check out Tang soo Do if you can find it. I studied it for a number of years and prefer it over Tae kwan Do for it's circular movements and reliance on body mechanics rather than shear muscle strength to produce power.

It is a classic martial art and is more refined. It focuses on learning a base set of movements so that you can use those well in a fight. It also tends to not cater to the macho MMA crowd or sport martial artists.

 

[JShirley]

After many years of training, and a lot of thought on the process, "anything that teaches you how to hit the ground without getting hurt".

I have fallen on rock while carrying 100 lbs of mortar ammunition, I have dove out of the way of a speeding truck, and I have taken numerous spills with no serious injury. "Self defense", if considered for what it should be, should include all actions to keep you safe. Whether you're ever in a violent confrontation or not, you WILL fall down during your life. Your first priority should be learning how to absorb that without damage. You can work up from there.

John

 

[Bobson]

Outstanding advice, JShirley. Never heard anyone put it that way, but it makes sense, and after having recently learned to hit the ground, I have to agree its an invaluable skill.

 

[GRIZ22]

More kudos to JShirey's post.

I think you should look for a classic martial art that fits you not what fits gunfighting. You learn a lot more in classic martial arts in addition to fighting. I'm not big on MMA which is only a fighting style.

 

[Nushif]

I started with Ed Parker Kenpo, whch is kind of a mix between gappling, striking and all kinds of things, it's mainly focused on effectiveness and less reliant on style, from there I briefly looked into Kung-Fu(sp?) which looked really cool and was a lot of fun, and had some very cool techniques and principles behind it that focus on grappling (I think it was Eagle Claw?), but utimately very much seemed bound into tradition. Then I did about a year of Haidong-Gumdo(sp?) which uses a sword so I'm not sure how useful that is. 8) Then I did my stint with Army Combatives, which again focused a lot on principles and grappling.

What I'm trying to get at here is that it's not so much the art but what you learn from it. If an instructor ever tells you "that's just tradition" or "well, it just works that way" I'd quit the school. The question of WHY you're doing what you're doing should always be answered. So sports schools really aren't my thing, either. The more trophies they have, the more likely they teach sports.

That being said I would love to pick up some Judo some day. Sure, it's a sport, but from what I've seen in a heartbeat you can modify that gentle throw into someone's face hitting the concrete really, really hard with you on top of them. 8)

 

[Skribs]

I like the idea of a martial art focused on movement over grappling or striking. I don't want to get into a fistfight - I want to back away from a melee aggressor and draw.

 

[Blackstone]

How about krav maga? Seems like a no-nonsense highly practical art

 

[HDCamel]

Judo.

Focused on body mechanics and throws/holds rather than strength and strikes.
Techniques that can be done with a gun in the hand.
Teaches ukemi, which are break fall techniques.

Also, the basics are fairly easy to learn.

 

[Trent]

26 years teaching / training in traditional Shotokan karate here. Would have to say from a practical self defense perspective, any martial art is going to be good; but be prepared to spend at least 3-5 years to get competent in any of them. Takes a long time to build up muscle memory to be able to react and move naturally.

Try a few out and see what you like and feel comfortable with. The nice thing about it is there are (usually) a lot of different styles being taught in any given area.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Krav Maga LEO and military training is specifically tailored for modern weapons integration. Handgun, carbine/shotgun, baton, tactical folder, fixed blade ETC ETC.

The problem being that unless your instructor is a Krav Maga LEO certified instructor and you are on the same page you won't get that specific training.

General Krav Maga training deals heavily with defense from all of the above. If you are going to do Krav Maga just make SURE that the school is either Krav Maga Alliance or World Wide affiliated. There are FAR to many traditional martial arts schools claiming to teach Krav Maga that isn't Krav at all.

PS

Krav Maga is not an "art" it's a self defense system.

 

[PoserHoser]

How about krav maga? Seems like a no-nonsense highly practical art

This

 

[Win_SX-1]

I think any self defense training will make you more aware and give you self confidence. Some are more defense orientated, some more attack.

I know our circumstances are different to your's but here are somethings to look for:

Have a look at what schools are nearby and class times that work for you. If the classes are too inconvenient, you'll probably drop out after a while.

Visit them, talk to the instructors and ask to observe a class. Do they teach the self-defense you want to learn? Are they the people you want to associate with?

What payment terms or contracts do they have?

In our case, we have a 5 year old son who has focus issues - not bad enough to be diagnosed as ADD or ADHD, but enough to sometimes be disruptive in class. Martial arts was suggested for him to help with the focus. My wife and I decided that we would also start to get fit.

We have a lot of schools in our area and I called a bunch of them. Some were rude on the phone - literally hostile to the idea of a potential student watching a training session. Others were really training for Mixed Martial Arts competitions - not what we want.

We visited 5 schools. One was way across town and we'd have to fight rush hour traffic to get to the classes. Another separated the men and women and catered for the "pink leotard" set. Not "People Like Us" (PLU)! Another one was more interested in breaking boards and pushing people into getting black belts.

Of the remaining two schools (Karate and Taekwondo) both fit our needs. The karate instructors seemed friendlier and more in tune with our son's needs and so we chose that school. We have now been going for 2 months and the difference in our son is amazing. My wife has lost 10 pounds and I've lost an inch off my waist but bulked up a bit on my shoulders. This is working for us a get fit program.

I guess what I'm saying is that unless you want to learn a particular style, any form of martial arts training will work. And you will probably keep up with the classes at the dojo round the corner than the one 20 miles away.

 

[robMaine]

When these threads come up I always recommend BJJ/Muay Thai/American Boxing/MMA, with some additional focus placed on weapons retention. Traditional martial arts, at a "traditional school" will teach you techniques, but will not prepare you for what a fight will be like. A boxing/mma gym has the advantage that you will get used to getting hit.

For those that think that MMA gyms are full of Macho Tough guys, below is a little piece written by my coach, This is relevant to starting any martial art, regardless of what you choose.




"Give Me Your Broken,
Give Me Your Beaten,
I Will Buld Them Up,
I Will Lead Them,
To The Threshold"

-From "To The Threshold" by Hatebreed

Kinda makes me think of the Statue Of Liberty quote: "Give me your tired, your poor....".

Great, so what?

I bring this up because I had another conversation about getting started yesterday with a person who was coming from the "I don't know if I'm tough enough" perspective.

I know some of that is because some people doubt themselves. Literally. They've never tried to see what they're capable of, so they are unsure. That's ok. No, that's not just ok.... That's awesome. It's awesome cause you're considering trying! Just the thinking about starting takes courage for most.

The problem is, that the sport of martial arts has gotten so big that everyone sees these high level monsters fighting. And they think.... "I don't think I can do that". You know what..... You probably can't. And that's ok. Those guys are the top 1%. They are genetic freaks, with SOLID training, who have literally sold themselves and their entire futures to that sport.

But just because you can't win the Boston Marathon doesn't mean you shouldn't enter any marathons. Or even more to the point, it doesn't mean you shouldn't run recreationaly, for fun and health, because you can't win a marathon!

See, The Academy isn't about sport. Never has been. The Academy is about using martial arts and strength training to improve yourself. To get stronger, and less afraid. To stop living your life based on fears, and doubts. To learn to fight your fight.... Whatever that may be! Can you acheive this goal without competing? ABSOLUTELY! A lot of people do. Once, they do get a little stronger, though, a lot of people use competitions to challenge themselves more. Some just grappling, some MMA. Some just the strength sports. And that's cool too. But don't think you have to fight professionally, or compete all the time, to belong here!

See, I'm NOT inspired by a big confident, athletic dude, that wants to steamroll this sport like he's steamrolled all of his sports.

I mean, I'll help him. It's fun. It's glamorous. And yeah, it gets attention. And that's good for the school...... Kinda. It lets the world see, we have monsters! Sweet.

Until, Joe Public starts thinking about finding a way to improve themselves. And flat removes us from consideration, because "That place is way over my head". That leads to a crazy phenomenon I've started seeing, where people pick a junk school, just because they think that's all they can do. They don't think they can hack a "real" school, so they settle.

NONSENSE!!!!!

Give me the scared. The weak. The ones that get turned away from the "Badass" places. I will make them monsters!

I've made my life, taking people that were destined to be anything other than tough, and help them find that monster that is in everyone. That's rewarding. That's motivating. That's what keeps me in the game.

Johnny Football is gonna be tough, and good no matter who he trains with. All you have to do is get out of his way, and he'll make you a name. Get you attention. Go ahead. Ride those coat tails. It's what most coaches look for.

Not interested.

I want the person that is almost sure they can't. There's just this faint glimmer of "maybe" buried in there. I want the not athletic. The not strong. The people who aren't sure if they "can" but can't stop daydreaming about it!

Because I can take them to their potential. I can make them stronger and less afraid.

I don't care if you compete in any of our disciplines, or just do them for yourself. I don't care if you do BJJ, or Muay Thai. I don't care if all you do is Olympic Weight Lifting. All I care about is that this place makes you more than you were before. More than you realized you could be.

Yeah, we've got some scary looking, tattooed, mangled eared, monsters who fight in cages.

But we also have, a guy that did his first BJJ tourny on his 52nd birthday. And a 46 year old lady who does Olympic Weightlifting even though she's NEVER done ANYTHING athletic before, and everyone told her there was NO WAY she could do it!

We've got troubled kids, and doctors. We've got people using The Academy to "rebuild" their lives, and accomplished people having their "crowning acheivement" moments here.

Yes, there are people just like you here.

Don't care how out of shape, or nervous you are.

Don't care how many other sports or workout methods you've failed at.

Don't care how many other schools you've been macho'd out of.

You can do it.

Just come in once, and you'll see.

Trust me.

 

[psyopspec]

How about krav maga? Seems like a no-nonsense highly practical art

While all the others mentioned are great sports that focus on development of balance and muscle memory, the OP had a specific question about martial arts incorporating firearms. Krav is the only one I've found that puts those principles front and center at the beginning. The only one I've trained that on day 1 focused on finishing the fight. The gym I went to not only incorporated regular weapons retention/defense/snatching, but also ran special seminars on knives and guns.

Comments on other stuff I've dabbled in: Modern Army Combatives Program (MACP), influenced by BJJ. Meant to keep you alive long enough for your buddy to show up and shoot your opponent in the head. Not great against multiple threats - achieving a rear nekkid choke on your assailent is great, but only until his friend comes and kicks you in the noggin. As a sport, highly athletic, and a lot of fun. Many worthwhile principles for how not to die in a fight. Against one other guy. Incorporation of weapons at the higher levels that most Army folks won't get much exposure to.

TKD: Fun sport, did it for years from youth to my teens. However, TKD is to SD as IDPA is to gun fighting.

 

[Hanshi]

After more than 50 years in the martial arts and as a now retired instructor I feel that I can offer at least a little real world advice. First, I would eschew any martial art that emphasizes punching and kicking or ground work. Effective striking and kicking take long and arduous training before they "kick in". Going to the ground on purpose is an absolute NO-NO! What you should look for is something that includes environmental weapons training, a bit of ground work (focusing on getting upright as quickly a humanly possible), vulnerable points on the body to attack, proper way to strike and no kicks above the knee, continuous movement, throws and joint locks.

These criteria suggest something in the jujitsu/aikido/combat judo realm. I've taught all these and many more in my career. Avoid at all costs any sport oriented schools, instructors who promise too much, those who will not work for your best interests and those who claim some "secret" or will not let you watch and try out class. Many aikido schools are into "peace and love" and don't believe in violence; stay away from them.

Visit several candidate schools, watch & try classes and talk with the instructor and a few (not black belts) students. Go with your gut feelings especially concerning the instructor. You should feel a comfortable and belonging vibe in the good ones.

I've had several low ranking students defend themselves handily. It's also a matter of will. Never, NEVER go easy, try to wing or worry about using excessive force; you go all the way and use everything you've got! And never forget, ALWAYS BE THE FIRST ONE TO CALL THE POLICE; DON'T DEFEND YOURSELF AND BE ACCUSED BY THE ATTACKERS OF ASSAULT.

 

[CrackerJim]

I would say Aikido for the top of the list. We worked defending against weapons, multiple attackers and making the ground your friend right from the start. (That's helped me more than one time in situations having nothing to do with self defense).

I also like the attitude of less focus on striking (used mostly as a diversion), as mentioned by others, it takes a lot of training to become effective and more focus on blending with the attackers movement to use their momentum to your advantage.

The side effects of better balance, awareness and conditioning are well received as well.

Good luck,

Jim

 

[Mike Sr.]

???

""TKD is to SD as IDPA is to gun fighting."""


PLEASE explain, I do not understand the TKD, SD, IDPA...

 

[psyopspec]

Thanks for pointing that out Mike. I didn't mean to be cryptic, so allow me to decode:

Tae Kwon Do is to Self Defense as IDPA (International Defensive Pistol Association, an organization that runs practical shooting competitions) is to gun fighting.

TKD teaches some fundamentals of movement and striking that could be useful in a fight, but taken as a whole I do not consider it the most effective form of self defense. Similarly, someone could be a gifted fundamental shooter able to quickly and smoothly apply fundamentals like drawing from a holster and accurately firing, but that won't necessarily make them great in a gun fight. TKD taught me a lot of things: Discipline, athleticism, movement, flexibility, some Korean words, etc. Krav Maga taught me to take my assailant's gun and end the fight with it. Both were fun, but if you're trying to mate a purpose to a martial art as a means to an end, go with the one that's purpose-built.

 

[dcarch]

I have been studying Tae Twon Do since I was eleven years old, and I must respectfully disagree. With proper training and plenty of discipline, Tae Kwon Do is just as viable of a martial art as any other. In fact, Tae Kwon Do offers some advantages over many of the other arts, especially in the area of striking distance. I personally can strike an opponent with a jumping kick at ranges of up to eight or nine feet, and I would not consider myself extraordinarily skilled in any sense of the word. To treat Tae Kwon Do as simply a militarized form of ballet would be a grave underestimation indeed. I mean no offense, simply defending my preferred school of martial arts.

Edit: I will add that my school focuses on the practical, "combat/sd" end of Tae Kwon Do. I wouldn't doubt that other schools may have turned Tae Kwon Do into some sort of over-ritualized dance routine. However, to assume that all of the martial art is semi-useless, teaching only basic fundamentals of combat, is a mistake.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Now bring a 5th dan TKD (well over 30 years), trained in KM, Soo Bak Do, boxing, Judo, and Shotokan, I would say JKD would be the way to go (Yes Jeet Kune Do) due to the philosophy which is basically 'pick what is useful for you, discard what is useless for you.'

That and Glockdo (my favorite.)

Deaf

 

[Rexster]

While not a named martial art system, per se, SouthNarc has a martial arts background, and he has mentioned those arts, though I cannot recall them. His material can be found at Shivworks.com. I attended ECQC twice, in about 2005 and 2006, before caring for an elderly relative curtailed my ability to travel.

I should note that the late Paul Gomez was involved with SouthNarc in the ECQC program.

It is not so much the individual art, in my opinion, but how it is taught/studied, that makes it mesh with firearms. If the art is studied conceptually, it can be readily integrated with
with other activities. A local friend, before he injured his back, taught me a small bit of small-circle ju jitsu, which he had integrated well with street-relevant defensive tactics.

 

[JShirley]

Teaches ukemi, which are break fall techniques

No, that's a partial definition. Ukemi encompasses all the ways to receive an attack without taking injury: "riding" strikes, rolling, closing your mouth and keeping your teeth together, tightening your abs but relaxing your other muscles, etc. All these things are ukemi.

John

 

[IlikeSA]

SSGT would be good to learn, if you are able. Most Southern police departments use it, and it is a good, no nonsense form of self-defense. Among the traditional arts, hapkido may be a good one to learn.

Here's a link to SSGT.

http://www.gossgt.com/

 

[psyopspec]

Deaf, I get what you're saying. I can definitely admit that the experience I had with TKD was only at one gym, when we live in a country with thousands. I still have a lot of respect for the Master I trained with. But still, in my subjective experience, I got more real-world fighting skills much faster out of Krav than I did with TKD and that was over a period of weeks as opposed to years.