Mexico Retaliates for Border Wall Plan

Status
Not open for further replies.
If we want to really change the illegal alien problem--that means stopping what now is an uncontrolled flood (or let's just call it an invasion and be done with it)--we are definitely going to have to run the risk of serious social strife. No way around that

I agree with you, and I add: "We have been facing social strife ever since the 70's when companies started moving down south to avoid paying high(er) wages in the north. Something like what you said almost MUST happen for us to get our country back. The alternative is Balkanization; which WILL lead to violence within a generation."

I, for one, will pay the "social strife" price now to avoid later Balkanization.
 
Outrageous!

Who are these corrupt mexican elitist politicians to tell us what to do in our own country? They can kiss my rosey-red booner! I know a BP agent that thinks a million mines per mile would help alot. I mean, the third world countries of the world sure try to throw their weight around.

I'm not at all against LEGAL immigration. I'm dead set against UNDOCUMENTED immigrants. I don't care whether or not they come in cargo containers, floating 100 to a raft, jumping ship off the coast or whatever, they don't belong here. The reason we concentrate on the illegal mexicans is because they're coming in human waves as opposed to the other ethnic groups. Why should we let this continue? A friend of mine from Zimbabwe (he still thinks of it as Rhodesia) is a board certified MD and had to wait 7 years. He had a job waiting and numerous sponsers. He could have started contributing to this society immediately! In the interim, probably a million unskilled detriments to our economy crossed over the border illegally.

The people to the south do has something in common with us though, some European ancestry. If it weren't for the European influence there would be no "mexicans" just Indians. It drives a Hispainc guy I know crazy when I accuse him of speaking a European language. They speak Spanish, NOT mexican. Also as stated mexico treats their Indian population unspeakably. They also guard their southern border well and are emotional when we want to guard ours? What hippocrites!

The people that don't live in the border states and are pro-illegals aren't the ones having their fences cut, livestock run off or killed, buildings vandalized, grounds turned into dumps, having their homes broken into and burgled, or being personnaly intimidated or outright being threatened by these "peaceful, hardworking migrants." Since they're not, they are talking out their rectum. I think we should shut the floodgates, get a handle on the situation, deport ALL undocumented people (I know, wishful thinking), then and only then have a well-controlled system that keeps track of the real, lawful migrants that come here to work.
 
The more Fox and his henchmen mouth off the better it is. We need a visceral reaction to the continuing insult of illegal immigration, and Fox and his buddies are going to let their own machismo finally wake up the American people.
 
JOE MACK said:
The people that don't live in the border states and are pro-illegals aren't the ones having their fences cut, livestock run off or killed, buildings vandalized, grounds turned into dumps, having their homes broken into and burgled, or being personnaly intimidated or outright being threatened by these "peaceful, hardworking migrants." Since they're not, they are talking out their rectum. I think we should shut the floodgates, get a handle on the situation, deport ALL undocumented people (I know, wishful thinking), then and only then have a well-controlled system that keeps track of the real, lawful migrants that come here to work.

+1
I agree 100%. Don't forget the fires. 90% of the wildfires in Southern Arizona are caused by "guest workers" who have no respect or regard for our country. I was forced to evacuate my home a few years ago. The slurry bombers were able to stop the fire several hundred yards away from my place. My neighbors weren't so lucky. They lost everything.

My home is within 10 miles of the border and around here we're getting kind of tired of self appointed experts living 2,000 miles away telling us "it's not so bad" or telling us how we should welcome these guest workers.

The general feeling around here is if you'll give us an open season with no bag limit. . . . . . . . .
 
longeyes said:
The more Fox and his henchmen mouth off the better it is. We need a visceral reaction to the continuing insult of illegal immigration, and Fox and his buddies are going to let their own machismo finally wake up the American people.
Yes indeed. Rave on Vinny, rave on...
Biker
 
Bottom Gun said:
+1
The general feeling around here is if you'll give us an open season with no bag limit. . . . . . . . .

If it comes to that, I think you'll find a lot of support from unexpected places. Once they get across the border, they don't just stop there you know.
 
yonderway said:
If it comes to that, I think you'll find a lot of support from unexpected places. Once they get across the border, they don't just stop there you know.

one place I expect support from is the white house. however all we get from there is called vigilantes.
 
A friend of mine that once lived in Eagle Pass Tx for a while was over last night and we were talking about this thread. His "back yard" ended close to the Rio Grande in a spot where the river was about 20-30 feet wide and about a foot deep. Said while he was living there he had completely lost count of how many times he repaired the back fence, and had considered just putting in a turnstyle.

BP was *always* at least 30 miles away to the north, and whisky tango foxtrot are the Minutemen?

He lived there > 20 years ago.

It hasn't gotten better.
-
 
There would appear to be a bit of hypocrisy here:

http://www.sierratimes.com/05/12/22/Mexico.htm


Mexico admits poor treatment of migrants
Associated Press


MEXICO CITY - Mexico's federal Human Rights Commission acknowledged on Wednesday that the country uses some of the same methods in dealing with illegal migrants that it has criticized the United States for employing.
The admission comes as Mexican Foreign Relations Secretary Luis Ernesto Derbez called on Latin American countries to unite against a U.S. House of Representatives bill to toughen border enforcement.

The bill, which passed on Friday with a 239-182 vote, would make illegal entry a felony, and enlist military and local police to help stop illegal entrants.

But officials of Mexico's federal Human Rights Commission acknowledged that Mexico already employs both tactics in its own territory.

"As a matter of fact, (Mexico's) population law does include prison terms for illegally entering the country ... and this is something that has been the subject of constant complaints," said Mauricio Farah, a national inspector for the rights commission.

Jose Luis Soberanes, president of the rights commission, said that Mexico also uses many government agencies, such as the police and the military, to detain undocumented migrants, even though Mexican law technically doesn't allow that.

"One of the saddest national failings on immigration issues," Soberanes told a news conference, "is the contradiction in demanding that the North (the United States) respect migrants' rights, which we are not capable of guaranteeing in the South," along Mexico's border with Guatemala.

But Soberanes slammed another provision of the U.S. immigration bill that would build 700 miles of additional fences or walls along the U.S.-Mexico border, calling it "absurd."

Derbez said in a news conference that Mexico has asked several governments in the region to denounce the fence proposal.

Many Mexicans, especially those who have worked in the United States, feel the proposal is a slap in the face to those who contribute to the U.S. economy.

Amnesty International's Mexico office said earlier in statement that a border wall would be "a historic setback for human rights" and "will multiply the loss of life" by making border crossings more dangerous. The commission also acknowledged that Mexico mistreats many migrants - mostly Central Americans who cross Mexico in a bid to reach the United States - and called for improvement on that front.

The human rights commission also presented a report on Wednesday that found overcrowding and bad conditions at about three-quarters of Mexico's 51 immigration detention centers and 68 other holding facilities.
 
But Soberanes slammed another provision of the U.S. immigration bill that would build 700 miles of additional fences or walls along the U.S.-Mexico border, calling it "absurd."
I hate to find myself agreeing with him, but it is absurd. Let's take the same money that would cost and start helping out the Minutemen project rather than fighting it. Let's move the BP that last 30-50 miles south to the border where they should be, and allow them to do their jobs - I'm sure they'd like to. Let's start fining the businesses that are hiring (soon to be) felons.

We don't need no stinking fence. Let's just start treating criminals like criminals.

Many Mexicans, especially those who have worked in the United States, feel the proposal is a slap in the face to those who contribute to the U.S. economy.
Yup. They spend a lot of money with the US Post Office shipping their earnings back to the third world. I've not seen any figures, but I'd bet it's $50 - $60 a year at least!
-
 
I'll be out of town for a few days -- so this will be my last post for a bit -- but I think that most folks just do not understand the full breadth of what it means (physically) should we attempt the full occupation/control of our southern border.

1. It would take a full mobilization, much more then this Iraq thing.
2. People (illegals) would still, by the thousands, get through.
3. It would cost, at best, MILLIONS and, likely, BILLIONS.
4. The economy in the United States would dramatically change, not always for the better.

The key, in my opinion, is to fundamentally change WHY people desire to come from Mexico to the United States. In all things, if you destroy the motivation, it stops happening. The question, to me, begs, "what is the motivation", and "how can we minimize it."

Anything else is a very expensive band-aid or finger in a leaking dike, no?
 
Ezekiel said:
I'll be out of town for a few days -- so this will be my last post for a bit -- but I think that most folks just do not understand the full breadth of what it means (physically) should we attempt the full occupation/control of our southern border.

1. It would take a full mobilization, much more then this Iraq thing.
2. People (illegals) would still, by the thousands, get through.
3. It would cost, at best, MILLIONS and, likely, BILLIONS.
4. The economy in the United States would dramatically change, not always for the better.

The key, in my opinion, is to fundamentally change WHY people desire to come from Mexico to the United States. In all things, if you destroy the motivation, it stops happening. The question, to me, begs, "what is the motivation", and "how can we minimize it."

Anything else is a very expensive band-aid or finger in a leaking dike, no?

it's very simple, prison time for employers who employ them. problem solved overnight.
 
I'm not convinced a wall is the thing to do. I favor workplace enforcement, perp walks, and staking out watering holes like emergency rooms, welfare offices, and day labor sites. Bring the media and after a week or so the message will be well understood.
 
Ezekiel:

From the warfront (U.S./Mexican Border in Eastern Arizona)...

In general I agree with what you are saying, but one thing is very clear to us.

The Mexican government/power structure has no intention of changing things. They like it the way it is. Most of those persons who illegally come to the United States send U.S. dollars (best money in the world) back to Mexico, and their own government (which is mostly Socialist/Communist based) doesn't have to worry about taking care of them. As a result, these people are encouraged to migrate, and supported in doing so. This is why they get so mad anytime someone on this side proposes to stop things.

In the end we must either do what is necessary to protect our own border - or admit that there isn't any border. In the face of this reality we don't have very many viable (and no inexpensive) options. :banghead:
 
The Mexican government/power structure has no intention of changing things.
Agreed, for someone who had traveled in Mexico lived on and near the border
for years in my opinion it is a very corrupt country and it brings that north
along with other problems. I had hopes for Mexico some year back however
now I feel it grows worse and at this point not sure it can change without
a major event.
 
The key, in my opinion, is to fundamentally change WHY people desire to come from Mexico to the United States. In all things, if you destroy the motivation, it stops happening. The question, to me, begs, "what is the motivation", and "how can we minimize it."

That sounds like a massive nation-building program for Mexico. We'd better start worrying about our own nation for a change. Besides, pouring money into Mexico, as it is, is not going to transform that society into some paragon of lawful capitalism and civil liberties. The cultural deficiencies of Mexico are entrenched, and they are not going away any more than the underlying issues of the Middle East are about to vanish because suddenly everyone has a cellphone. When you evolve a society that turns kidnaping into a profit center and where drug money is the real native language, you have sunk into a moral squalor that only a deep spiritual revolution can heal.

I'm not opposed to the The Wall but it will be an expensive and probably ham-handed approach to dealing with the problem. We need to remove the carrot. Make working here, and offering work, impossible for illegal aliens. Remove the social welfare benefits. Stop the incentive of anchor babies. Block money transfers back to Mexico. Put employers who hire illegals in jail. After we do all that we can deal with those who are still here and those who still want to come here illegally.
 
Bush has a plan for dealing with that "motivation." He plans, in cahoots with the Social Security Administration, to use our SS system to alleviate poverty on a broadscale in Mexico. He's said as much. You can look it up.
 
in case you wondered whose side Bush is really on...

PR guru Allyn draws flak on Mexico

Right critical of his attempt to recast nation's image

11:59 PM CST on Thursday, December 22, 2005

By LAURENCE ILIFF / The Dallas Morning News

Rob Allyn
Rob Allyn

MEXICO CITY – Dallas public relations guru Rob Allyn barely had finalized a contract with the Mexican government to improve its image stateside when he found himself face to face in prime time with his clients' toughest critics.

They include Fox News' Bill O'Reilly, who predicted a long year and tough sell for Mr. Allyn, a longtime Bush family adviser who helped George W. Bush beat Ann Richards in the 1994 Texas gubernatorial election.

Mr. Allyn, who kept his role in the 2000 presidential campaign of Vicente Fox a secret until Mr. Fox's victory, said Thursday that he's ready to defend Mexico as a reliable neighbor that does not deserve the new border fences that would come with an immigration bill now making its way through the U.S. Congress.

So far, Mr. Allyn said, his questioners have been fair-minded even in some rough venues. Of Mr. O'Reilly, who would like to see the U.S. military on the border to stem illegal immigration, Mr. Allyn said: "He was interested, he was listening."

Already, in just the few days since the one-year, $720,000 contract was announced by Mexico's Foreign Ministry, reactions to Mr. Allyn's role have been intense, divided and plentiful.
Also Online

Mexican-Americans feel slighted by Allyn hiring

"The phones have been ringing off the hook, and [there's] the hate e-mail," said Mr. Allyn. "We have a lot of people who question your patriotism."

On the flip side, he said, his office has received phone calls from business leaders, politicians and others from California to Texas to New York applauding his promotion of Mexico as a great business partner.

This latest assignment, Mr. Allyn said, is more than just another business contract.

"For me, on a personal level, this is a dream assignment," said Mr. Allyn, who heads Allyn & Co., which is owned by the Fleishman-Hillard public relations group. "I have gotten so tired of the way people treat Mexico. I believe in the cause, so I love the opportunity to share my views. I've held these views for a long time. I relish the opportunity to help in some small way."

Not a newcomer

Mr. Allyn said he has made more than 100 trips to Mexico over the last decade and knows what he's talking about. Since helping Mr. Fox become the first Mexican president from an opposition party in 71 years, Mr. Allyn has served as a political consultant to three gubernatorial candidates from Mr. Fox's National Action Party. All have won, he said.

Other clients of Mr. Allyn's Mexico-related consulting include American Airlines and Bank of America.

Under Mr. Fox, Mr. Allyn said, Mexico has become more democratic and less corrupt, and it is the United States' second-largest trade partner in the world. The U.S. sells $111 billion in goods to Mexico every year, he said. But many Americans don't know that. Yet.

"Periodically, in the U.S. and elsewhere, the pendulum swings ... in the way we view our neighbors," said Mr. Allyn. "I think it's all the more important to stay calm and do what's right when things turn hysterical."

"I believe when people understand how important business with Mexico is, the U.S., people in North America will want to build bridges to Mexico, not walls," he added. Mr. Allyn's contract also includes promoting Mexico in Canada.

A bill passed by the U.S. House last week would toughen penalties for undocumented workers and employers who hire them. It also would fund more walls along the 2,000-mile U.S.-Mexico border.

It does not include a provision, favored by President Bush, to expand a guest worker program to allow more Mexicans to work legally in the U.S.

Mr. Allyn said such a temporary-worker program would be a step toward making immigration "safe and legal and orderly and controlled." Immigrants are a valuable source of labor to the U.S., he added.

The bill will next be considered by the U.S. Senate.

In Mexico, the use of U.S. lobbying firms is not new. Former President Carlos Salinas de Gortari used them to help promote the North American Free Trade Agreement before it was ratified in the U.S. Congress in 1993.

A spokesman for Mr. Fox's office said the current president also has used U.S. public relations firms but not to the same extent as Mr. Salinas.

When Mr. Allyn served as an adviser to Mr. Fox in the 2000 presidential race, he kept his role secret because the use of foreign consultants in Mexico's domestic political campaigns still was controversial.

Mr. Fox, who cannot run for re-election, has been criticized by opposition politicians for spending taxpayer money to promote the president's image at home, through TV and radio spots and newspaper ads.

The practice, however, is legal, and nearly all local, state and federal agencies have budgets to promote their activities.

In Mexico, criticism of the possible crackdown on immigration by the U.S. has been harsh and nonstop for a week.

But Mexico also faces some criticism of its own, which Mr. Allyn may have to address down the road.

Mexico's federal Human Rights Commission acknowledged this week that in dealing with illegal migrants, the country uses some of the same methods it has criticized the United States for employing.

The admission comes as Mexican Foreign Secretary Luis Ernesto Derbez called on Latin American countries to unite against the U.S. House bill to toughen border enforcement. The bill, which passed last Friday on a 239-182 vote, would enlist military and local police to help stop illegal entrants.

Shared tactics

But officials of Mexico's federal Human Rights Commission acknowledged that Mexico already employs both tactics in its own territory.

"As a matter of fact, [Mexico's] population law does include prison terms for illegally entering the country ... and this is something that has been the subject of constant complaints," said Mauricio Farah, a national inspector for the rights commission.

José Luis Soberanes, president of the rights commission, said Mexico also uses many government agencies, such as the police and the military, to detain undocumented migrants, even though Mexican law technically doesn't allow that.

"One of the saddest national failings on immigration issues," Mr. Soberanes told a news conference, "is the contradiction in demanding that the North [the U.S.] respect migrants' rights, which we are not capable of guaranteeing in the South," along Mexico's border with Guatemala.

E-mail [email protected]
 
One way of paying for the protection of the border would be to confinscate all moneys and material possesions of ANY illegal caught in the U.S.. They are in this country ILLEGALLY, and as made the money ILLEGALLY, and as a FELON would have no right to profit from the CRIME. This holds for ANY employer that hires them. Stop the flow of ILLEGALY obtained money from leaving the U.S..

Oneshooter
Livin in TEXAS
 
That's right ! Since they are criminals here, the money they carry must be ill gotten, like drug money for example. Our public servants confiscate "drug" money from US citizens, why can't they do it to foreigners as well?

The deputies at the county jail here have discovered that a number of "guest workers" have a considerable amount of cash in the form of large bills sewn into the waistbands of their jeans.

It could pay to operate a clothing exchange along the border. Send them home wearing orange jumpsuits or, better yet, some of the latest pink fashions from Sheriff Joe's line of designer prison garb.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top