Mexico Retaliates for Border Wall Plan

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The Mouse that Roared

We are not going to go anywhere and we are not going to kill anyone.

Mexico will declare war and we will win it in five to ten minutes. Then, we'll march south of the border as the conquering force and dump billions of 'Ameribux' into the country rebuilding it for them.
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Duplicate threads merged, AGAIN... :fire:

Folks, please use common sense. If you can see a similar thread to your idea already open, please DO NOT start a duplicate thread!!! It just irritates the moderators and adds to the administrative workload.
 
scubie02 said:
they are going to turn the international community against the plan? Why would the international community care, and how can anyone tell a sovereign nation they can't secure their borders? Much of Europe is MUCH more strict about not allowing foreign immigration to their countries--not that that would stop them from criticising us of course.

Personally its not a big issue for me given where I live, but the people out there seem to get really perturbed about it so its obviously a big deal to them.
Exactly. Just look at Spains few remaining "colonies" in Morocco. Razor wire, armed guards, and it wouldn't surprise me if they have (or used to have) mines too.
From one european with some common sense: Build your wall. I'll defend your policies on european (swedish) forums to the best of my ability :)
 
Where do you guys get these ideas - killing them, managing them, nursing them, absorbing them, starving them, isolating them? Are they ours to do as we please? We have enough imperialism / globalism / statism already, don't we?

Why do you want to interfere in the works of a sovereign (crappy) country? Isn't it their interference in our affairs that is one of the bones of contention?

Secure the border, deport the illegals, jail their employers, and legalize soft drugs. (Our) Problems solved. Leave their internal problems to themselves.
 
CAnnoneer said:
Why do you want to interfere in the works of a sovereign (crappy) country? Isn't it their interference in our affairs that is one of the bones of contention?

I don't want to interfere in their affairs. I don't want them interfering in ours. If they interfere with ours, in the form of an act of war (not necessarily a declaration, but an act is enough... and it could be argued that they've already crossed that line) then it is perfectly valid to discuss just how far we as a nation take our campaign before declaring total victory, and then also determine what to do with our beaten foe when we are done warring with them.

It's all a matter of self defense, and reacting to the actions they have already taken (and, hypothetically, the ones that they might take to get us to go to full-on war)
 
CAnnoneer said:
Where do you guys get these ideas - killing them, managing them, nursing them, absorbing them, starving them, isolating them? Are they ours to do as we please? We have enough imperialism / globalism / statism already, don't we?

Why do you want to interfere in the works of a sovereign (crappy) country? Isn't it their interference in our affairs that is one of the bones of contention?

Secure the border, deport the illegals, jail their employers, and legalize soft drugs. (Our) Problems solved. Leave their internal problems to themselves.

Wow, that is the most sensible and pragmatic approach to most of our problems, the only other thing I would add to it is repeal the 68GCA. Now how do we persuade Jorge to do this?
 
It's all a matter of self defense, and reacting to the actions they have already taken (and, hypothetically, the ones that they might take to get us to go to full-on war)

That's very close to the mantra we spouted about Imperial Japan before they determined our "sanctions" were too manifest on their way of life. (Oil embargos and the like.) They, soon thereafter, began plotting a day of infamy (our perspective). Our response? "Gloves were off." Obviously.

However, until Mexican tanks roll north into Brownsville, Texas, or evidence can be found that Mexico is training illegals in support of a government [theirs] mandated uprising in the United States, I think annexation ideas are loony. :uhoh:

before declaring total victory

I have an idea. Let's have the President do a carrier trap onto the USS Lexington (CVT-16). She's already in Coprus Christi and, once again, he can "declare victory" from the deck of a flattop. Better yet [sarcasm], let's just launch some air strikes from there. All you really need is a platform...[/sarcasm]

This talk of outright "war" with Mexico is coming from Chairborne Rangers, right? Grotesque...
 
However, until Mexican tanks roll north into Brownsville, Texas, or evidence can be found that Mexico is training illegals in support of a government [theirs] mandated uprising in the United States, I think annexation ideas are loony.

This is 2005. Illegal emigration, in mass numbers, is war by other means. It is actively aided and abetted by the Mexican government. It is couched as retaking of territory that is rightfully theirs. When illegal aliens suck off our public treasury and vote illegally, especially with an idea of "reconquista," they are engaged in acts of war.

You can win a war by outgunning the enemy; you can also win a war by out-reproducing an enemy. Wake up.
 
you can also win a war by out-reproducing an enemy. Wake up.

Oh, I'm quite certain the amount of "wholly American" social leeches does -- and will -- far outway any attempt to "out reproduce" us by Hispanics. Wow, it's almost as if you've taken this whole "alien" thing too far: now they are cloning their warriors within our mist. :what:

[sigh] May I recommend this hat, sir? It's made of a very pretty, crinkly even, shiny material! It can even be formed into a cone...

It is actively aided and abetted by the Mexican government.

Documentation?
 
Documentation?
I direct your attention to the following.
Mexico publishes guide to assist border crossers

Chris Hawley
Republic Mexico City Bureau
Jan. 1, 2005 12:00 AM

MEXICO CITY - The Mexican government is giving out a colorful new comic book with advice for migrants, but immigration-control advocates worry that some of the tips may encourage illegal border crossers.

The 32-page book, The Guide for the Mexican Migrant, was published in December by Mexico's Foreign Ministry. Using simple language, the book offers safety information for border crossers, a primer on their legal rights and advice on living unobtrusively in the United States.

Dramatic drawings show undocumented immigrants wading into a river, running from the U.S. Border Patrol and crouching near a hole in a border fence. On other pages, they hike through a desert with rock formations reminiscent of Arizona and are caught by a stern-faced Border Patrol agent.
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"This guide is intended to give you some practical advice that could be of use if you have made the difficult decision to seek new work opportunities outside your country," the book says.

But immigration-control groups questioned some of the guide's advice.

"This is more than just a wink and a nod," said Rick Oltman, Western field director for the Federation for American Immigration Reform. "This is so transparent, this is the Mexican government trying to protect its most valuable export, which is illegal migrants."


Book distribution
The book is being distributed as a free supplement to El Libro Vaquero, a popular cowboy comic book, in five Mexican states that send many migrants to the United States: Zacatecas, Michoacán, Puebla, Oaxaca and Jalisco. The government plans to print 1.5 million copies.

The book comes with a yellow disclaimer saying it does not promote undocumented immigration, and it repeatedly warns against crossing illegally. But it gives no information about the steps for seeking a U.S. visa.

Instead, it offers frank safety tips. In the section on crossing rivers, it notes, "Thick clothing increases your weight when wet, and this makes it difficult to swim or float."

On crossing the desert, it says, "Try to walk during times when the heat is not as intense" and says migrants should follow power lines or train tracks if they get lost.

The book warns migrants that they may have to walk for days to reach towns or roads in the desert and that they will not be able to carry enough water or food.

But it also shows a woman adding salt to a water bottle and advises, "Salt water helps you retain your body's liquids. Although you'll feel thirstier, if you drink water with salt the risk of dehydration is much lower."

Mexican authorities say they're just trying to keep migrants safe.

"We are not inviting them to cross, but we're doing everything we can to save lives," said Elizabeth García Mejía, chief coordinator for the Nogales, Sonora, section of Mexico's Grupo Beta migrant protection service.

Carlos Flores Vizcarra, Mexican consul general of Phoenix, said he had not seen the guide until a reporter showed it to him.

He said the guide appeared to be only the latest attempt by the Mexican government to warn migrants about the dangers of crossing the border without proper documentation.

The reality, however, is that many migrants will try to do so anyway, he said.

"This is nothing new. It's a way to put it in very simple terms so people will understand the risks," Flores Vizcarra said. "The intention is out of concern for human rights. People are doing it anyway. We cannot ignore that there is a very big migration between our two countries, and people who are coming to work need to understand the risks."


Mixed messages
Some migrants from Mexico who have crossed the border illegally in the past said the guide seems to send a mixed message.

"On the one hand they seem to be saying, 'Don't cross,' but on the other hand they are saying, 'Cross,' " Humberto Morales, 22, an undocumented immigrant from Oaxaca working as a day laborer in Phoenix, said after looking at a copy.

He doubts the guide will keep many people in Mexico from crossing illegally, but he said it could help save lives.

"We have lots of programs like this in Mexico, but people keep crossing," Morales said.

No official at the Foreign Ministry headquarters in Mexico City would agree to an interview about the comic book, despite repeated requests through the ministry's media relations office.

The book's pictures are drawn to match the style of El Libro Vaquero. They portray the migrants as strong and healthy men and women, wading into a river or walking through the desert.

One section of the book urges caution when dealing with immigrant smugglers, known as coyotes or polleros. It shows migrants climbing into the back of a tractor-trailer, a possible reference to the 19 migrants who died in Texas after being sealed in a tractor-trailer in May 2003.


On getting caught
Another section warns migrants not to lie to U.S. authorities or use false identification, and it gives instructions on what to do if caught by the Border Patrol.

"Don't throw stones or objects at the officer or patrol vehicles because this is considered a provocation," it says. "Raise your hands slowly so they see you are unarmed."

A picture shows a group of migrants running from a Border Patrol sport utility vehicle, though the text urges them not to flee.

"It's better to be detained a few hours and repatriated to Mexico than to get lost in the desert," it says.

Seven pages are devoted to migrants' legal rights after they are detained and another four to living peacefully in the United States.

"Avoid attracting attention, at least while you are arranging your stay or documents to live in the United States," it says. "The best formula is to not alter your routine of going from work to home."

The Arizona Republic faxed copies of the guide to the U.S. Border Patrol, FAIR and two groups that support stronger controls on immigration.

A Border Patrol spokesman said he does not think the book encourages illegal crossers.

"If they've already gone ahead and made that decision to cross illegally . . . then anything that helps protect lives is worth it," said Andy Adame, spokesman for the Border Patrol's Tucson sector.


Beyond protection
But the immigration-control groups said some of the advice goes beyond protecting migrants and, instead, encourages them.

"A lot of it is disclaimers, but then there's this part about if you're going to cross the desert, do it when the sun isn't so hot," said Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Washington-based Center for Immigration Studies. "It's a mixed message."

Said John Vincent, editor of a newsletter published by Virginia-based Americans for Immigration Control: "It really looks like the Mexican government is encouraging illegal immigration. It shows the contempt that the Mexican government has for our laws."

The Mexican government produces a similar book aimed at Central American immigrants who try to enter Mexico illegally. The book covers much of the same information about legal rights and repeats many of the warnings. It even shows a group of migrants struggling to breathe inside a truck.

But that book doesn't give the same kind of safety tips on crossing the border or advise immigrants on how to live peacefully in Mexico.

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special03/articles/0101Comic01.html
 
Ezekiel said:
Wow, it's almost as if you've taken this whole "alien" thing too far: now they are cloning their warriors within our mist.[sigh] May I recommend this hat, sir? It's made of a very pretty, crinkly even, shiny material! It can even be formed into a cone...

Dude, you live in Kansas. longeyes and I live in Los Angeles, SoCal. Things here are VERY different from Kansas. Hispanics ARE baby factories for a number of reasons, not the least being .gov support. Five, six, seven kids per family; that's insane. Malthus is laughing in his grave...
 
you're not in Kansas any more

One more generation and the Midwestern breadbasket will be entirely farmed by, if not outright owned by, illegal aliens from Mexico. Heck, the Governor of Iowa's clamoring for them, I hear--the Anglo kids all want to head for L.A. to be rappers and porn stars. Omaha now has, what, 28 Latino soccer teams? Take a roll call in the meatpacking houses; save time, do it in Spanish.

Wake up and smell the frijoles, amigo.

I like the hat, by the way. It says hecho en Mejico--how come?:)
 
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/mskoped050104.html

Here's an article on immigration as fourth generation warfare. There is a lot more to illegal border crossers than just "good hearted working people." I doubt Mexico is doing the war thingy against the US. What it is doing is trying to fix problems which will ultimately become dangerous to the ruling class if not fixed. Our ruling class thinks it advisable to help Mexico's ruling class with its problem. Guess who gets it in the end (sic).
 
Biker said:
Well Sindawe, I would have to call that a one punch KO.:)
Biker

Definitely a solid shot, but there is a world of difference between some undersecretary or bureacratic department putting out a pamphlet and el Presidente [theirs] stumping for illegal immigration.

I, for one, don't think that everything Gail Devers says or does has been vetted by the President [ours].

Still, a palpable hit...
 
Dude, you live in Kansas. longeyes and I live in Los Angeles, SoCal.

And? In all seriousness, I always think it is odd when Texans and Southern Californians don't accept that their entire state was annexed and created around a class that they, now, want "something done about." That being said, Kansas City is in Missouri, not Kansas, and I don't hold you guys as part of that hypocritical group.

One more generation and the Midwestern breadbasket will be entirely farmed by, if not outright owned by, illegal aliens from Mexico.

Ah, yes: this I know something about. Yup, there are a lot of folks here -- I don't know if they're illegal or not -- who do migrant work. Of course, without them, an ear of corn would be $7. There is a trade off.

I like the hat, by the way. It says hecho en Mejico--how come?

Okay, "that's funny." Just be certain it's not on too tight! :)

I hear--the Anglo kids all want to head for L.A. to be rappers and porn stars.

Does that say something bad about the kids, Los Angeles, or both?

Hispanics ARE baby factories for a number of reasons, not the least being .gov support.

I don't think that is a weak argument, I just think you've got it too culturally directed and it becomes somewhat meaningless: there are FAR more "white trash" baby factories on assistance in this land of ours then there are Hispanics. The fact that you are in a localized pocket speaks only to a geographic area, not an inherent social problem within Hispanics.
 
They are worried about a darn wall? I would make it a mine field if I could. If you want to come here, do it the legal way like my forefathers did.

My ancestors came by many ways. Some walked here according to some scientists. Some were brought here against their will. Some came on ships. I'm not aware of a single one who came with a visa or even would have known what a visa was. All of them came in before the bureaucrats issued their first decree.

Granted, for many of them, the present owners probably would have loved to put up a mine field.
 
Just a thought, they hurt somewhat. If there is a possability of violence between the U.S. and the RoM would we have to worry about a guerrlia (sp)war in the border states and/ or beyond? With all of the unknown illegals in the States there would seem to be a ready made force that is mostly unseen. Comments?

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas
 
oneshooter said:
Just a thought, they hurt somewhat. If there is a possability of violence between the U.S. and the RoM would we have to worry about a guerrlia (sp)war in the border states and/ or beyond? With all of the unknown illegals in the States there would seem to be a ready made force that is mostly unseen. Comments?

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas
At least 13,000 MS13 members and a butt-load of auxilliaries. We're already at war.
Biker
 
A word about Kansas...

I pick up a truckload of refrigerated food (salads) from a plant in Topeka every Monday. I bring the same plant a truckload of ingredients every Wednesday. I've been doing this for nearly 2 yrs.

I'm guessing that this business employs approximately 400 folks.

I'm also guessing that 80% (or more) of the employees are Hispanic...most of the ones that I come into contact with speak broken/very little English. I'd be willing to bet that a significant portion of them are illegal.
 
personal view

well i look at it like this is't the united states of america not the untied states of mexico let the mexcians work in thier own country if they dont like thier country the they need to work to change it not run away.
 
If we want to really change the illegal alien problem--that means stopping what now is an uncontrolled flood (or let's just call it an invasion and be done with it)--we are definitely going to have to run the risk of serious social strife. No way around that, I'm afraid, unless we just want to roll over and start waving the Mexican flag.

Rappers & Porn Stars: The problem isn't "the kids," the problem isn't "L.A.," the problem is what America's becoming. It's all interrelated.
 
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