Mexico Retaliates for Border Wall Plan

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Yes, that's the distinction the Left is at pains to to blur. Americans are pissed about illegal immigration, about being inudated, about their sovereignty being violated. There are very, very few Americans who have a problem with legal immigration. We all know we came from somewhere else if you go back enough.
 
yonderway said:
Oh yeah. Genocide is always a great way to solve international conflicts.</sarcasm>

For the record, it is NOT genocide. I am only talking about killing off those still in Mexico (and those here illegally).

Mexicans who are legally in this country, they are fine. Odds are, we would end up assimilating a few (maybe 1%) of the Mexicans, in Mexico. Just have to find the good ones.

As for Americans not being big on having kids, that is true. Gotta find a fix for that, or we will go Europes route anyway.
 
Sindawe said:
Well, we tried giving them back their nation after we soundly thrashed them in open war, and look what the result is. I say if it comes to war again, this time we KEEP what we conquer and make the land and peoples OURS.

Ugh ... keeping the northern third of Mexico would be the booby prize if ever there was one.
 
yonderway said:
Oh, well why didn't you say so? That makes it better. :rolleyes:

Well, those who survive the war would have their RKBA no longer infringed, so yah it does make it better.

Doesn't Mexico have some lovely restrictions? Someone needs to give Delano Bush my plan, after all, it will be expanding human rights...
 
Why can't they just keep their people in their own country? I have no issue whatsoever with legal immigration...but these people are coming over in droves illegally and taking aid/food.jobs away from legal citizens that need it....In my small town, if I was anything but white, I could get help...as it is, we were told by our welfare office that they will not assist us because we are not foreign or an immigrant (illegal or not didn't matter)..

So yeah, build the wall...build it really high, electrify it...put dogs in the middle and turrets in towers....something has to be done....otherwise we might as well forget that this is America and just call it Little Mexico.....

Mexico needs to learn to reel their people in.....we can't take care of our own, let alone all their people as well :cuss:

My ancestors were forced to learn English to survive here...The Latin Americans should be forced the same if they wish to be citizens....Keep your culture in your home, but adapt to the language of your new home rather then expect them to cater to you....


Mneme
 
longeyes said:
Let's leave the mass slaughter part aside.

One rub is that Americans don't re-populate. Would that they did. Too many toys, I guess, huh?
Could be that the "toys" are the problem. Heh heh...
:evil:
Biker
 
We all know we came from somewhere else if you go back enough.

"My route involved the Bering Strait." (Most Americans are hypocrites on this issue, but that doesn't really matter at this point.)

Mexico cannot block a wall and we cannot really afford to build or man one. Much like China's ineffective Wall, or the Maginot Line, it is one big red herring. Similar to Reagan's Star Wars, it -- even if built -- wouldn't be highly effective: it's the threat that is being used to effectively get Mexico's attention.

Let's see how this plays out...
 
Ezekiel said:
Mexico cannot block a wall and we cannot really afford to build or man one.

We can easier afford building one and manning it than not.

I would love to see a harder line. In no way do I hate the Mexican people. But I do think that it would be legitimate for us to have a DMZ on the border, and allow civilians to participate in border security. Someone crosses the line? It's fair game to shoot. The dead are left in the DMZ as a warning to others.

Oh, sure, some will still make it across. But it won't be millions a year. Probably not even thousands per year.
 
shaldag said:
What bothers me here is the referral to "a growing tide of anti-immigrant sentiment" in the US.

I see a lot of anti-illegal immigration sentiment. Most of the folks that I know don't really care about legal immigration.

I agree. I am not anti-immigrant. Folks who come here legally and join our society are welcome. Folks that com here covertly and/or try and change our society can just go elsewhere.

If you want our country to be like yours, then stay in your country. I like mine the way it is thank you very much.

I think it's your obligation when emmigrating to a new country that your try and adaprt and follow their customs. I would do that if I moved to another country. However I don't want to - therefore I stay here.
 
Wall is a great idea... As long as it is defended properly. Then again, we know they have bulldozers (From the dump truck I10 story last month) and other ways around it.

We are currently in a defacto state of war with mexico. They have invaded us, send armed troops across the border regularly, and attacked our BP. Look at the southern Mexican border... its like a fortress. Armed troops and all.

I think a mine field would be more effective and less costly.
 
I have the ultimate solution.

1. Declare mexico a national threat (terrorist or otherwise) which, in a sense, they are. They are incouraging an illegal invasion of the USA. That coutns to me.

2. Take over mexico.

3. Make it a state (or several).

4. Make mexico a better place to live (sounds elitist, i know, but if we make mexico like america then people wont want to immigrate away from it).

Or

1. Impose importation/exportation/travel blockade on mexico.

2. Watch them beg for mercy.

3. The UN wont say/do anything because its...well...the UN.
 
I think a mine field would be more effective and less costly.

Well, it's better then a wall, but mines are so VERY un-P.C. on an international level which, quite frankly, would be an issue, I'm sure.

I just don't think folks have taken into account the enormity of what is being suggested. I'll try to find the quote but, I know I read somewhere that -- even if a complete border wall was instantaneously constructed tomorrow -- we could recall our Armed Forces from across the globe and still not have enough folks to man it properly.

Logistically, this just "doesn't work."

Insert Admiral Ackbar voice here: "It's a trap!"
 
1. Declare mexico a national threat (terrorist or otherwise) which, in a sense, they are. They are incouraging an illegal invasion of the USA. That coutns to me.

2. Take over mexico.

3. Make it a state (or several).

Uh oh. There goes the neighborhood.

Time for the threads to merge! :fire:
 
***!!!!!!!!!!

How do they plan to block an action that they have no say in???? Like my neighbor can tell me not to build a fence because it violates his right to come over and take MY BEER, out of MY FRIDGE!! This guy is so full of himself, that if he wasn't president of Mexico it would be hillarious:cuss: :uhoh: ...

PS- If the US ever absorbed Mexico,"into the union", it should be one state or a territory, so it doesn't add more liberal agenda driven idiot senators into an already stressed population of morons:p .
 
Sorry, i was being sarcastic. Thought the "Ultimate solution" part would give it away.

I am however serious about the blockade.

Sorry. Folks were just so serious about it over in the other thread.

In terms of a "blockade", I think the United States has so many manufacturing ties to Mexico now that doing so would hurt us more then at does them. (They remain a 2nd-tier democracy and we have rampant upheaval: it's all relative.)

That's merely an opinion, however.
 
crush it or watch it spread

Mexican gangs force Indians to grow opium

By Tim GaynorWed Dec 21, 8:12 AM ET

Mexican Indians have grown maize, worshiped nature and lived by the light of pine torches in the canyons of the western Sierra Madre mountains for centuries. But this way of life is abruptly changing.

Now armed drug gangs are forcing them to plant opium poppies and marijuana in their ancestral lands, which lie in a notorious region dubbed Mexico's 'Golden Triangle' of drug trafficking.

The rugged point where the states of Chihuahua, Durango and Sinaloa meet is home to around 90,000 Tarahumara, Tepehuan, Pima and Guarijio Indians, around half of whom are getting caught up -- only a few of them willingly -- in the spiraling trade, community leaders say.

The vulnerable groups live in log cabins or caves hewn from the rock of the plunging mile-deep canyons. Speaking in a consonant-rich dialect, they live by planting maize and beans and raising goats in a precarious hand-to-mouth existence.

Since the 1970s, tribal activists say at least 40 indigenous leaders have been gunned down by the chainsaw-wielding loggers and drug planters, in a conflict that is little known in the rest of Mexico.

The problem has recently become so bad that it is reaching even far-flung villages like Pino Gordo, a highly traditional Tarahumara Indian community watched over by peyote-chewing shamans, some 50 miles (80-km) from the nearest road.

"Outsiders are coming in and cutting down our oak and pine trees without our permission," the community's traditional leader Prudencio Ramos said in broken Spanish.

"They walk among us with guns and sow marijuana and poppies, and people are afraid," he added.

DRUGS, GUNS AND CHAINSAWS

While home to indigenous groups, the rugged tri-state area is also the cradle of the Mexican drug trade, where Chinese settlers first came in the 19th century to grow opium poppies for morphine-based painkillers sold in the United States.

Now, locals say traffickers are pushing ever deeper into the labyrinthian canyons of the Sierra, felling the old growth forests and planting illegal drug crops away from the vigilant gaze of the Mexican army, who set up road blocks in the area.

"The traffickers look for the most out-of-the-way places to plant marijuana and poppies ... and these are precisely the areas where the indigenous groups live," said Ramon Castellano, a local agricultural consultant of mixed Pima Indian descent.

They force some Stetson-wearing Indian farmers to plant marijuana and poppies at gun point. Others accept seeds, money and provisions from the traffickers in a bid to squeeze a few extra pesos from their marginal lands.

Toward harvest time in March and April, locals say burly cartel minders with assault rifles and two-way radios watch over the pockets of opium poppy blooms, which are transformed into increasingly pure "black tar" heroin and smuggled over the U.S. border.

"If it's a good year, the farmers can earn more than they can by planting maize," said Isidro Baldenegro, a Tarahumara activist who won a prestigious Goldman Environmental Prize this year for his efforts to protect the forest communities.

"But if the army goes in, then they lose the crop and they don't even have the maize left to eat," he added.

Baldenegro, whose father was killed by an unknown gunman in 1986, has an armed police escort when he travels in the mountainous region after being harassed by powerful and well-connected drug loggers.

He was jailed on false charges of arms and drug possession in 2003, before being released 15 months later following pressure from international organizations including Amnesty International.

TRADITIONS UNDER THREAT

Mexican drug gangs are growing increasingly violent, and authorities say they have killed more than 1,000 people since the start of 2005 in a war for control of the lucrative trade in cocaine, marijuana, heroin and amphetamines worth billions of dollars in the United States.

The Sierra Madre Alliance, a nonprofit organization which supports threatened indigenous groups in the region, says the cartels' profits and networks of influence are forcing the Indians off their traditional lands.

The fall-out from the trade is also hitting tribal peoples' customs hard, filling traditional villages with guns, cash and consumer goods, while rates of drug and alcohol abuse there are starting to climb.

"There are now Tarahumara youngsters who smoke marijuana, which they never did before, and it's very common for them to get drunk when they have the money," said Baldenegro.

"They also buy loud radios and play music, which annoys people during the traditional festivals," he added.

Locals say some youngsters now play thumping accordion ballads called 'narco-corridos' honoring local drug lords, while others venerate Jesus Malverde -- the bandits' patron saint.

As the snarling chainsaws and cartel pistoleros close in on Pino Gordo, regarded as one of the last untouched Tarahumara strongholds in the sierra, Baldenegro is desperate.

"We are calling to the four winds for help," he said. "If we don't get it, there is a real danger that traditional life here will simply disappear."
 
the way it's going, "down there"

Mexican gangs force Indians to grow opium

By Tim Gaynor

Wed Dec 21, 8:12 AM ET

Mexican Indians have grown maize, worshiped nature and lived by the light of pine torches in the canyons of the western Sierra Madre mountains for centuries. But this way of life is abruptly changing.

Now armed drug gangs are forcing them to plant opium poppies and marijuana in their ancestral lands, which lie in a notorious region dubbed Mexico's 'Golden Triangle' of drug trafficking.

The rugged point where the states of Chihuahua, Durango and Sinaloa meet is home to around 90,000 Tarahumara, Tepehuan, Pima and Guarijio Indians, around half of whom are getting caught up -- only a few of them willingly -- in the spiraling trade, community leaders say.

The vulnerable groups live in log cabins or caves hewn from the rock of the plunging mile-deep canyons. Speaking in a consonant-rich dialect, they live by planting maize and beans and raising goats in a precarious hand-to-mouth existence.

Since the 1970s, tribal activists say at least 40 indigenous leaders have been gunned down by the chainsaw-wielding loggers and drug planters, in a conflict that is little known in the rest of Mexico.

The problem has recently become so bad that it is reaching even far-flung villages like Pino Gordo, a highly traditional Tarahumara Indian community watched over by peyote-chewing shamans, some 50 miles (80-km) from the nearest road.

"Outsiders are coming in and cutting down our oak and pine trees without our permission," the community's traditional leader Prudencio Ramos said in broken Spanish.

"They walk among us with guns and sow marijuana and poppies, and people are afraid," he added.

DRUGS, GUNS AND CHAINSAWS

While home to indigenous groups, the rugged tri-state area is also the cradle of the Mexican drug trade, where Chinese settlers first came in the 19th century to grow opium poppies for morphine-based painkillers sold in the United States.

Now, locals say traffickers are pushing ever deeper into the labyrinthian canyons of the Sierra, felling the old growth forests and planting illegal drug crops away from the vigilant gaze of the Mexican army, who set up road blocks in the area.

"The traffickers look for the most out-of-the-way places to plant marijuana and poppies ... and these are precisely the areas where the indigenous groups live," said Ramon Castellano, a local agricultural consultant of mixed Pima Indian descent.

They force some Stetson-wearing Indian farmers to plant marijuana and poppies at gun point. Others accept seeds, money and provisions from the traffickers in a bid to squeeze a few extra pesos from their marginal lands.

Toward harvest time in March and April, locals say burly cartel minders with assault rifles and two-way radios watch over the pockets of opium poppy blooms, which are transformed into increasingly pure "black tar" heroin and smuggled over the U.S. border.

"If it's a good year, the farmers can earn more than they can by planting maize," said Isidro Baldenegro, a Tarahumara activist who won a prestigious Goldman Environmental Prize this year for his efforts to protect the forest communities.

"But if the army goes in, then they lose the crop and they don't even have the maize left to eat," he added.

Baldenegro, whose father was killed by an unknown gunman in 1986, has an armed police escort when he travels in the mountainous region after being harassed by powerful and well-connected drug loggers.

He was jailed on false charges of arms and drug possession in 2003, before being released 15 months later following pressure from international organizations including Amnesty International.

TRADITIONS UNDER THREAT

Mexican drug gangs are growing increasingly violent, and authorities say they have killed more than 1,000 people since the start of 2005 in a war for control of the lucrative trade in cocaine, marijuana, heroin and amphetamines worth billions of dollars in the United States.

The Sierra Madre Alliance, a nonprofit organization which supports threatened indigenous groups in the region, says the cartels' profits and networks of influence are forcing the Indians off their traditional lands.

The fall-out from the trade is also hitting tribal peoples' customs hard, filling traditional villages with guns, cash and consumer goods, while rates of drug and alcohol abuse there are starting to climb.

"There are now Tarahumara youngsters who smoke marijuana, which they never did before, and it's very common for them to get drunk when they have the money," said Baldenegro.

"They also buy loud radios and play music, which annoys people during the traditional festivals," he added.

Locals say some youngsters now play thumping accordion ballads called 'narco-corridos' honoring local drug lords, while others venerate Jesus Malverde -- the bandits' patron saint.

As the snarling chainsaws and cartel pistoleros close in on Pino Gordo, regarded as one of the last untouched Tarahumara strongholds in the sierra, Baldenegro is desperate.

"We are calling to the four winds for help," he said. "If we don't get it, there is a real danger that traditional life here will simply disappear."
 
"Thumping narco-accordian ballads"? I have some brand new nightmare material.
Biker:uhoh:
 
Biker said:
"Thumping narco-accordian ballads"? I have some brand new nightmare material.

Guess you never heard of Humpaa music (fusion of punk with polka). Quite the rage in Finland now, and sneaking out to other nations.
 
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