My ffl says no more Buds Gun Shop transfers

[Nuclear]

Overhead is there, whether you take transfers or sell existing inventory (or are just sitting around making no money), that's why it is called overhead.

I do try to buy locally, and I am much more likely to buy something if I can pick it up and be seduced by it, but I have bought over the internet because either the local shops don't carry what I want, or they are charging 30% more than I can buy it over the internet including the shipping and transfer fee!

 

[Sgt_R]

My local shops either won't do transfers at all, or want to charge outrageous prices for them ($45-50). On top of that, the mark-up in some of my local shops is absolutely insane (used Mossberg 500 cruiser $450, NIB Glock 19 Gen 3 w/ night sights $700, etc., and I wish I was joking).

As far as I'm concerned, this is the same as flat out telling me that they don't want my business. There's one place in town that I'll buy ammo from, because their prices are reasonable. For everything else, I drive an hour out of my way to give my money to someone who deserves it.

R

 

[evan price]

OK, so the FFL buys the gun himself from somewhere- and then it has to be logged into his bound book. He has to "Open package, sign for package, throw away empty package, be responsible for the package, secure documents for package, yada yada"...When he sells the gun he has to do the 4473 & NICS check anyway.

$35 for half an hour's work seems good to me, especially if he'd have to do it anyway. It's called "Cost of doing business"...but no inventory taxes, no carrying a gun on your inventory for weeks or months waiting for it to sell. Guaranteed $70 an hour income for doing nothing more than your job. I have no pity for FFLs who won't do transfers from Buds or anywhere else simply because it's "Too much work and not enough money"...

Marking up $300 guns to $499 won't fly anymore. Business is work. If you can't make money doing transfers, FINE. Don't do transfers. People will find someone else. And there's another reason not to bother visiting your store.

How much do you spend in advertising to bring customers in to your business? Wouldn't it make more sense to have a means by which customers PAY YOU to come into your business? Businesses do this all the time, they are called "Loss Leaders", a mark-down or advertised price that's low to persuade people to come into the business and buy things that are not on sale.

There's two FFLs I know who won't refuse transfers, but they instead charge absurb prices- one of them $75 plus 10% of the purchase price, one charges a flat $150. Go figure, they don't do transfers much. And I personally don't shop there because they like to charge more than MSRP on most of their new guns and darn near new price for used.

I use a small local shop that's a couple miles from me. I buy other stuff from them from time to time. And they only charge $35. Now, the only stuff I buy anymore is old guns, and if I got my C&R I might not need transfers anymore. I just don't see 5-screw long-action S&Ws sitting in the local gun cases anymore so they get found on Gunbroker. I'm not the kind of buyer who wants things that can be ordered from the distributor's catalog.

 

[Bubba613]

I love people telling me how to run my business.

I won't do transfers from Bud's. I didnt get into this business to be a shipping clerk. And Bud's business model will destroy the retail industry. People who see guns merely as commodities and want price price price will end up with no one to do transfers. People bemoan the loss of the LGS (and some of them deserve to go out of business) but then make guns commodities and pretty much insure it.

 

[WardenWolf]

Here's the thing: an FFL transfer fee is pure profit for a gun shop. They don't have to pay for the item, and they don't have to pay to ship it. All they have to do is receive it along with all the other items they receive each day, call you, and run the paperwork. They would have to do this same paperwork even if you bought it directly from them, but in this case they're just pocketing money for about 5 minutes of their time.

If local gun stores weren't a total ripoff, and actually carried the things I want, I'd gladly buy from them. However, many of us have very specific wants and needs that are not covered in the general selection of your average gun store. Fact of the matter is, though, when I can pay shipping cost plus FFL transfer fee, get the exact item I want, and still come out far ahead of the local gun store's pricing, where do you think I'm going to buy it?

 

[Bubba613]

f local gun stores weren't a total ripoff, and actually carried the things I want, I'd gladly buy from them

Not too many stores sell things for free.

 

[Deanimator]

I don't blame you for wanting to get a deal and buy from Buds, but do you actually spend any money with this FFL besides the transfer fees, for stuff you buy from Buds, etc? ( A lot of people don't) If not, he isn't making any money dealing with you and is probably making a smart business decision. A guy has to make a living, and he didn't get his FFL to loose money just doing transfers. The good news is you just need to go down the street to work with a someone who will play tat game. Might be worth your while to spend some real cash with him to keep the transfer relationship going. Just a thought.

I buy guns mailorder through FFLs precisely because local stores DON'T have what I want and generally aren't too motivated to get anything that I do want. I've found that in the Cleveland area, businesses in general (never mind gun stores) are "minimal effort". They tend to have the same boring stuff. They get what's easy to get and charge premium (and sometimes insane) prices for it. If you haven't got what I want and won't order it, don't expect me to just settle for whatever you've got lying around or can easily get. This attitude is exemplified by the restaurant who brought me sangria when they were out of burgundy because "they're both red".

Sorry, give me what I WANT or do without my money.

 

[Deanimator]

Not too many stores sell things for free.

Around here, not too many stores have what I want. Of course they sometimes have what I DON'T want for astonishing prices, like the store (now closed) in Cleveland that wanted more for a used Taurus PT-99 than most people wanted for a new Beretta 92.

 

[Double Vision]

I have never ordered a gun online, even though prices here are pretty darned steep.

Simply because I *like* walking into a gunshop. and i *like* the people that work there. and I *like* having a gunshop around. Call me odd. Were I a gun dealer, I would try to reach a certain price, but on the flipside ... I'd also expect something back for running a gunstore, letting people handle guns, talking guns ... preferably money.

Same here. If my LGS goes under my options become limited. I'll pay a couple of dollars more because ot that.

 

[Hunterdad]

Just do what one of my locaal FFL's do and charge $75 for a transfer.

 

[BeerSleeper]

Why don't the guys who insist they "aren't making enough money" on transfers just charge more for a transfer? I can understand if they are not willing to do it for $25, but that does not have to mean not to do it at all. If you're not willing to do it for $25, then do it for $50, or whatever cost you think is fair. It's a free market, set your price where you want it, and customers are free to take it or leave it.

 

[stonecutter2]

Seriously, it isn't, or at least not nearly $35 bucks!

He has an annual FFL fee to pay.
He has insurance it pay, on himself, his employees, and his business.
He has taxes to pay, local & state sales tax, property tax, inventory tax, income tax, plus a few others.

Then there is wages, Social Security, unemployment insurance, sick time, and other expenses on any employees.

And lets not forget rent on the building.

All so you can go into his store and coon-finger the guns, then undercut him by buying the gun from Bud's!

Then expect him to pay his phone bill so he can call the ATF and do your background check to give you the gun?

And then keep your record in his ATF "bound book" for the rest of the years he can manage to stay in business?

Mercy! Mercy! Mercy!
The scoundrel really stuck it too you didn't he!!

rc

If the gun shop only did one transfer per year, it would cost like $200,000 or something. The idea is that because they're doing so many, they only have to charge X amount, which gives the shop a fair income, and charges the customer a fair price.

 

[natman]

To all the guys who think an FFL is getting rich charging $35 for a transfer.

Don't just sit there, take advantage of this gold mine. Get a storefront, pay rent, pay utilities, pay taxes, pay insurance, etc, etc, etc and undercut the greedy SOB. See how long that lasts.

--------------

Back to the original topic, which before this became another FFL fee whine tasting, was drop shipping from Bud's. I can see how the OP's dealer might be concerned, depending on how the paperwork is handled. The FFL has to login the gun, but he can't very well log it in as having come from Bud's - Bud's may never have had possession of it.

Now I'm sure that Bud's has worked all this out, but it is a bit unusual. And FFL dealers don't do unusual very well.

 

[jrdolall]

The local FFL I use has a storefront and sells about 500 guns per year. Mostly junk that he buys super cheap. He does transfers for $20. I think he has the business more for a tax write off than anything else. There is always a new F250 sitting out front with the name of the business prominently dislayed and he is open 3 days a week.

 

[WVleo]

Last gun I bought new I went to the LGS with a On-line quote already in hand and asked if they could get Me the gun. Dealer quoted Me $70 more than the total cost with shipping and transfer fee. I remarked I could get it at XXX cost on-line ( as I had used this shop to ship a firearm to a Son in Fla. and had one transfered to Me from Him ) . He went to His phone for a minute or 2 and said He could match the price. First one came in the wrong configuration , but 1 week later He had the correct model that I happily purchased. He did end up putting the incorrect model in His showcase at the original price He quoted Me and it sold in a week. So He ends up with both sales. A LGS is in business to make money and the smart ones do, but I could care less if He stays in business or not ( thats His burden, not mine ) I care about My finances and keeping as much of mine in My pocket as possible. His shop is growing as He knows how to work with both educated buyers and those who come in off the street with no knowledge of internet pricing. I don't expect Him to educate Me on the cost of a firearm, but do want to work with a good businessman who knows there is more than 1 way to approach business. I've been to many LGS who thought there inventory was Gold and it sits, they blame there cheap customers LOL LOL.......WVleo

 

[R.W.Dale]

Have you ever heard of a Gunshop refuse to sell ammunition that would be used in a gun that was purchased at wal mart?

NO of course not. That would be stupid after all shops are in place to make money even if its only a few bucks.

AND YET a shop refusing to do transfers is essentially doing just that on a transaction with a much higher profit margin than a box of 30/06 bullets.

I could somewhat see refusing transfers if you're so busy that you're staying late every day to file them. If not you're simply turning away paying customers over your indignation that they didn't buy from YOU!

You wont stay in business much longer in this day and age doing that. The internet has eliminated your monopoly on a community simply based on distance.

posted via tapatalk using android.

 

[SleazyRider]

My local Ginder Mountain wants $75.00 for a transfer. The store doesn't seem to be doing particularly well.

Seems that some of us need to review the mechanics of "free enterprise."

 

[Bubbles]

Back to the original topic, which before this became another FFL fee whine tasting, was drop shipping from Bud's. I can see how the OP's dealer might be concerned, depending on how the paperwork is handled. The FFL has to login the gun, but he can't very well log it in as having come from Bud's - Bud's may never have had possession of it.

Now I'm sure that Bud's has worked all this out, but it is a bit unusual. And FFL dealers don't do unusual very well.

Not unusual at all, the included paperwork states that the gun came from Sports South, whose FFL # is x-xx-xxx-xx-xxxxx. No problem logging it into the A&D book.

We do transfers from Bud's all day. I don't mind as it drives people to the shop - people who often use our other, high-$ services. Other than maintaining a web site and keeping business cards on-hand, both of which are pretty minimal costs, we have more work than we have time and we haven't had to pay for advertising.

 

[drsfmd]

First, I find it ironic that the people who complain loudest are those without an FFL, and those who are willing to support them are the kitchen table FFL's who don't have a storefront or staff to pay. You guys don't get it... places like Bud's are RUINING the gun business, and they will eventually put all of your local gun shops out of business.

I'm not saying that you have to pay MSRP on everything, but can you really expect your LGS to markup 1 or 2 percent and be able to keep the doors open? Transfers just don't pay the bills. Around our place, transfers are a privilidge for good customers, and we will only accept them on used items or new things that we don't carry (but if we have one sitting in a display case or in a rack, we don't be accepting your transfer on the same item...)

Why is this? People want good deals. Shop A only makes $10 per gun but sells 200 per week. Shop b makes 35-100 per gun but only sells maybe 5 per week.

Both those shops will be gone in short order. Unless they are selling TONS of ammo and accessories, they aren't making enough to cover insurance and taxes, much less pay a staff, keep new inventory coming in, etc...

 

[macadore]

I do my transfers at the ranged where I shoot. I pick up the gun and shoot it while I'm there. Everyone wins.

 

[mgmorden]

You guys don't get it... places like Bud's are RUINING the gun business, and they will eventually put all of your local gun shops out of business.

That's a matter of opinion. I think it's actually the LGS's that don't get it. The firearms business was ruined for a long time. Online sales have gone a long way to fix it. I personally couldn't care less if the local shops that won't adapt go out of business.

The free market is a cut-throat world. Customers will do what they can do get the cheapest possible price with the least amount of effort. Retailers will either provide that price, or shift their focus area to another offering which is significantly attractive to the customer from either a monetary standpoint or is significantly more convenient. Suggesting that the customer pay more than necessary just so that a shop can keep their doors open amounts to little more than begging.

I don't see how people expect to convince people by warning that their actions will cause the demise of a business model that they currently don't support. Yes if you don't buy guns locally then the local shops will go out out business . . . so that we can continue to not buy guns locally. What a shame.

 

[esquare]

I used to think that it was good to support the LGS. Then I looked around at a bunch of them near me. Some didn't take transfers and wouldn't order anything at reasonable prices. One was asking $350 for a used rossi 38 that sells new at Academy for $270 down the road. The best shop I could find was a tiny little shop that had almost no inventory. I went in and asked if they could get me x. He went over to his computer, pulled up buds and added $50 to the price.

I went home, ordered from buds and paid his $35 transfer fee. He didn't care as he didn't have to plunk down the capital for the order - I did.

The truth is that gun shops have a government mandated competitive advantage in the marketplace - we MUST use them to get our guns one way or another. Frankly, this seems like it props up a lot of stores that the market would have closed down a long time ago and replaced with stores run by better business people who could complete with online sales.

So, we all suffer, the same way we all suffer when government mandates create a competitive advantage for any sector in the economy.

If those with FFLs feel so upset about having to deal with buds transfers, would you support legislation that would allow them to ship directly to CCW holders? I mean, what value is the FFL adding anyway if it's going to someone who's already vetted?

 

[Geneseo1911]

My dealer tells me that he makes about the same money on a transfer as he does on a gun he orders or carries himself. He also said he'd just as soon do the transfer and not have to use his own capital to acquire the gun.

If I want something specific, he'll call his distributors and get a price. Sometimes he can beat the internet, sometimes he can't, but he's just as happy either way.

And the things he has in stock are priced pretty close to the internet price + his transfer charge. It's almost like he has the ability to use the internet to check prices. Amazing.

Before all the grumpy FFL's on here tell me he's going to go out of business, he just expanded and hired another helper.

 

[NinjaFeint]

I have a bunch of local stores that do transfers but one of them will not do Bud's, seems he's had issues with them.

That said, my local stores are close enough to bud's price, I just buy there anyway.

 

[esquare]

And about supporting the local gun stores, NONE of the stores around me carry any reasonable selection of holsters, belts, grips, accessories, books, etc. None do custom gunsmithing at any level. None do engraving. With holsters alone, they could be adding $50 profit to most pistol sales they make easily. $75 on a trigger job for each revolver sold, etc. I have a feeling this is the norm, not the exception.