I used to have them shipped to an FFL gunstore in Roanoke. Last time I did, the owner was really hateful and almost denied me picking it up. I told them I never had an issue before. He started on this "you need to buy locally", blah, blah, blah rant. I understand his point but I wasn't going to drop another $125 for the same gun just to appease him.
My ffl says no more Buds Gun Shop transfers
- Thread starter gfpd707
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And you'll have no where to get those transfers from. And no where to buy ammo on short notice (last time I checked, Walmart only stocks a few calibers). And no where to get a bore sighting done on that new rifle (and complain about spending $10 for the service).
If you don't like the prices at your LGS, DON'T GO THERE... but also don't ask him to cut his own throat to make a pittance off of you.
Gun guys are a funny bunch... on another forum, guys were complaining that the wife of a LGS owner drove a BMW, and therefore the guy must be ripping them off... apparently if my truck isn't more beat up than your truck, I'm cheating you... *sigh*
Around here, the shops that want to charge the highest prices are still in the dingy little building on the corner lot, with a couple of hangers on holding up the gun cases. The business owners that understood the concept of volume sales, whether it be transfers, ammo, etc now have sizeable establishments selling clothes, boots, safes,boats, fishing equipment, ie: all sorts of outdoor related sporting goods and are doing very well.
Three of them that I know of formed/joined a buyer's cooperative so that they get their merchandise at a less expensive cost basis than their competitors due to their volume. These business owner's are accumulating wealth and prosperity a little at a time from LOTS of REPEAT customers instead of trying to hit a homerun off a couple folks. They understand that a repeat customer can become a customer for life as opposed to the person who buys at a LGS, finds out that he/she overpaid by enough money that they are mad at themselves for being taken advantage of and then vowing to never return there again.
Additionally, figure out the per hour rate of doing transfers. A LGS that is transfer friendly pays 1 hour of the hourly wage of 1 employee every time a transfer is done, with a little left over. So if total expenditure of time is 15 even 20 minutes to do recieve the package, write some figures in a book, make a phone call, finalize the transfer, that still leaves 40 minutes to generate a sale whose profit is then unencumbered from wages. They just don't get it that a transfer is a service they are selling. Plus there doesn't have to be any money invested to have it set in the display case for months/years on end until finally, in order to recoup the money, it is priced where it should have been and finally sells. The bad thing is that money has been tied up and unuseable, instead of generating income.
Three of them that I know of formed/joined a buyer's cooperative so that they get their merchandise at a less expensive cost basis than their competitors due to their volume. These business owner's are accumulating wealth and prosperity a little at a time from LOTS of REPEAT customers instead of trying to hit a homerun off a couple folks. They understand that a repeat customer can become a customer for life as opposed to the person who buys at a LGS, finds out that he/she overpaid by enough money that they are mad at themselves for being taken advantage of and then vowing to never return there again.
Additionally, figure out the per hour rate of doing transfers. A LGS that is transfer friendly pays 1 hour of the hourly wage of 1 employee every time a transfer is done, with a little left over. So if total expenditure of time is 15 even 20 minutes to do recieve the package, write some figures in a book, make a phone call, finalize the transfer, that still leaves 40 minutes to generate a sale whose profit is then unencumbered from wages. They just don't get it that a transfer is a service they are selling. Plus there doesn't have to be any money invested to have it set in the display case for months/years on end until finally, in order to recoup the money, it is priced where it should have been and finally sells. The bad thing is that money has been tied up and unuseable, instead of generating income.
And thatr right there is the problem. People are only smart enough to compare two numbers and decide which one is higher. They are in no way equipped to figure out which deal offers better value. Some people don't see the distinction.
The LGS ought to be adding value through a string of things. I know mine does. If they don't they deserve to go out of business.
If you want to see what online retailing does, check out your local bookshop. Oops, the local bookshop, where you used to browse for hours, is gone. The owner who knew every one of the 13k books in inventory is a WalMart greeter today.
That doesnt include the costs to states of lost tax revenue. One of my big issues with transfers is not the price--I can typically match the price or do better. My issue is the customer won't pay the sales tax and doesn't figure it in making comparisons.
You grossly underestimate the time that it takes. Moreover, making an hour worth wages by having my employee do an hour worth of work means ZERO PROFIT. If my sales guy can't at least TRIPLE his hourly wage in profit for the store, we don't make any money...
Of course, they still owe that tax in the form of a "use tax" in most (all?) states, but given the opportunity, they cheat on their taxes and duck paying that one.
Another pile on the LGS thread. Mine said he was going to start charging $100 for Buds and CDNN transfers. His store his decision. A pawn shop close to my office charges $25 and doesn't give me any grief.
As far as the overhead argument goes, I seem a little lost. You cannot save your time on a shelf, just like hotels cannot keep an inventory of rooms not rented. That's why hotels will now rent a room for a little about their basic costs (cleaning, electricity, supplies, etc) through Priceline or one of the others instead of letting it sit vacant overnight. If you are busy in your gun store, doing whatever it takes to make your store profitable then you could potentially be losing money dealing with us and our $35 transfers. But if you're just kicked up on a stool hanging out then $35 is $35.
But once again, it's your store and it's my money.
As far as the overhead argument goes, I seem a little lost. You cannot save your time on a shelf, just like hotels cannot keep an inventory of rooms not rented. That's why hotels will now rent a room for a little about their basic costs (cleaning, electricity, supplies, etc) through Priceline or one of the others instead of letting it sit vacant overnight. If you are busy in your gun store, doing whatever it takes to make your store profitable then you could potentially be losing money dealing with us and our $35 transfers. But if you're just kicked up on a stool hanging out then $35 is $35.
But once again, it's your store and it's my money.
mgmorden
Member
As already stated - the shop I use for transfers SPECIALIZES in transfers. Its what they do, and they're doing quite well in it. Rather than whining about an inevitable change in the market - they adapted.
Another big shop in the area (who I know of pretty much no one who buys actual guns from them) opened a very sucessful indoor range. They hold CWP training classes there on a near weekly basis and also do other promotional events throughout the week (shooting classes specifically for women, or small competitions).
They figured out something that works and will make them money. Other shops have to do the same. The business model of hawking identical guns as what the customer can get online for $50-100 less even after shipping and transfer is simply no more.
mgmorden
Member
You mean a guy who was selling a service that people didn't want to pay a premium for went under? I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you!
Now, realistically - a lot of the smart shop owners have started selling coffee instead of books. People don't want to buy the books, but they do still want the social interaction of going, hanging out, and feeling like part of the group. Enter an alternate business model.
The public doesn't owe anyone the ability to stay in business. They will get what they want as efficiently as possible. It's the onus of the business owner to provide something the public wants at a price they're willing to pay. Buds is doing that. Shops that can't compete against Buds should find a way to make money WITH Buds, or at least in spite of them.
When I was a boy, there used to be “mom and pop” stores on nearly every block of our small town. Where are they now? Supermarkets came in and they went out of business. Milk man you say? - Gone!
Sears used to be the biggest retailer. It’s ironic that K-Mart bought them out and the holding company is barely hanging on. Then there’s Grants, Montgomery Wards, G C Murphy, and a plethora of others – all out of business.
It used to be manufacturers would dictate its production runs to its retailers. Now Wal-Mart dictates to the manufacturers when it wants production runs.
It’s called capitalism. Business changes as do business models. First off, you have to be in the right business. Then as the model changes, you must adapt and look for opportunities to maximize profit and minimize cost; those that do not, fail.
The American consumer owes the business owner nothing. It’s the business owner’s duty to earn the consumer’s business.
I would venture to say selling firearms is a thriving business in America. What business model the LGS executes will have a lot to do with their success or failure in this Internet age.
Sears used to be the biggest retailer. It’s ironic that K-Mart bought them out and the holding company is barely hanging on. Then there’s Grants, Montgomery Wards, G C Murphy, and a plethora of others – all out of business.
It used to be manufacturers would dictate its production runs to its retailers. Now Wal-Mart dictates to the manufacturers when it wants production runs.
It’s called capitalism. Business changes as do business models. First off, you have to be in the right business. Then as the model changes, you must adapt and look for opportunities to maximize profit and minimize cost; those that do not, fail.
The American consumer owes the business owner nothing. It’s the business owner’s duty to earn the consumer’s business.
I would venture to say selling firearms is a thriving business in America. What business model the LGS executes will have a lot to do with their success or failure in this Internet age.
Bubbles
Member
I fully expect that will change over the next 5 years as other states besides CA and WA figure out that they can snatch that revenue stream without having to vote to raise tax rates. There are quite a few FFL's quietly lobbying for it in an attempt to improve their own competitiveness compared to the online sellers.
I disagree that drop-shipping is ruining the gun business. It's widely used in almost every other industry - look at Amazon as an example. I could buy food, clothing, toys, games, electronics, car parts - and yet I'll still shop at my local stores for a lot, especially high-end items.
Yes, please make a specific exemption in the law for Buds to be able to ship guns directly to CCW holders.
Seriously... the examples that you guys come up with are positively specious.
Come on now - it's entirely feasible to state that the federal law could be changed so that FFLs (not just buds) could ship directly to a CCW holder's address with proof of a current license and verification by the issuing agency. Would you support that?
macadore
Member
Actually, it's not. At one time nearly anyone could get an ffl. IIRC, that changed under Clinton. I would support a national ccw that would let anyone with one of those buy and carry any weapon one could conceal. That would include smsgs. sbrs, sbs, short swords, clubs and so on. I realize this would cause heart failure among the anti-gun crowd. Why is this specious? Gun control was specious at one time. Getting rid of it is no more specious.
It's entirely feasible that the COngress will simply repeal the GCA. And the NFA along with it.
Personally it wouldn't bother me. I would still have a viable business because I dont sell on price. If people want to "do research" online and pay lots of money they don't have to in order to get something that won't work for them and without any support after the sale that's fine with me.
Personally it wouldn't bother me. I would still have a viable business because I dont sell on price. If people want to "do research" online and pay lots of money they don't have to in order to get something that won't work for them and without any support after the sale that's fine with me.
mgmorden
Member
Either that or modify the C&R license to something more akin to a "Personal FFL". Let people receive shipments directly with the same bookkeeping requirements, but with the same restrictions on engaging in business. Afterall there's nothing about the age of most C&R firearms that makes them any less deadly or dangerous.
jay21
Member
Anyone who can legally own a firearms can get an FFL. The "clinton" restrictions are internet rumor for the most part. FFL's are "shall issue" not "may issue." If you comply with state and local laws and can demonstrate a "profit motive" you will be issued your FFL. Local laws are usually the hardest part, the ATF regs for getting one are pretty simple.
Armed012002
Member.
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Why don't you ask your local gun shop to setup some kind of program where you buy x amount of merchandise in the store and, in return, receive a "firearm transfer voucher".
Seems like a great idea to me. It would be great if I could buy $25 to $50 in reloading supplies rather than paying some guy the same amount of money for filling out paperwork.
Seems like a great idea to me. It would be great if I could buy $25 to $50 in reloading supplies rather than paying some guy the same amount of money for filling out paperwork.
My LGS doesn't charge a transfer fee for anyone and I still never order online because his prices are better 90% of the time and the other 10% he is close enough that I don't mind spending a few bucks extra going through him.
He has a small profit margin on the guns he sells but because his prices are so good he has a very high volume. That doesn't work for every gun shop but I can't complain
He has a small profit margin on the guns he sells but because his prices are so good he has a very high volume. That doesn't work for every gun shop but I can't complain
That's an even worse deal for the dealer! He's making just a few dollars TOPS on a $25 dollar purchase, and you want a free transfer voucher with that? Sheesh...
Perhaps for every $2500 you spend or something like that, but for $25? Get real...
My local FFL charges $0 for FFL transfers.
So far, I've transferred two guns through him; same gun actually, once from the seller, once from S&W. Every time I go in there I buy either .22 WRM or .44 Special ammo. I've also bought one rifle (Savage 93F in .22 WRM). Great guy to do business with and he's a Bud's preferred FFL dealer. He's in north Alabama in Athens, if you're interested in his name, PM me.
The other big gun shop in the area (LP&P) won't do Bud's transfers. No problem, they won't get my business either.
My .02.
So far, I've transferred two guns through him; same gun actually, once from the seller, once from S&W. Every time I go in there I buy either .22 WRM or .44 Special ammo. I've also bought one rifle (Savage 93F in .22 WRM). Great guy to do business with and he's a Bud's preferred FFL dealer. He's in north Alabama in Athens, if you're interested in his name, PM me.
The other big gun shop in the area (LP&P) won't do Bud's transfers. No problem, they won't get my business either.
My .02.
dogtown tom
Member
Getting back to the OP's question....
2. Receiving a gun purchased from Buds, drop shipped by a distributor is no different than any other transfer he has ever done.
3. Your dealer is an idiot.
Now for my daily rant.....
All the dealers whining about Bud's destroying the retail gun business are whiners, pure and simple. Before the GCA '68 gave us the FFL system, ANYONE could buy and sell guns without any need for a license. Mail order commerce in firearms was THE model in pre '68 America, EVERY major retailer like Sears, JC Penneys carried guns ans did the hardware store in every town.....But you're bitching about Bud's,
You've enjoyed a near monopoly since 1968, yet whine about a business model that you could do yourself. Seems more like jealousy than a true concern for a healthy gun industry.
Dealers who got fat and happy for years and thought they could continue to sell guns at MSRP to an unsuspecting public will watch their business model wither and die if they don't adapt.
You whine about WalMart- then sell what WalMart doesn't. Wally don't sell handguns or 7.65 Argentine, so why don't you?
You whine about Bud's- then adopt their business model or beat their pricing. No one is stopping you.
You whine about low profit margins- yet you sneer at $35 transfers (pure gravy, because you invest the same amount of time as a gun you stocked, yet you have $0.00 of YOUR money tied up in that gun.
You whine about a transfer taking thirty minutes- good grief, if it takes you half an hour per customer it isn't Bud's fault....its your own.
You whine about folks not supporting the local gun store- then give me a reason. My local gun store doesn't automatically get my $$$ as if it is their birthright....the LGS isn't on welfare and isnt entitled to my $$$ any more than any other business in the country.
I don't stock guns, I do transfers. The local gun stores could put me out of business tomorrow if they had a reasonable transfer fee and were a little more customer friendly. Since they don't and aren't....I do over a hundred transfers each month. Thats one hundred gun sales or transfers that I'M taking away from them each month....and I'm not the only guy in town doing transfers.
End of rant...it lunch time.
1. Your dealer is an idiot.
2. Receiving a gun purchased from Buds, drop shipped by a distributor is no different than any other transfer he has ever done.
3. Your dealer is an idiot.
Now for my daily rant.....
All the dealers whining about Bud's destroying the retail gun business are whiners, pure and simple. Before the GCA '68 gave us the FFL system, ANYONE could buy and sell guns without any need for a license. Mail order commerce in firearms was THE model in pre '68 America, EVERY major retailer like Sears, JC Penneys carried guns ans did the hardware store in every town.....But you're bitching about Bud's,
You've enjoyed a near monopoly since 1968, yet whine about a business model that you could do yourself. Seems more like jealousy than a true concern for a healthy gun industry.
Dealers who got fat and happy for years and thought they could continue to sell guns at MSRP to an unsuspecting public will watch their business model wither and die if they don't adapt.
You whine about WalMart- then sell what WalMart doesn't. Wally don't sell handguns or 7.65 Argentine, so why don't you?
You whine about Bud's- then adopt their business model or beat their pricing. No one is stopping you.
You whine about low profit margins- yet you sneer at $35 transfers (pure gravy, because you invest the same amount of time as a gun you stocked, yet you have $0.00 of YOUR money tied up in that gun.
You whine about a transfer taking thirty minutes- good grief, if it takes you half an hour per customer it isn't Bud's fault....its your own.
You whine about folks not supporting the local gun store- then give me a reason. My local gun store doesn't automatically get my $$$ as if it is their birthright....the LGS isn't on welfare and isnt entitled to my $$$ any more than any other business in the country.
I don't stock guns, I do transfers. The local gun stores could put me out of business tomorrow if they had a reasonable transfer fee and were a little more customer friendly. Since they don't and aren't....I do over a hundred transfers each month. Thats one hundred gun sales or transfers that I'M taking away from them each month....and I'm not the only guy in town doing transfers.
End of rant...it lunch time.
I was out looking for a pistol for my wife to carry yesterday and visited 3 stores, Academy and two LGS that carry a decent selection. The oldest store, has been in business in Opelika AL for about 500 years, was $50 and $80 higher on the EXACT same model S&W and Ruger revolvers than was Academy. I asked if that was the best he could do and he knocked $19 off of each. The other LGS was willing to match Academy on the S&W but did not have that model Ruger. I have never bought a firearm from Academy and the price on the sticker is the price which is okay by me since I am not a haggler at heart. I want to support all my local stores, be it fishing lures, guns, or groceries, but I absolutely will NOT pay 25% more just to keep you in business. That is why Sears, Kmart etc are dying and why so many local stores are now gone. The stores that are willing to change will survive. I want to touch and see a gun rather than order online even if it is a new gun. It is easier to walk in to the LGS, look at a gun and walk out for $400 than look online, place my order, call my FFL, wait a few days and then go pick it up for a total of $375.
How did LGS's stay open during the days when anyone could order a gun from Sears Catalogue and have it shipped directly to their door?
A transfer fee is an opportunity for the FFL to skim cream off the top of a business transaction they shouldn't be involved with in the first place.
Edit: I got scooped by dogtown who said it all much better!
A transfer fee is an opportunity for the FFL to skim cream off the top of a business transaction they shouldn't be involved with in the first place.
Edit: I got scooped by dogtown who said it all much better!
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