Negligent discharge of a different kind today. I had my gun setting on something. It was dark I was dumb didn't pay attention. Bolt was back mag in safety off. Gun managed to fall off of object safe or box hit the ground and fire as it was falling, or something triggered the release. Slam fire happened shot a hole in my wall. Was dead asleep when it happened. Almost started crying it scared me so bad. No injuries. I will never store my gun like that again. It could have easily killed a family member. Almost ready to sell my guns now. I feel like an absolute failure and like I don't deserve to own a gun. Please everyone do not make the mistake I did.
Negligent discharge today
- Thread starter Sentryau2
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Glad everyone is OK.
Now,
Would you mind telling us what kind of gun can load & fire itself from a locked open slide while falling off 'something'?
Inquiring minds want to know??
rc
Now,
Would you mind telling us what kind of gun can load & fire itself from a locked open slide while falling off 'something'?
Inquiring minds want to know??
rc
RetiredUSNChief
Member
You know...a holster is a really cool device!
Seriously, I'd be more concerned if you DIDN'T feel so strongly about what happened.
Learn some lessons here, then go forth and do better.
In your own words, what could you have done better or differently to have avoided this?
Seriously, I'd be more concerned if you DIDN'T feel so strongly about what happened.
Learn some lessons here, then go forth and do better.
In your own words, what could you have done better or differently to have avoided this?
I was going to ask if it was a semi, but I was still wondering how the firearm would fire without the trigger being impacted.
taliv, I agree that bolt back and loaded mag in is unsafe, but how would an AR fire without the trigger being touched?
taliv, I agree that bolt back and loaded mag in is unsafe, but how would an AR fire without the trigger being touched?
Thermactor
member
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I store my long guns disassembled and my handguns securely unloaded in their carry cases. 
That said, your storage technique did sound like a disaster waiting to happen and I'm glad noone was hurt.
At least store it with the bolt closed next time, please!
That said, your storage technique did sound like a disaster waiting to happen and I'm glad noone was hurt.
At least store it with the bolt closed next time, please!
here's a thread where we discussed the issue. been a few years though.
www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=728414
It does not matter what you do with the safety on an AR. The safety only keeps you from pulling the trigger. it is not a 'firing pin block'.
The AR by my bed is propped against the wall. Magazine IN, Bolt CLOSED on an EMPTY chamber.
edit: hso, it was a slam fire. the firing pin floats. perfect storm of sensitive primer, out of spec firing pin, extra energy from the fall.... who knows?
(for a demonstration of the floating firing pin, point the rifle in a safe direction, load a round by using the bolt release, then eject the round. inspect the primer and you will see a dent where it was struck by the firing pin. this is normal, as designed operation.)
www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=728414
It does not matter what you do with the safety on an AR. The safety only keeps you from pulling the trigger. it is not a 'firing pin block'.
The AR by my bed is propped against the wall. Magazine IN, Bolt CLOSED on an EMPTY chamber.
edit: hso, it was a slam fire. the firing pin floats. perfect storm of sensitive primer, out of spec firing pin, extra energy from the fall.... who knows?
(for a demonstration of the floating firing pin, point the rifle in a safe direction, load a round by using the bolt release, then eject the round. inspect the primer and you will see a dent where it was struck by the firing pin. this is normal, as designed operation.)
btw, i forgot where i heard it but i think nationwide the popo have had some noise abatement issues with AR15s stored in patrol vehicles oriented with muzzle to rear of vehicle, and a mag inserted, bolt locked open. apparently, when you slam on the brakes hard enough, the bolt will close itself, chambering a round and possibly slam firing. iirc, that resulted in some sort of vertical storage contraption
I can't post pictures from this phone. The hole is at an upward angle (it went off while falling) so it would have had to started falling slipped off the safe and fired when the stock hit the wall/floor.
Could I have weakens the primer by charging a round and then putting it back in the mag?
How do I patch bullet holes in OSB/vinyl siding?
Could I have weakens the primer by charging a round and then putting it back in the mag?
How do I patch bullet holes in OSB/vinyl siding?
General Geoff
Member
Darn floating firing pins, never cut you any slack. My condolences.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I have only had two or three slam fires in 50+ years of M-16's and civilian AR-15's.
And all of those happened within the first 6 months of when I started reloading .223 in 1972.
I was crushing primers in without removing the military primer crimp first.
Which made them extra flat and sensitive.
I don't buy the cop slamming on the brakes deal at all!
I can't think of any cop car carry where the rifle would be orientated front to back in the car.
And I think the car would have to hit a semi head on at 50 to jar the bolt catch off anyway.
No way normal acceleration & braking could do it.
rc
And all of those happened within the first 6 months of when I started reloading .223 in 1972.
I was crushing primers in without removing the military primer crimp first.
Which made them extra flat and sensitive.
I don't buy the cop slamming on the brakes deal at all!
I can't think of any cop car carry where the rifle would be orientated front to back in the car.
And I think the car would have to hit a semi head on at 50 to jar the bolt catch off anyway.
No way normal acceleration & braking could do it.
rc
Ironicaintit
Member
Sentryau2,
Just let it serve as a wake up call and dont get too down on yourself about it.
Dont store it like that and move on.
I store my M1 carbine that way. Mag in, bolt locked back. Im about to go rectify that.
Just let it serve as a wake up call and dont get too down on yourself about it.
Dont store it like that and move on.
I store my M1 carbine that way. Mag in, bolt locked back. Im about to go rectify that.
rcmodel, i think it was on the roof. also, the semi head on at 50 thing is a bit of an exaggeration. i'll wager anybody who can cycle a pump shotgun one-handed, can hold the rifle with one hand by the forearm and close the bolt with the same amount of force or probably less
edit: as you noted in the thread i linked 2 years ago, it will happen every time with no mag or with a loaded mag. an empty mag however, will hold the bolt open
edit: as you noted in the thread i linked 2 years ago, it will happen every time with no mag or with a loaded mag. an empty mag however, will hold the bolt open
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Why in the world would you do that??
It's a recipe for an accident!
If you have time in the middle of the night to reach a gun?
You have time to rack the slide and take the safety off.
rc
It's a recipe for an accident!
If you have time in the middle of the night to reach a gun?
You have time to rack the slide and take the safety off.
rc
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I was just saying, why would anyone do that??
There is no speed advantage when picking up the gun to defend yourself.
And as the OP found out.
It is an accident waiting to happen.
It will in fact slow down your response in an emergency.
If you blow your brains out picking up the short-fused gun just waiting for something to jar it wrong!!
rc
There is no speed advantage when picking up the gun to defend yourself.
And as the OP found out.
It is an accident waiting to happen.
It will in fact slow down your response in an emergency.
If you blow your brains out picking up the short-fused gun just waiting for something to jar it wrong!!
rc
No one in the family seems to be so upset. They know how careful i usually am and they insist it was the firearms fault but it was mine. I can't make any excuses for it. I'll be taking tomorrow off to fix the breaker box and walls (1 bullet hole, 1 hole from the stock)
Even if it is a "flaw" there are no accidence only negligence.
Are all semi auto rifles capable of doing this? Honestly I'm hoping after I go to sleep I'll wake up and this will all just be a bad dream.
She will be kept broken down for a while.
Even if it is a "flaw" there are no accidence only negligence.
Are all semi auto rifles capable of doing this? Honestly I'm hoping after I go to sleep I'll wake up and this will all just be a bad dream.
She will be kept broken down for a while.
rcmodel, well there is a bit of a speed advantage, as it takes longer to charge than not to charge. there's also the fact that if you don't TRAIN to charge it and take the safety off, you will probably hear a click instead of a bang after being roused out of a deep sleep at 3am by knuckleheads and forgetting.
if someone is that concerned about speed though, bolt closed on a loaded chamber and safety on is a perfectly reasonable condition to keep the rifle in (assuming no kids are wandering around).
if someone is that concerned about speed though, bolt closed on a loaded chamber and safety on is a perfectly reasonable condition to keep the rifle in (assuming no kids are wandering around).
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Firearms, ( all firearms) can be safely stored in one of three conditions.
1. Totally empty with no mag in the gun, hammer snapped, and safety on (if possible?)
2. Ready, with an empty chamber, bolt closed, safety on, and a loaded mag in the gun.
3. Cocked & locked. Mag in, bolt closed on a loaded round, safety on.
Of the three, #3 is the least safe for obvious reasons.
But for less obvious reasons?
If your house burns down, the loaded round may cook off and kill a fireman on the roof.
#2 is the only way I know to safely keep a SD gun safe at all times in the home, or anywhere else, except on duty as a cop, or on duty as a solder.
And even cops & solders don't lay guns down with the bolt locked open with a loaded mag in the gun!!!
rc
1. Totally empty with no mag in the gun, hammer snapped, and safety on (if possible?)
2. Ready, with an empty chamber, bolt closed, safety on, and a loaded mag in the gun.
3. Cocked & locked. Mag in, bolt closed on a loaded round, safety on.
Of the three, #3 is the least safe for obvious reasons.
But for less obvious reasons?
If your house burns down, the loaded round may cook off and kill a fireman on the roof.
#2 is the only way I know to safely keep a SD gun safe at all times in the home, or anywhere else, except on duty as a cop, or on duty as a solder.
And even cops & solders don't lay guns down with the bolt locked open with a loaded mag in the gun!!!
rc
gamestalker
member
Before you decide to sell your firearms, ask yourself a couple question first.
1. If you seriously think you don't possess the confidence, intellect, or skills to safely own and handle firearms, then yes, by all means, sell them and take up another less risky hobby.
2. On the other hand, if you feel you have the confidence, intellect, and ability to develop your skills in this respect, you may be a good candidate and would benefit from taking a firearm safety course to enhance your skills in this area.
Considering you aren't real clear on how this happened, or the condition of the weapon that lead to this event, you might need to take some form of firearm safety training to brush up on proper handling. We aren't born knowing everything there is to know about firearms, and there's certainly no shame in admitting you may need more training and education. The very fact that you immediately recognized that this happened due to your own actions, or inaction's, is a good indication that you are responsible enough to address the deficiencies at play here.
Glad everyone is fine, and I have every confidence that you'll make a responsible decision, a decision that only you can make.
GS
1. If you seriously think you don't possess the confidence, intellect, or skills to safely own and handle firearms, then yes, by all means, sell them and take up another less risky hobby.
2. On the other hand, if you feel you have the confidence, intellect, and ability to develop your skills in this respect, you may be a good candidate and would benefit from taking a firearm safety course to enhance your skills in this area.
Considering you aren't real clear on how this happened, or the condition of the weapon that lead to this event, you might need to take some form of firearm safety training to brush up on proper handling. We aren't born knowing everything there is to know about firearms, and there's certainly no shame in admitting you may need more training and education. The very fact that you immediately recognized that this happened due to your own actions, or inaction's, is a good indication that you are responsible enough to address the deficiencies at play here.
Glad everyone is fine, and I have every confidence that you'll make a responsible decision, a decision that only you can make.
GS
I ignorantly thought bolt open safety on was safer than bolt closed. Several people have told me "ar15s cannot slam fire unless its a defaulty gun" Well aparantly they CAN. I just tested the gun it can slam fire with the safety being on. So I must have left the safety on the gun because it was on when I picked it up and yet it prevented nothing.
gamestalker
member
Might be that the combination of the bolt slamming closed, along with the impact of hitting the floor, created enough inertia to cause the SF?
GS
GS
I am glad that everyone is OK. I usually keep my firearms with mags loaded, slide/bolt closed and chamber empty. I figure if I don't have enough time to chamber a round it is probably already to late to deploy my firearm. I also keep my revolver on an empty hole as well. I hope to never have an nd, but I have seen it happen to some very safe and cautious people before. Keep your head up. You are doing the right thing by admitting your fault and reminding others to be safe.
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