Negligent discharge today

[taliv]

the hammer never moved. the firing pin floats and hit the primer hard enough to go bang, without the hammer ever touching the firing pin.

look inside and study the trigger mechanism. the safety does ONE THING. it prevents the trigger itself from moving more than a few degrees. it does not touch the hammer, firing pin, or other parts


also, i totally agree with the 4 rules approach, but that only applies to when you are handling the gun. when it's stored, or on a shelf or something, you have to understand the details of the gun itself to understand what is "safe" and "not safe".

that is one reason california, despite a lot of whining from us, makes pistol mfg certify their guns are drop safe. lots of bolt gun triggers are bad enough (lack safe amount of sear engagement) that jarring them will set the gun off. don't even get me started on open bolt full auto sub guns

know your gun


btw, one more condition to consider is the use of a chamber flag. basically, chamber flag inserted, bolt closed on the flag, hot magazine inserted. that requires you to cycle the bolt and remove the flag. it takes an extra step but gives you a higher degree of confidence that there is not a round in the chamber when the gun is just standing against the wall unattended

 

[ny32182]

As mentioned, with the rarity of slamfires in most ARs, it is possible that the ammo you have in there now is particularly susceptible for some reason; maybe super soft or incorrectly seated primers or something.

Therefore I would NOT chamber any more of that ammo in the house (for this reason I don't make a habit of chambering ARs at home in general) lest you see a repeat performance.

I'd take it to the range, shoot up the rest of it, and then get some M193 or something else milspec to use in the future.

 

[ny32182]

Also inspect the firing pin and make sure the tip is still round, and not damaged or sharpened in some way.

 

[ATLDave]

I know it is now considered an old-fashioned view, but this story reinforces my aversion to leaving a loaded gun outside of my positive control.

 

[OilyPablo]

Not so old fashioned.

 

[ATLDave]

And yet many, many people seem to think that there is some real need to have loaded guns stashed in their house or business. I think that if you need a gun THAT fast, you should be wearing it in a holster. And I also think that people should practice loading their gun on the clock, if they own one for home defense. With a full magazine, it just doesn't take long at all. Just practice it. And then feel good about leaving your guns unloaded.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

I have only had two or three slam fires in 50+ years of M-16's and civilian AR-15's.

And all of those happened within the first 6 months of when I started reloading .223 in 1972.

I was crushing primers in without removing the military primer crimp first.
Which made them extra flat and sensitive.

I don't buy the cop slamming on the brakes deal at all!
I can't think of any cop car carry where the rifle would be orientated front to back in the car.

And I think the car would have to hit a semi head on at 50 to jar the bolt catch off anyway.

No way normal acceleration & braking could do it.

rc

This is very common in squad cars. Rifle or shotgun is vertical and tilted to the rear.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

You know...a holster is a really cool device!

Seriously, I'd be more concerned if you DIDN'T feel so strongly about what happened.

Learn some lessons here, then go forth and do better.


In your own words, what could you have done better or differently to have avoided this?

A holster for an AR?

 

[ny32182]

If it was going to slam fire falling off a shelf, it was probably going to slam fire in someone's hand too.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

To the OP. It happens. Learn from it and move on.




I'm sure most of us have gotten into car accidents that were our fault. Most of us probably haven't stopped driving cars.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

On a long enough time line, almost every person heavily involved with guns will have an ND. Lessons have obviously been learned and no one hurt. I had my ND at age 15 and was monkeying around with a new .22 and failed to check the chamber. This situation is much less irresponsible, for lack of a better term. Forgive yourself and move forward.

 

[Potatohead]

Ding! Ding! Winner is:

To the OP. It happens. Learn from it and move on.

If we lost a shooter from our ranks for every AD/ND , there'd be a whole heckuva lot fewer of us..40% less?

 

[jrmiddleton425]

If you own guns long enough, you WILL have an unintended discharge. That's reality. Be glad all that happened is a hole in the wall.

Step 1 to clearing an AR=MAG OUT. Now you know, firsthand, why that is.

 

[S&W620]

Good on the OP for sharing, it's a good reminder to us all.

Sorry for your experience, but selling all of your guns probably isn't the answer.

Put the guns in the safe for a few days, step back and reserve judgement until you've had a chance to clear your head.

 

[Potatohead]

Good on the OP for sharing, it's a good reminder to us all.

+1

Its quite a shameful experience. I felt like I let the whole shooting world down. Especially the THRians here who mentored me, I was just sure someone at the range that day knew I was Potatohead and was about to tell you all. Was to ashamed to tell most of them in fear of the tongue lashing that would soon ensue. As it should be..

 

[SSN Vet]

My $0.02, guarantied to be worth what you're paying for it....

You screwed up good. Root cause seems to be:
(1.) lack of understanding your firearm, (that an AR can slam fire). and...
(2.) either an over paronoid need to be prepared or forgetfulness (I didn't see a stated reason as to why you put the AR on top of the safe in this condition).

The first cause is easy to rectify (and likely already has been)... not sure about the second.

My personal #1 priority and rule regarding keeping and handling loaded self defense firearms is "don't shoot my kids in the middle of the night". It has happened to many people and in every circumstance, is avoidable. Yet still, well intending guys, no less smart or capable than myself, have done just that. So IMO losing a second or two of response time is well worth making sure that the "prowler" isn't my daughter sneaking down stairs at 4 a.m. to finish her homework.

All guns in my house are either in my hands or under lock and key. SD designated handguns are stowed condition 1, in a quick access Gun Vault. I can pop out of bed and have a loaded hand gun and a flash light in my hand in 5 sec. But my initial response to any bump in the night is to listen intently, while thinking through the possibilities... focused thought tends to wake me up. Lot's of noise makers in the house ensure that I'll hear something.

As for turning in you man card and hanging up you NRA hat... I'll simply refer you to your sig line. Taking steps to enable yourself to be the hero is not easy and not guaranteed safe... and that's why men who are the head of a family need to do it with a sober, humble and serious attitude.

Lucky you that your fam is not freaked out. I know my wife would have a fit.

 

[SSN Vet]

If you own guns long enough, you WILL have an unintended discharge. That's reality.

I strongly disagree with this statement and would not play the odds if it were true.

 

[carbine85]

Deleted

 

[savetheclaypigeons]

My grandpa used to say he was genuinely thrilled when his teenage kids came home with a fender bender and crying.

Glad to know that everyone is safe. That stomach curling pain will serve as a reminder and safety reinforcement for years to come.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

A holster for an AR?

In my defense, at the time of my posting all that was available to me was post #1. I didn't know it was an AR.

 

[JohnhenrySTL]

As I have read all the informed responses, I have to raise a silly question that only the op would know. My first thought was that maybe a kid or a possible intruder had something to do with the N.D. When my friends and I screwed up as kids, if we had any chance of hiding our stupid choices, we took full advantage of any scheme we were able to pull off. I wonder what made the rifle fall, and why nobody heard the actual firing. Atleast thats the way I understood it. Im not trying to get carried away, but stuff happens. Remember the ice that broke that kids glasses on Christmas morning.

Ive seen ars and had my sks slam fire. The Ar was fairly recent, we were shooting Tula ammo from walmart. The funny thing is a couple of the rounds from the same box seem to have hardened primers and refused fire out of either colt or the m&p. My Sks use to do that in the 90's when the real cheap ammo was still to be had. I was a stupid teenager and I thought it was sooo cool. Dont sell your guns. If you are indeed troubled, maybe put them in the safe for 2 months and re-consider.

 

[TwinReverb]

I don't think you need to sell your guns. I think you need a Barney Fife moment (Don Knots, The Andy Griffin show). Someone, a friend, could take them all away for a day or two, or longer, for you to think about it, then you can have them back.

But in no way am I saying that the solution is to abuse, mistreat, or shame you into doing right. I just think you need to think for a while, that's all.

You can be a responsible gun owner if you choose. We all can. I don't think selling off all your guns is the solution.

When you fall off the horse, take a break, then get back on the horse.

 

[pintler]

"btw, one more condition to consider is the use of a chamber flag. basically, chamber flag inserted, bolt closed on the flag, hot magazine inserted. that requires you to cycle the bolt and remove the flag."

I'm a fan of the 'Saf-T-Round' They are orange plastic dummy cartridges with an integral chamber flag. The base is brass with the normal groove for ejection, so to use you insert in chamber then ease the bolt forward and use the forward assist to click the extractor over the rim. The orange chamber flag is left sticking out the ejection port. You just pull back the charging handle just like you'd do to load a round and the Saf-T-Round extracts and ejects.

They make them in a variety of calibers.

Midway/Brownells/etc carry the common calibers. Other calibers can be had direct from the manufacturer (safrgun dot com).

 

[TwinReverb]

I do not agree that if one owns guns long enough they will have an ND. It's true that we are not perfect. It's true that entropy exists. But i say this only to encourage the o.p.: is possible to never have one, or at least never again.

Don't be discouraged.

 

[gamestalker]

I noticed someone mentioned carrying / storing a wheel gun or revolver with an empty cylinder in battery position. So i thought a little education might help some who aren't fully informed of modern revolver designs.

An older revolver, such as my SBH made in the 70's, the hammer can impact the firing pin thus strike the primer and discharge if dropped.

On new modern production model revolvers, I don't hesitate to carry, or store it with a round in battery position.

A way to test a revolver for the presence of a modern integral transfer bar hammer block design, is to empty all the cylinders completely. Then open the cylinder, pull the hammer back to just short of full cocked position, place your finger over the firing pin hole and against the recoil shield, then release the hammer. If you feel the firing pin hit your finger, your revolver is older and thus does not have a modern transfer bar design. With an empty cylinder, you can also test by simply pushing on the hammer as hard as you con. If it moves forward, and the firing pin protrudes from the recoil shield, it is not transfer bar equipped.

GS