Picking a rifle cartridge

[Sunray]

"...stopping power in the case of a charge..." No such thing as stopping power. No cartridge will stop anything in its tracks without a shot to the central nervous system/spine. And even then there's no guarantee the rampaging beast will know its dead. Even with a brain shot or one that breaks big bones.
There's really only a few beasties who won't put up with you bothering them and fewer who might see you as food. Big bears and mountain lions. And you will never be fast enough to deal with any of 'em. Yogi will only bother with you if you bother him or get between Cindy and her kids. Kitty comes from above and behind.
"...375 H&H is the minimum for dangerous game..." Minimum allowed for hunting 'em in most African countries.
"...because I want it..." That'd be a reason and the only one you need. Mind you, a guy came into the shop one day, long ago, who was going to Africa. Just had to have his own .458 Win. Guy buys a Win M70 African and a box of ammo(brass alone was $50Cdn then). Picks it up on Friday evening and is back Saturday afternoon with the rifle, 2 empties and 18 loaded rounds, asking us to sell it.

 

[theboyscout]

I think he wants an all-around cartridge. You know, bear to rhinos and everything in between. I've been told that Hornady is very close to having developed such a cartridge.

35 Rem doesn't belong in that group.

Yes this is more of what I'm talking about

 

[Bull Nutria]

for an all around gun had to beat one of these three 270, 308 or 30.06. My personal favorite is the 7mm08 In TC Venture. However I do own a CZ 223 bolt gun for varmints, 35 whelen TC single shot and a Rem 760- 30,06

Bull

 

[FL-NC]

In the lower 48 I think the 30-06 is the most versatile for just about any scenario. I'm a 308 man myself.

 

[Hillbillyz]

One more vote for the 30.06. Anything in North America from deer to bears to zombies is withen the limits of a .06.

 

[Shawn.54]

For years I hunted every thing I could with a 35 Whelen not because it was my only rifle but because I liked it, It shoots well and it's fun to listen to friends and family complain about overkill. After they shut up I got a 375 Ruger loaded it with 200gr bullets at 3213fps and the overkill thing started again. If you can handle recoil get a rifle that can cover the top end you can always shoot small with big gun you can't shoot big with a small rifle.
When it comes to shooting it's to each his own if some wants to shoot a squirrel with a 50bmg as long as they can handle it accurately then do it.

 

[Bobson]

He wants an all around cartridge. Bear to rhino, etc

Yes this is more of what I'm talking about

I've been on this same trip, and you may as well start searching for the fountain of youth instead. It's a myth, dude. Don't waste your time.

If you need a gun that can kill anything, then you can't afford to worry whether it's going to destroy a bunch of meat, or none. If you CAN afford to worry about that, then you don't NEED to find a gun that's good for EVERYTHING. You get what I'm saying here? You need to be a bit more real about what your needs are versus what you want. There's a difference.

Assuming you live in the US, you don't NEED a rifle that can kill everything and do it with a minimum of damage to the meat. I know that just based on the fact that you're well-off enough to be using a computer with the Internet, and can afford to buy a rifle. Obviously, you can also afford food. So what we're really talking about here is what you WANT.

Someone else said it back on page one. Get whatever caliber you want. THEN, figure what it's good at killing, without killing it too much. Use it for that.

A great all-around round? Anything on the list between .270 Win and .300 Win Mag. With the right ammo selection (which will necessarily vary based on what you're shooting on a given day - you're not going to find one magic bullet any more than you'll find one magic caliber), any of those can kill anything in the continental US, and do it without destroying an excessive amount of meat.

 

[Art Eatman]

Figure out your primary intended use, first. Then you can rationally select a cartridge. After that, you can begin the game of selection of a particular rifle.

Anything else is just some sort of speculative mind game, with no useful purpose beyond a bull session in a gunshop.

 

[Legionnaire]

If I were looking for a cartridge for dangerous game, I'd look at the .375 Ruger.
For all other medium-big game, I'll stick with my .308 Winchester.

 

[Robert]

Ok so my last post was not overly detailed so let me say this; if you want one caliber for everything from white tail deer to elephant, under the right circumstances, then it is very hard to beat the 375H&H. Load it with light cast bullets down to very comfortable 30-06 level or load it with 235-270gr bullets for medium game, or go all out with solids for heavy tough game. It can, and has, done it all. Recoil is very manageable and nothing compared to some of the other ubermagnums in the .30 to .338 range.

Look at it this way, with my rifle I am able to put a 270gr bullet to almost the same poi as a 180gr 30-06 at 300y. I am bringing a heavier bullet at almost the same speed and delivering more energy.

My rifle with scope weights right at 10 lbs, which to some might as well be a ton. But I've hunted some steep and deep terrain in the mountains of CO with this rifle and a 20 lbs pack without fatigue. It is very well balanced and easy to carry. I don't get the current trend for super light "mountain" rifles. There is no way I'd shoot a 6-7 lbs 30-06 enough to get good with it. I shoot heavy rifles better and would rather have the extra weight to soak up recoil and help me stay steady. And before I get accused of being in great shape I am a bit pudgy and have asthma, so I just pace myself.

These are just my experiences with my 375. Your milage may vary.

 

[CptnAwesome]

If I had to choose one all around cartridge I'd say the 375 Ruger. It's good for any north American big game, recoil is not ridiculous. Slightly heavy and short ranged for typical antelope hunting but will do the job. Plenty of stopping power for any four legged meat eaters you might be after also.

If you really think you might have to shoot 300yds+ I'd go 300 win mag.

 

[Art Eatman]

"All around"? Including squirrels, rabbits, prairie dogs, coyotes, woodchucks?

 

[Orcon]

If you want to go all "man with one gun" on us, it's hard to discount a 30 cal that's seen military service... but you're better off picking a specific goal and basing your cartridge choice on that goal.

 

[zb338]

I'm talking from experience and from seeing and talking to a lot of other guys that hunt.
If you stay in America the .300 Winchester Magnum or the .338 Winchester should do
the job. A lot of the big game hunters hunting in Canada and the U.S. use the .300
Weatherby and the .340 Weatherby magnums. With excellent results.

Zeke

 

[Llama Bob]

The obvious question is whether theboyscout has any particular experience shooting rifles - especially big ones. Because it's all well and good to debate the fine points of various large cartridges, but if OP has limited experience with centerfire rifles it's a waste of time, as what he needs is a relatively soft shooting rife that will quite likely NOT stop a charging rhino, and a lot of ammo for practice.

That said, a distinction needs to be made between a rifle for hunting animals, and one for stopping animals. Stopping rifles tend to be in much heavier calibers and a small number of reliable action types, and trade off everything else to get there - range, accuracy, recoil, weight and cost. They tend to be BAD hunting rifles, unless very carefully chosen.

It also matters where and what you plan to hunt, or what you might need to stop. North America is basically devoid of really nasty animals. The only things we have are bison and the great bears (brown, grizzly, and polar which are actually probably biologically subspecies of the same bear). These are what you might call semi-dangerous game - big and tough, but lacking the nasty temperament and/or robust build of African and Asian dangerous game.

 

[the Black Spot]

From the op's text i read:
Big game
Long distance
Stop charge
Available ammo

That would equal .375 H&H from a common core perspective

 

[Llama Bob]

From the op's text i read:
Big game
Long distance
Stop charge
Available ammo

That would equal .375 H&H from a common core perspective

Well, maybe. But I have a funny feeling we're suggesting a guy who knows next to nothing about rifles (and thus probably has near zero rifle shooting experience) buy a big magnum. That's probably not going to end well.

 

[Tirod]

The OP did try to give us some idea of range and target. In this particular case it's bit vague but he did say, "take out any big game from long and short distances withput distroying the meet and has stopping power in the case of a charge."

On one end of the scale, .308. It can be had with some small varmint bullets which stretch down into the under 50 pound class, and at the upper end the .308 is the #1 rifle round used in Africa by poachers on elephant and rhino. Usually out of an HK G3 according to field reports of guns seized.

Why game departments up the ante to a minimum level of .375 is more tradition and making sure the guided neophyte has enough gun to prevent tactical issues in the field. As noted by the OP, some game have no respect for puny humans and the will to enforce it, mortally wounded or not.

Which means the upper end of the scale is considered and why that photo doesn't include 8mm Remington Magnum is more a factor of popularity than capability. I have seen whitetail stopped in their tracks with a shot thru the hams and the deer nearly dead on impact with the ground. I understand there is no guarantee of "stopping power" but that doesn't mean some rounds can't deliver it more often than not - which is exactly why the .375 H&H is a minimum requirement for so many. It can and does deliver it. I submit however that the 8mm Rmag has a much longer range and is superior. Having shot one in my youth I can't say it was a pleasant experience but for dangerous game with open express sights I'd certainly prefer it over many others. Even better in a self loading action, but those are few and far between in a carriage I would be lugging over rough terrain.

And in that regard, it would be justifiable to have some kind of muzzle device on it, too. I would never shoot one under a range canopy, either.

 

[ants]

I've seen hundreds of these threads all over Al Gore's invention The Internet.
They ask for "The answer" to a grossly general question with no specific depth.
The man who poses such a question is just making conversation.
And he has a complete right to do so, even if there is no 'right' answer.

"From bears to rhino and everything in between."
The OP and I will never hunt bears to rhinoceros and everything in between.
This is strictly a rhetorical question just to have some fat to chew on.

Each to his own. Find your own fat and chew it.

 

[Mn Fats]

Do to comments of cunfusion,

Out of those choices or choices of your own, looking for a versitile rifle round that will take out any big game from long and short distances withput distroying the meet and has stopping power in the case of a charge. Rounds are available too.

which rifle cartridge would you pick and why?
If you think there is one better than in the picture label it and say why that one over these ones.

Consider me thoroughly confused. Without more details, I'll go .300 win mag. For now.

 

[Offfhand]

Minimum Equipment Requirements for Rifle Hunting in Zambia

Thanks Mr. 243 for posting caliber regulations for Zambia, appreciate your effort. But as I said in earlier post, I've never known such regulations to be enforced in any of the African countries where I've hunted, including Zambia. I always take the rifle I want to use for the game I want to hunt, and on some safaris I've taken only one rifle: a few times it being only a 7X57 and other hunts only a .338WM. A hunting pal of mine has killed everything with a .300WM, including elephant. Always with his handloads. I have couple of nice .375's but never took either to Africa, the reason being that it is either too big for some game or not big enough for others. Over half of the PH's I've hunted with have a 458WM, Which is also what I'd carry if I were a PH.

 

[Gordon]

" not many problems a man cannot fix , with $700 and a 30-06" I might add with the .375H&H you won't need the $700

 

[MCMXI]

This is a bit off topic but it looks to me like the photo in the first post has the .270 Win and .30-06 Sprg cartridges mixed up.

Back on topic, my go-to hunting rifle for deer/elk/moose or just about anything bigger than me is a Talkeetna chambered in .375 H&H. I shoot it well, it's as accurate as most any hunting rifle out there, it kills everything with one shot, there's no tracking required and no meat damage. So far the closest animal taken with it was at 203 yards, the furthest at 460 yards, and from a good rest I'd be confident out to 600 yards on a large animal with proper ranging. I don't think the .375 H&H is for everyone but I like it since it's devastating on everything, it offers a wide factor of safety, and there's no second guessing with it. If you can handle the weight of the rifle/scope and don't mind the "push" from the stock when shooting it's a winner. One can argue that a lighter rifle shooting a smaller and much lighter bullet is a better choice for many hunters and that's a valid point. We're all free to choose what we want and my choice is the .375 H&H.

 

[dranrab]

The idea of stopping a charge is full on fantasy for most of us in the USA. Unless you plan on hunting in Brown Bear country, and a lot at that, stopping a charge should be about the least of your concerns. And then if it is a concern, more important than the caliber is your ability. Getting off an accurate shot at a moving target quickly under stress will take a lot of practice. If meat damage is a concern, don't shoot 'em in the meat.

 

[midland man]

well I just ordered a savage axis left hand 243 and the reason I did as I shoot and hunt deer here in Oklahoma with my Winchester 94 30-30 as its just about right for deer here in this state but as for the 243 in this same state I wanted it on these powerline right of ways or long clearings as sometimes the deer are way past the range of my 30-30 so with the 243 I can reach further to make a clean kill shot! so the moral of the point is its better if one can to have more than one gun so you can cover most situations! like this rifle I ordered at Walmart it was only $308 for the left hand version and they had the right hand version right there for $269 but I am a left handed shooter so the little difference was worth it to me! but I do plan on also ordering later on as I charged this rifle on my Walmart card and once paid off I plan on getting the marlin 45-70 model 1895gbl as I like this for the idea someday hoping to get to go to either Colorado or Montana etc, for the larger game there, so if possible its best to have a few options!