Police at wrong address kill man who had gun

[brboyer]

I'll travel with you on the assumption that he pointed the gun at them. If you had unknown armed guys at your front door would you fear great bodily harm or think the were there to see if you wanted to buy guns?

Reasonably? (which is the legal requirement) For a knock at the door? No and I do not believe any Judge/Jury would either.

But, since I'm a reasonable person, I would not do something so stupid as to open my door to anyone, visibly armed or not, at 1:30 AM unless it was someone I knew and was expecting.

 

[brboyer]

If we were to remove the police officer from the equation and make it some random civilian....wouldn't there be a trial by a jury for a case like this.

Why is it nowadays police are held infallible. It infuriates me to no end how police are held above the law

Anything is possible, but in general, No. see post #21.

 

[Texan Scott]

Sam1911 had this one about wrapped up at post #5. hso in for the assist; dunk.

For what it's worth, I'll chime in... why would you open the door if you REALLY think it's that dangerous? or yell 'i've got a gun' straight away, even?
me, i'm leaving the door locked and politely asking (loud sing-song voice) "whooo iiiis iiit?" w/ the cell phone in my left and a .38 in my right.

sad, stupid, and unfortunate all around... and i'm not one to bash cops... they're the first people i call! but carrying a badge requires a higher degree of responsibility than this... these particular officers need to be held to that higher standard for their little 'oopsie'... it cost a man his life.

 

[csa77]

If ther is no proof that the man pointed the gun in the first place then all you have is a man answering the door holding a gun and an officer who murdered him.


I would think the officer would have to prove that the man pointed that gun at him....well at least you or I would but not the police

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Regardless of whether they are law enforcement or not, it's not wise to open a door immediately pointing a gun at someone.

Why do I smell cover up? This just reeks of them claiming the gun was pointed at them just so they get off with self defense. I can't imagine any sane and law abiding citizen that would answer the door pointing a gun at the one knocking. I don't buy that.

 

[piece of meat]

Maybe he read too many of those emails and thought the time had come and obama had sent them to confiscate his guns..lol

 

[krupparms]

I must point out my handgun was in a holster. I informed them as a courtesy! It was 2:00pm
in the afternoon. Next time I will thank twice about that!

 

[tydephan]

I can't imagine any sane and law abiding citizen that would answer the door pointing a gun at the one knocking. I don't buy that.

Perhaps he wasn't sane or law-abiding. At this point, we simply do not know.

To blame the police is just as speculative and futile as blaming the deceased.

 

[krupparms]

I still believe that this is a training &administration problem! We can only expect them to be responsible as the ones that train & oversee their actions!

 

[elwoodm]

i wonder if the guy they were after saw the whole thing go down and hauled ass. he probably drove away saying thanks for the heads up

 

[Certaindeaf]

Upon sight of a gun, undercover/plainclothes officers have been shot and killed by responding uniformed officers. I really don't think their brother woulda pointed his gun at them justifying a shoot. anyway, bad juju all around

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Sounds like a BIG out-of-court settlement to me. Why do cops continue to do this? Can't they put someone in charge of the address? Doctors and nurses now go through about 5 separate checks to make sure they are operating on the correct hand or foot, can't cops have a "check, double check" now and then?

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

To blame the police is just as speculative and futile as blaming the deceased.

It's enough that they got the wrong address but their mistake got someone killed. Don't you think that they are right now worried for their lives because of it? Saying that the gun was pointed at them makes it easier for them since no one will be the wiser. Wasn't there one homeowner that was shot in the back multiple times while holding a home invader at gunpoint, then the Police started talking about covering it up while 911 was still on the line and recording?

When the Police mess up like this, I don't believe stories like that. It's not that difficult to get the right address for some place. Why didn't they try and nab the guy when he left his house? It's like that shooting that recently happened in Greenland New Hampshire. 4 officers were wounded and the Greenland Chief was killed during entry when the guy appeared to just have a 9mm handgun. That could have been avoided if they just grabbed the guy when he was out of his house.

Sounds like a BIG out-of-court settlement to me. Why do cops continue to do this? Can't they put someone in charge of the address? Doctors and nurses now go through about 5 separate checks to make sure they are operating on the correct hand or foot, can't cops have a "check, double check" now and then?

My thoughts exactly. One Marine or ex-Marine was killed when he grabbed his AR 15 when his home was being broken into by Police during a no knock raid and they never announced that it was the Police. Turned out to be the wrong address.

 

[krupparms]

You would think it would be an out of court settlement! That is what the insurance Co. told them to do in several of the cases around here. But we are going to Fed. Court along with the others! That will cost us money that they don't have. It will come out of the citizens pockets again!

 

[Onward Allusion]

Another reason for not answering the door PERIOD if you are not expecting anyone.

 

[jmorris]

Why do cops continue to do this?

Why not? If no punishment exists for wrong doing why alter methods. You think a $50 million settelment for his family will make any difference? Hah, your taxes will just go up next year to cover it.

 

[The_Armed_Therapist]

I'm armed when I answer the door at noon, even if I know it's a family member... because I'm ALWAYS armed. More and more law enforcement officers have no respect for property rights. It's sad--innocent people are dying all the time because of their actions.

 

[Godsgunman]

You know I've had a very similar experience happen to me but no one was shot or injured. My wife and I were awoken suddenly to banging on our front door at 3 in the morning so I jumped out of bed and grabbed my gun. As I made my way to the door I could see through the kitchen window that it was the police. I quickly handed the gun off to my wife and told her to stay out of site with it while I answered the door. Well of course they had the wrong house and were looking for my neighbor who had parked his car halfway between my house and their house. We were new to the neighborhood also at the time and had no clue who our neighbor was. The cops never did announce that they were cops while pounding on the door though and it would be nice that when they decide to obtain such felons that they double check to make sure they have the right house before they scare innocent people at ungodly hours of the night.

 

[SwissArmyDad]

My solid-core front door is protected by a steel security screen, and even so, I have a mini door on the main door that I'd use to check the identity of anyone who comes up to it.

That said, I HAVE actually answered the door twice armed. Both times the gun was out of sight, and my tone was assertive, but could ONLY be described as conversational.

I can't even imagine, even with those two instances lighting up my spidey sense like crazy, answering the door with a drawn, agressively pointed pistol.


Definitely feel sorry for that mans family, though.

 

[Ignition Override]

A pilot was in a "crash pad" (commuter apartment) in Eastpoint, by Atlanta Airport.

A crack head began to kick his way into the door while the pilot (trained as an FFDO in NM with his HK .40) warned him that he would shoot if the attacker refused to stop.

The thug continued to kick in the door and was killed.
Even though no LEO was involved during the incident, it certainly fits into this category. An LEO who often patrols the Ruby Tuesday on Sullivan Rd told me this story last March, and another pilot who also stays at a crash pad in Eastpoint confirmed the event.

 

[lobo9er]

My only 2 cents on this one is that situation like these have happened all over the country. Wrong address, wrong person, etc.

 

[JagerRanger]

Why is it nowadays police are held infallible. It infuriates me to no end how police are held above the law

They are the law and they show it to you every time.

I'm that old that I recall times seeing a cop was a cool thing, thumbs up. Not anymore.

There is nothing defensible in this affair - nothing.

 

[oldbear]

Both Sam1911 and HSO have had the best answers of the ones I've read.

This is a loose loose deal for everyone. Officers can and do make mistakes, but this (wrong address) has happen all to often over the years, and in most cases it could have been prevented with a little extra due diligence. I.e the use of a city directory,Utilities check or a DMV check of any vehicles on the property.

As for the question of answering the door at night. I live in a very nice area and other than some minor gas stealing I can't remember the last time anyone here was the victim of a crime of any sort. Yet if someone comes to my door after dark, I will have a weapon in my hand either covered with a newspaper, towel. As I always stand with the door blocking most of my body it's easy to have a gun ready but out of sight.

 

[Owen Sparks]

This is a good reason to invest in a one way peep hole for your door. They are not expensive and all you need to install one is a drill.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

"To blame the police is just as speculative and futile as blaming the deceased." I blame them for being armed & dangerous (assumed from the resulting death), and AT THE WRONG HOUSE. I REALLY blame them for that. Why is it hard to see that the police sometimes ARE to blame?