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Racist Gunshops

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Bill Hook, Nov 22, 2003.

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  1. Bill Hook

    Bill Hook member

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    I was out doing the C&R pawn and gun shop crawl today, when I came across a place that had lotsa C&Rs, albeit way overpriced, and got to talking (mostly his monologue) to one of the guys behind the counter (probably a partner). I asked about a 71/84 mauser they had and the guy starts off into connecting this bit of German history to Hitler (who was really a Jew, BTW) and why killing Jews and Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. was really a good idea. The other partner finally shut him up, but I can't help thinking folks like this offer a p-ss - poor image of gun ownership.

    Thoughts or similar experiences?

    Last time I heard something like this, it was a customer who started spouting off vile descriptions of black women, which made the guys behind the counter and me start to look at this person like they were a disgusting fool. They didn't say anything, because I'm sure they wanted the business and they finally managed to excuse themselves to go to the repair shop and help a walk-in.
     
  2. Chipperman

    Chipperman Senior Member

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    I've been in shops where the entire staff immediately turns to face any Minority coming in the shop. You can see in the eyes of the poor person that they know they are not welcome or trusted there. Very Sad.
     
  3. Ed

    Ed Member

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    Now, was the gunshop racist? Or the people there? I hate to see innocent shops get blamed.:D

    I've never been in one, but would leave if i were to find myself in that kind of store.
     
  4. JimJD

    JimJD Member

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    There is a store not too far from me that sells guns.
    Not a dedicated gun store.
    First time I walk in, the owner is trash talking Mexicans. Rather loudly I might add, relating all this to a customer at the shop.
    Customer is shaking his head in agreement!
    So, needless to say, I walked right out of that place.
    Never going to spend a dime there, never going back.

    Ed said:
    Ummm.... Ed... I know what he means.
    I've seen and encountered that type of behavior countless times. With my friends, and by myself.
    Are they racist ? Maybe. Maybe not.
    But at the very least, there's "something" under the surface there.
     
  5. Ed

    Ed Member

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    I'll clear this up before it gets taken wrong, the comment was a joke about blaming a building.....I know some people are jerks.:cool:
     
  6. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    If they don't want business, then let them drive potential customers away. While it's their loss, it certainly makes for a poor image of gundealers or in this case, pawn shops.
     
  7. rayjay

    rayjay Member

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    There is a gun shop here that opened up about 4 months ago. I figured I'd check it out about a week after it opened. Clean looking building from the outside. I walk in with my wife and 3 yr old son in tow and notice a very nice lay-out with lots of display cases. We browse around and I take some 9mm ammo to the counter to check out. While I'm chatting with the guy who's adding up my purchase another guy walks up to my son and hands him alittle Nazi flag on a stick. My wife taps me on the shoulder and my mouth drops open. I'm in shock! I tell the guy to please take the flag back and proceed to tell him if he trys that again he's gonna need a doctor to have that flag removed. He starts spouting some racial stuff and how he's protected by the 1st Admenment. My wife and I left, quick. Not before telling them that we would not be back ever!
     
  8. JimJD

    JimJD Member

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    I know what you meant Ed, Sorry if it seemed like I was suggesting otherwise. I did'nt mean anything like that. :)


    This thread is just reminding me of so many things I've seen, been subjected to, etc. Some things that have happened when my friends and I walked into a store were just unbelievable!
    Not to mention, I've worked a lot of retail when I was younger.
    I can't believe some of the stuff people I worked with said and did.
    I'm talking about lawsuit level type stuff!
    Some of those customers ended up filing lawsuits...They won.
     
  9. Chipperman

    Chipperman Senior Member

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    :what: Did the guy work there, or was just a customer?

    If that had happened to my family, I never would have seen it. My wife would have shoved it up his nose before I even turned around.
     
  10. HABU

    HABU Member

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    For the record, if he was shaking his head, he was disagreeing.:neener:
     
  11. rayjay

    rayjay Member

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    He worked there. The only reason my wife didn't clobber him was she was holding our son. I did take the flag away from my son and throw it on the ground and my wife stepped on it when way left.
     
  12. JimJD

    JimJD Member

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    D'OH!
    *JimJD holds sides of head like Homer Simpson*

    I meant nodding his head in agreement! :D

    Man... I have to stop watching TV and typing at the same time!

    Hee-Hee!
     
  13. HABU

    HABU Member

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    I have the hellivission on too, you may bust me before too long.:evil:
     
  14. Mark Tyson

    Mark Tyson Senior Member

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    Never racists fortunately, but I've run into more than a few guys with some bizarre conspiracy theories at gun stores.
     
  15. JimJD

    JimJD Member

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    Mark Tyson wrote:

    Those guys are really scary!
    I ran into one at a gun show not too long ago.
    later on, I saw and heard him talking to himself.
    Seemed like he was having an arguement with some unseen "Lone Gunman"...
    I'm thinking, "Who let this guy in!?!?"
    All we needed that day was to have Mike Moore stroll in with a camera crew...:uhoh:
     
  16. larry_minn

    larry_minn Senior Member

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    What is fun is if they are talking against Mexican is walk up and ask. "Buno. Donde Esta La Boom Boom?" (I speak better then I type) :) I have fooled folks in Spanish/German/French/Norwegin/Japanize. I only know a few phrases but folks buy it. :) :)
     
  17. Mike Irwin

    Mike Irwin Senior Member

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    Never had anyone overtly racist in either of the gunshops that I worked at.

    I did, over the years, kick a couple of "customers" out...

    One guy, a big, fat, greasy slob with a ponytail halfway down his back, dressed all in black with those big, thick, black-rimmed glasses that are all the rage with some of the people who favor all black had a T-shirt on it with the inscription "Feeling suicidal?" next to a picture of a noose. Under that was "Take someone with you!" and a picture of a gun.

    The other guy walked in and I had my back to the floor when I hear one of the other customers say something to the effect of "Oh man, knock it off..."

    When I turned back, this guy had dropped his trousers and underwear and was just standing there.

    I yelled at him to get his pants back up and get out before I rammed his "ahem" into his ear...

    He finally tucked back in when I picked up the phone to call the police. They found him staggering up the street. Turns out he was a local drunk who had a history of exposing himself.
     
  18. Beetle Bailey

    Beetle Bailey Senior Member

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    I guess it's a little unfair because I haven't actually been in there, but two of my buddies have had bad experiences with racists at a local gunshop so I just don't bother going in. I mean, I want to support the local gunshops and not just buy everything online, but if they are racists, no way. Lucky for me, there are three local ones I like and that's plenty more than I need or could ever presume to support.
     
  19. USGuns

    USGuns Member

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    race baiting

    One ignorant idiot does not a racist gunshop make...
    ... that word (racism) is WAY overused and abused.
     
  20. chaim

    chaim Senior Member

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    Yup, there was a gunshop near a school where I had a long term substitute teaching assignment. I walk in, a ton of really bad looks and they seem quite busy with other stuff and have little time to help me. I figure it to something other than my kippah (yarmulka) and give them another chance a few days later. I come back again to look (they do have some really nice stuff). I again get looks, no one wants to help me. They help customers who come in after me. Finally someone "helps" me. He is very inpatient. Practically throws the rifle at me. Grabs it back rudely when I decide not to buy it right away. Abruptly asks if I want anything else. Is very upset to hear me want to look at a pistol. Puts it away. Walks away without letting me check anything else out. I stick around a few minutes, long enough to see the same guy help another customer with the nicest, most polite, demeanor I've ever seen in a gunshop. While all this is happening I notice customers and employees looking at me and talking in undertones. This is in a part of town that is known to be fairly racist and where the Klan has some support (I had several antisemitic incidents with some of my students while at this school).
     
  21. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six member

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    It pleases me to see this thread here.

    Although you can't tell by looking at me, I'm a breed, I'm half white and half red.

    As a result, all my life, both races (as well as other assorted races, those with olive skin) have assumed that I'm one of them, and felt free to speak freely about "other" races in my presence, usually assuming that my silence indicated my allignment with the position they were stating. This exposure set me in my contempt for racists long ago.

    Roughly fifteen (maybe twenty, I loose track) years ago, I stopped being silent.

    At the time, I was a member of a construction union, and there is no harder core bastion of racism that I'm aware of outside of prison than a union construction jobshack, and to make a long story short, I ended up making myself virtually unemployable in my home city. Since I'm too stubborn to move, now I run my own construction company.

    Sometimes, Fate is kind, and I ended up signing an agreement with the very same union I was once a member of, and some of the expressions that happen when a new hand reports for work on dispatch morning make me a happy man.

    In my opinion, the most dangerous type of racist is a racist who honestly believes that he isn't. Someone who honestly believes that he doesn't treat "one of them" any differently than he would his friends, without realizing that he drew two lines based on race in that single sentence, not to mention that one of the lines separates other races from ever being counted as his friends, and without realizing that as long as it bears mentioning, it's an issue. If there was no issue, there would be nothing to discuss.

    The boys in the white sheets and the clowns with the swastikas aren't dangerous. We know who they are, they go out of their way to tell us who they are. Without even the discipline to remain concealed, they are little better than punchlines. They think they are a threat with their cultures of violence, when I'm probably better armed and almost certainly a better shot, and violence pales beside things like glass ceilings and grinding, hopeless poverty. I would submit that when poverty becomes a way of life, as on the Pine Ridge res, and the children of your children's children will live and die in the same hopeless way of life, damage far beyond any firefight has been done.

    One of the more pleasant experiences in recent memory was the discovery that the pistol league I had joined was one of the most tolerant places I've discovered in a very long time. Maybe it's that "polite society" phenomenon, I don't know, but it's responsible for my willingness to make this post, and discuss this issue with people I've never seen.

    What I've seen is that the league I belong to accepts minorities and women without comment, which is one of the final steps in true equality.

    The WNBA isn't equality. Equality would be female players in the NBA, at the same rates of pay, based on the same criteria, points scored, without becoming a cause for comment.

    When I was an apprentice, some of the first women were beginning to join our union, and I apprenticed with some of them. Over the years, we slugged it out in job shack after job shack, and all but a few of the super-humanly strong ladies left.

    Now some of those women are foremen, and jobsite superintendents, and while there are still some dinosaurs who object, they are becoming fewer and fewer, and I believe that it's going to take one more generation.

    That is, the generation that is starting it's apprenticship now, who will be dispatched for the first time Monday morning, and walk into their first jobshack latter that morning to find a woman in charge will be the first generation to stand a chance.

    Because as far as they will be concerned, that will be the way it's always been, and it won't be worthy of comment.

    If you can remember a time when there was a race that was a second class citizen, who had to put out more to get to the same place, then you and I are probably both lost. We've been poisoned, and neither you nor I will ever be able to set the memory of that time completely aside. We will forever pine for it, or we will forever over-compensate for it, or we will see it where it doesn't exist, and we will never be able to balance our humanity on that razor edge perfectly enough to erase it. All we can do is fight it, and hope to produce that first morning in the jobshack, so that one day, there will be a generation who will only remember if not equality, then peace. Then acceptance. Then, perhaps, equality.

    It's not just gunshops. It's everywhere, from WalMart to the Bon Marche, from restaraunts to auto body shops to dentists. Anywhere there are lazy people, you can find it. When you make a rule about a class of people, you are attempting to relieve yourself of the responsibility of analyzing people on case by case basis.

    As it happens, it was a Washington State Patrolman who taught this to me, and he was teaching me about my brand new Springfield Milspec at the time. We were going over the rudimentry basics about when you draw and when you shoot, and when you don't. We had worked out most of it, and I made the statement "if you point a weapon at me, at my wife, or, my personal threshold, if you hit my wife, I kill you."

    He said "Really? So, if an 84 pound, 92 year old woman who stands 4 foot 10 inches tall, has lost her glasses and has one arm hits your wife, you'll draw and kill her?"

    Well, of course not. You can't make a rule, because any rule you make will have a hole in it. The analysis has to happen on a case by case basis, on the spot, under fire. As we talked, I realized that that's the basis of racism, and that's what's wrong with it. You can't avoid the mess, the effort, the inconvenience, and the mistakes involved in making decisions about people on a case by case basis, one at a time, on the spot, under fire.

    As I said, it pleases me to see this thread, more than I can say.

    In my experience, racists don't discuss racism, other than to either deny it exists or declare theirs proudly.
     
  22. chaim

    chaim Senior Member

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    Jammer Six, good post.
     
  23. Gordon

    Gordon Senior Member

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    I hate : Nazi's ,Kluxers and Commies in that order. Aryan's, separatists, and socialists are just the slow version. I have zero tolerance for these people and do everything in my power to eliminate them from using my oxygen up. I guess that means I'm a hate monger but screw them no matter what color or religion they follow!:evil:
     
  24. larry_minn

    larry_minn Senior Member

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    Jammer Six
    Made me glad to read your post. Glad that things are (slowly) improving.
     
  25. Bill Hook

    Bill Hook member

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    Unless he's an owner. :rolleyes:



    I shook my head a few times before heading out the door.


    You should make a point to go back there, this time with a baseball cap on over the yarmulke and ask about some product, whip out the plastic and make like they have a sale. Off comes the baseball cap and see if their attitude changes. About face to the door after explaining to them why you won't buy anything from them and threaten to get ADL, etc. to protest outside.

    It could've been that the owner could only find racist d-ckheads to work the joint and they might have some better folks there this time around. If they apologize, then it may be worth reconsidering. Truth be told, my father always had the idea, that despite what your prejudices may be, green is the only color that matters when you're dealing with customers. It is only the truly stupid who make an effort to expose their bigotry and if you're truly trying to avoid bigots, you'll probably have to stop spending your money anywhere. This isn't to say you should give gun shop nazis your money, though.
     
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