RE: Oleg's Dating Pic

[kel]

MA is NOT shall issue

Yeah, the first time a kid comes to pick up either my daughter or my son I ask to see his/her driver's license. I do it to make sure he/she has a valid license, and also to note any restrictions. My kids are younger than 18 and it is my responsibility to do what I can to keep them out of trouble.

As far as the carrying a gun goes, My opinion is that a lot depends on the laws that are in place where you live. Byron, I can undertsand your willingness to pay the fine for a misdemeanor offense. Unfortunately, up here, unlawful carry is a felony that carries a mandatory 1-year jail sentence.

Massachusetts is a "shall issue" state. If the kid wants to carry he should apply for a permit. If he can't get a permit because he's a convicted felon, sex offender, or has restraining orders against him, then I don't want my daughter anywhere near him. Ditto if he's risking a year in prison because he's too lazy to apply.

If a date shows up to pick up my daughter and I see that he is carrying, he's already got one strike against him: Open carry is illegal and if he fails to conceal his gun from me, then I have to assume that either he wanted it to be seen, (which is irresponsible) or he's too inexperieced/incompetent not to be made.

I'll ask to see his concealed carry permit. If he doesn't have one, then he is commiting a felony. It doesn't matter whether I like the law (I don't) or morally agree with the law (again, I don't). The kid will spend a year in jail if he's caught. If I could pick up that he was carrying, I have to assume that any competent LEO would too. My daughter is not going out with him.

However, if he did have a CCW permit, I'd recommend a more concealable holster (maybe even lend him one of mine), make sure he was carrying good SD loads, and invite him to come out to the range sometime.

If he asked me if I was allowed by statute to request those documents, I'd throw him and his snotty attitude right out the door.

Thinking back... If I talked that way to my girlfriend's father the first time I met him, he'd've smacked me so hard that his Marine Corps ring would've left an impression in my head so detailed that they'd've been able to use my head as a mold to make more rings. You know what? If I brought that attitude into his house, he would've been justified in doing it too.

You are very lucky if you get a license that is not restricted to sport and target. Hell, the licenses even when restricted are not shall issue. The Chief of Police can deny an application for LTC Class A or B without any reason and it is impossible to challenge as the law says specifically "may issue." Only FOID cards which allow the purchase and possesion of low capacity shotguns and rifles are shall issue in MA.

 

[Byron Quick]

But in this thread alone, all of us gun lovers and RKBA promoters have basically said if you have no permit, I dont want you to carry. Prove your responsibility with your weapon before you can use it, and let me see you use it at the range.

No, not all of us. I have a carry permit for one reason: to keep a minion of the state from pointing his gun at me legally. I'm forced to do it by the superior firepower of the state. That I have a carry permit, in no way means that I agree with the reasoning behind the license-or the justice of the concept. Boys and girls have the same rights as I do. Their responsible guardians have the duty to train them as to use and safety.

As I stated before, if my underage for a carry permit daughter's date was arrested for carrying without a permit then my daughter would probably also be arrested for carrying without a permit. Because she would for darn sure be carrying. She'd be trained in use and safety, granted. I don't associate with people who don't carry. If you cannot take responsibility for your own protection then you are not responsible enough for me to be around you.

I reckon we need to turn the premise around: would you let your son, who is too lacking in responsibility to be trusted with arms, go out with my trained, armed daughter? Hoperfully, the question would be moot, in that my daughter had already been trained to value competency and responsibility in boys, and thus would not date your son.

One thing's for sure, she wouldn't go anywhere without an adult guardian until she could be trusted to be responsibly armed. Neither would a son. And I would either be working for a change in the law, or moving if I lived in a state that made carry without permission a felony on a first offense. That is digusting. Come to think of it, felony for the second offense is disgusting. Think I need to start looking into that.