SA for CCW?
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David E
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Interestingly, I was a bit more accurate with the single action, at least with the .357
I guess I was using the extra time required to manipulate the gun to also align the sights. Honestly, tho, if I had a few more rounds of practice, I'm sure I could dial it in with the DA guns.
As to putting the little finger beneath the grip, I thought about that on the way home. One handed, it made no difference, as I was able to readjust the grip while cocking the gun. Two handed, I don't recall for sure if the finger started beneath the grip or not, but come shot #5, it definately was not!
I'll try it again with the .45 Colt and see if it makes any difference with those loads.
This was the first time I'd fired my new Blackhawk and I liked it quite a bit. Once I had the sights pretty close (too windy to really sight it in) I shot at a 2" diameter tree that had sprung up on the side of the berm from about 20 yards away.
I used the magnum ammo and before the second cylinder was done, it fell.
An adjacent tree, slightly smaller, was felled with the wadcutter .38's, altho it took more shots.
Carl
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Most people with a semi-auto having the right and opportunity to lawfully shoot would probably fire multiple rounds to make sure the criminal goes down. With a SA in let's say .357 mag or .45 colt, would they even still be standing for multiple followup shots?
David E
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There are a couple items of note that I get out of this thread:
1) ANY gun beats no gun.
2) Skill with any given gun (SA, DA, Semi) should be sought after and attained.
3) Not all guns are equally suited for specific tasks.
4) If a single action is carried for defense, by choice or default, two hands work better and faster than one hand.
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1) ANY gun beats no gun.
2) Skill with any given gun (SA, DA, Semi) should be sought after and attained.
3) Not all guns are equally suited for specific tasks.
4) If a single action is carried for defense, by choice or default, two hands work better and faster than one hand.
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There's one more I can think of.
Especially under stress, one can get 6 shots off with a DA revolver and hit nothing. Well, you'll hit something, like a wall across the street.
That doesn't mean a SA is superior. It means that practice -- using the mode in which you are operating the gun -- is vitally important. Being able to get shots off is only part of the equation. I'm sure most of us have seen the security video of the clerk and the robber emptying their semiautos at each other at about 5 feet, across a checkout counter. Neither one of them got a scratch.
Especially under stress, one can get 6 shots off with a DA revolver and hit nothing. Well, you'll hit something, like a wall across the street.
That doesn't mean a SA is superior. It means that practice -- using the mode in which you are operating the gun -- is vitally important. Being able to get shots off is only part of the equation. I'm sure most of us have seen the security video of the clerk and the robber emptying their semiautos at each other at about 5 feet, across a checkout counter. Neither one of them got a scratch.
David E
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Practice with ANY gun is key.
I don't/won't carry a SA for defense on purpose, but I will carry one hunting or maybe hiking/camping. That means it might be used for defense, so it behooves me (and others with the same circumstances) to practice viable defense techniques with the SA.
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I don't/won't carry a SA for defense on purpose, but I will carry one hunting or maybe hiking/camping. That means it might be used for defense, so it behooves me (and others with the same circumstances) to practice viable defense techniques with the SA.
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CSA 357
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SO IF YOU DONT HAVE A 50 CLIP YOU AINT GOT ENOUGH SHOTS?
JImbothefiveth
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Other firearms have significant advantages. Revolvers are better if a round misfires, a g19 is lighter. The only advantages for a SA is that you can get the first shot faster from a specialised speed-shooting rig which you won't be using, some people can shoot it better than a DA because they don't practice enough with a DA, and it might point better for a few people.(And this can be beat with training.)
A SA is slow to reload, slower to fire, and a huge liability. Why should you handicap yourself?
There is very little advantage and a lot of drawbacks to using a SA revolver. There are advantages to using a g19 or DA revolver.
Considering that according to various sources .45 colt has less stopping power than even some 9mm loads, much less a .40 or .45, yes.
They should have practiced. Would they really have hit if they had used a SA and still not practiced, and resorted to not aiming?
In a life or death scenario, I want all the rounds I can have.
WardenWolf
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Single action isn't a good choice for CCW for two reasons:
(1) Safety. The only way for your gun to be ready for use is to have the hammer back. Revolvers lack any form of trigger safety, and thus you are left with a hair trigger that cannot be safely carried. And even if you are involved in a scenario that requires you to draw and cock, but not fire, you are now left with a pistol that you must very carefully make safe in order to avoid an accidental discharge.
(2) Speed. You cannot just draw and shoot. You instead must draw, cock the hammer, and fire. Then you must cock after every shot. You better hope your first shot downs him, or you're going to be heavily outgunned.
Single action revolvers are just not safe, and not fast enough for most modern carry scenarios. Their additional logistics add a higher degree of risk and liability, including the risk that you will not be able to fire first because you have to go through extra steps.
(1) Safety. The only way for your gun to be ready for use is to have the hammer back. Revolvers lack any form of trigger safety, and thus you are left with a hair trigger that cannot be safely carried. And even if you are involved in a scenario that requires you to draw and cock, but not fire, you are now left with a pistol that you must very carefully make safe in order to avoid an accidental discharge.
(2) Speed. You cannot just draw and shoot. You instead must draw, cock the hammer, and fire. Then you must cock after every shot. You better hope your first shot downs him, or you're going to be heavily outgunned.
Single action revolvers are just not safe, and not fast enough for most modern carry scenarios. Their additional logistics add a higher degree of risk and liability, including the risk that you will not be able to fire first because you have to go through extra steps.
Carl
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Mike, could pulling the hammer back on a SA while drawing be any slower than flicking off the safety of a 1911 while drawing? I'd think people carrying a SA would cock as they drew, if they knew they were going to shoot.
P.S. Jesus, I didn't think this topic would last this long. Thank you all.
P.S. Jesus, I didn't think this topic would last this long. Thank you all.
LOL
Translation: "I am about as familiar with single action shooting as I am with neurosurgery practiced by aliens on an unknown planet in a nameless galaxy several billion light years from earth."
I mean, there are good arguments against SA revolvers for defensive applications, given the state of modern firearms -- including the problem of safe decocking.
The ability of a practiced shooter to draw and fire a single action quickly isn't one of those arguments, however.
ATW525
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I'm not sure what "various sources" are, but that claim appears absurd unless they were comparing weak .45 Colt cowboy ammunition to defensive loadings in the other calibers. Buffalo Bore and Cor-Bon offer defensive loadings that launch 200 gr JHPs to the same velocity as .45 ACP +P loadings of the same weight. So, when you launch a 200 gr JHP at ~1100 fps out of a .45 ACP it's a man stopper, but when you launch the same bullet at the same velocity out of a .45 Colt it has less "stopping power" than 9mm?
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The original load may have been even more powerful. I recall an article by Mike Venturnio. He found original balloon head cases and was able to load 40 grains of Black in them.
My recollection was that he got 1000 fps with 255 lead bullets.
That is impressive.
Matt-J2
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Yep, it's around 1000 FPS. It ain't no powder puff load, that's certain. That big old RNFP or SWC bullet ain't exactly a Tic-Tac, either.
Hostile Amish
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If you are willing to practice fast-draw fast-cock etc. for a very long time...
Go for it.
Go for it.
It's a little apples and oranges but there are many, many people on the various shooting forums who are quite content to carry a Kel-Tec P3AT, a Ruger LCP, a seecamp, or a five-shot J-frame and feel adequately protected.
I would argue that someone who manages to carry a SA in a serious caliber and is proficient with it is more adequately protected.
I would argue that someone who manages to carry a SA in a serious caliber and is proficient with it is more adequately protected.
rdrancher
Member
David E - Thanks for the range info. Very interesting and informative!
rd
rd
WardenWolf
member
ArmedBear, you should never presume that most people are smart or competent. That is a fallacy of human reasoning. Always look towards the lowest common denominator. And also realize that people tend to bungle things under pressure. Sure that person may be practiced at the range, but are they REALLY ready to perform additional complex actions under fire? It's far better to be able to just pull the trigger.
Bat22
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1. Pick a weapon that feels good in your hands and is well within your control when firing.
2. Pick a CCW that you really can conceal, and which has sufficient stopping power.
3. Practice, practice, practice.
4. Be prepared to use your weapon and skills to take another human being down.
Then I don't think it should seriously matter if you're using a SAO revolver.
2. Pick a CCW that you really can conceal, and which has sufficient stopping power.
3. Practice, practice, practice.
4. Be prepared to use your weapon and skills to take another human being down.
Then I don't think it should seriously matter if you're using a SAO revolver.
I am not Wyatt Erp, I am not Jim March, or Munden or Miculek or even part of a Cowboy Action Club. Most people aren't and would be much better served by a DA revolver. Of course there are guys who can shoot SA fast with tons of practice, but if you are that willing to practice why not get good at something you also have the option of reloading fast?
I have a little of everything in the safe, but a spurless or concealed hammer DAO revolver or a DAO auto is the only guns I have any business carrying.
I only skimmed the thread, but has even one person (you, not your Grandpa) claimed to regularly carry a SA revolver?
I have a little of everything in the safe, but a spurless or concealed hammer DAO revolver or a DAO auto is the only guns I have any business carrying.
I only skimmed the thread, but has even one person (you, not your Grandpa) claimed to regularly carry a SA revolver?
SCBradley
Member
I regularly carry a .45 Colt Bond Arms Texas Defender. Gasp...
...only two shots, single action?
It's a wonder I haven't died a million times over.
...only two shots, single action?
It's a wonder I haven't died a million times over.
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