firemanstrickland
Member
m-21, you really can go wrong with a springfield, if you can afford it :banghead:
sniper rifle
- Thread starter Tape
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BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
Jeff56 said:
I wouldn't do that. Multiple registrations usually result in a ban.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Yes, multiple registrations is bad. Don't do that.
Have we finished with the question originally posed?
It doesn't look like Tape's going to come back and defend/explain his theories, so if there's nothing more to discuss about the original premise, perhaps we should close this.
Have we finished with the question originally posed?
It doesn't look like Tape's going to come back and defend/explain his theories, so if there's nothing more to discuss about the original premise, perhaps we should close this.
USSR
Member
Congratulations, you've accomplished both.
Don
Lets see, Sgt. Hathcock had some 90 sum kills using the M14 platform an 30/06 an a .50 cal.....The Top Nam Army sniper used the M14 platform for over 100 kills including a 800 yd. shot on a moving boat to kill a VC in a palm tree shooting at them...can't recall his name, an just saw on some gun show Sunday that a sniper just got 121 kills with what was pictured the M14 platform once again. The M14 might not get picked as the best "sniper" rifle....but it seems to work.
Nam Army sniper was Sgt. Adelbert F. Waldron III
Nam Army sniper was Sgt. Adelbert F. Waldron III
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SeekHer
Member
Firstly, there is a thing called a sniper rifle -- check any military or police armaments and their will be a listing for a sniper rifle or system--No4 Mk(T), M21, M24, M40 etc.
Weatherby, Kimber, Remington, Lazzeroni, Savage, Thompson Centre etc. all have tactical or Threat Response or Law Enforcement etc. titles and also let's not forget the Europeans with the Blaser, Sako, SIG, FN, Steyr, H&K all list police and sniper rifles in their sales catalogues.
Yes, it is the gun that makes the shooter--I put my 150# rail gun with a 40x Leupold scope on the bench and once balanced and sighted properly my 6 year old daughter could (and did) fire one hole five shot groups at 100 yards till the creeks ran dry and at 300 yds the groups would open up to just over an inch.
Also, which sniper are we dealing with--military or police as there are different criteria needed for each type of shooting...Why does a police SWAT shooter need a gun for 1,000M ranges when the majority of ALL LEO sniper shootings happen within 100 yds (89% FBI statistics) and the majority of them (78%) within 50 yds...Which is why companies offer 20" LRP rifles for law enforcement usage.
Also, please note that the Barrett .50 BMG rifles that the military use are NOT considered sniper rifles--even though they are used as such--but as anti materiel rifles.
Well the ultimate Long Range Precision (LPR) rifle that I would buy is the Unique Alpine from Bavaria which starts at $6,400.
Barrett, McMillan and Chey-Tac make good rifles but so does Chad Dixon of LongRifles Inc., Tactical Rifles, Iron Brigade, Texas Brigade, HS Precision, Accuracy International, Cactus Weapons Systems, GA Precision, CDN-Prairie Gun Works, CDN-Armament Technology and dozens of other custom makers and all will start in the $3,500.
The rule of thumb in benchrest shooting is "if you want accuracy, you have to pay for it"! Excluding gunsmiths who do their own builds I doubt if there is a gun under $4,500 on the firing line at a noted shoot...If you look at the F-Class and light 1K shooters you'll see the exact same rigs that the world's military use for their sniper rifles.
Weatherby, Kimber, Remington, Lazzeroni, Savage, Thompson Centre etc. all have tactical or Threat Response or Law Enforcement etc. titles and also let's not forget the Europeans with the Blaser, Sako, SIG, FN, Steyr, H&K all list police and sniper rifles in their sales catalogues.
Yes, it is the gun that makes the shooter--I put my 150# rail gun with a 40x Leupold scope on the bench and once balanced and sighted properly my 6 year old daughter could (and did) fire one hole five shot groups at 100 yards till the creeks ran dry and at 300 yds the groups would open up to just over an inch.
Also, which sniper are we dealing with--military or police as there are different criteria needed for each type of shooting...Why does a police SWAT shooter need a gun for 1,000M ranges when the majority of ALL LEO sniper shootings happen within 100 yds (89% FBI statistics) and the majority of them (78%) within 50 yds...Which is why companies offer 20" LRP rifles for law enforcement usage.
Also, please note that the Barrett .50 BMG rifles that the military use are NOT considered sniper rifles--even though they are used as such--but as anti materiel rifles.
Well the ultimate Long Range Precision (LPR) rifle that I would buy is the Unique Alpine from Bavaria which starts at $6,400.
Barrett, McMillan and Chey-Tac make good rifles but so does Chad Dixon of LongRifles Inc., Tactical Rifles, Iron Brigade, Texas Brigade, HS Precision, Accuracy International, Cactus Weapons Systems, GA Precision, CDN-Prairie Gun Works, CDN-Armament Technology and dozens of other custom makers and all will start in the $3,500.
The rule of thumb in benchrest shooting is "if you want accuracy, you have to pay for it"! Excluding gunsmiths who do their own builds I doubt if there is a gun under $4,500 on the firing line at a noted shoot...If you look at the F-Class and light 1K shooters you'll see the exact same rigs that the world's military use for their sniper rifles.
SeekHer
Member
Oops, but Hathcock didn't use an M14 for his shooting but at the start a Winchester Model 70 .30/06 target job that the National Match teams used and then mounted an 8x Unertl scope to it
He did use the M14 that he mounted a 10x Unertl scope to for some period but the majority of his kills were done with a bolt job.
The .50 he used was from a M2 machine gun that he mounted the scope on to shoot the bicycle porter at 2,500 yds/2,286 m--the then longest range ever shot by a sniper and got into deep doo-doo for it with the Red Cross for Hague convention infractions.
Waldron used the M-21 not the stock M14.
The M-21 Waldron used was a M14 National Match quality weapon with a Leatherwood 3X-9X Adjustable Ranging Telescope (ART) and the standard leather M1907 sling. Rock Island Arsenal converted some 1,435 of these weapons for use as sniper weapons and sent them to Vietnam in 1969. From then on it was the primary Army sniper rifle until 1988.
SeekHer
Member
Condescendingly Accurate?
It's the small things that foul use up as a group against the antis and hopefully it will stop the inaccuracy from spreading through the Internet.
US military uses predominantly M4 right? Guess what kids, unless you are in the military and go through sniper training, no rifle you ever buy is a sniper rifle. It's just a sniper's rifle in the hands of an untrained rifleman. I think if most people realized how much of "sniping" involves mathematics, slope-dopers, and calculations, and lots of meticulous number crunching - and a sack full of optics- a lot of couch commandos would look for some other pretend game to play.
Sometimes me and my 2 year old daughter pretend we are venison eating dinosaurs, it's much more realistic and fun than pretending we are snipers.
Sometimes me and my 2 year old daughter pretend we are venison eating dinosaurs, it's much more realistic and fun than pretending we are snipers.
Please don't lock this thread Sam, proof of my claims is going to take some time, I sure many mechanical engineers know what I'm saying is fact, the only way I know to prove what I say is to do it again. I have emailed some colleagues of mine to see what equipment they have then I will video everything, just to setup the vise takes aprox 2 hours. I have a degree in mechanical engineering and in 2002 I was working towards my masters to be completed in 7 months but, in Feb 2002 I was involved in a auto accident which fractured my C5 and C6 vertebrae’s, I was bedridden for 2 years and my career was over. I can move around but can’t stand for periods of time but I can get everything together and prove my claims if I can get the equipment, which I believe I can but it’s not going to happen overnight. I am doing this for the sake of engineering and still do not care if you all think I am bonkers. My friend already ok’d to use his hangar.
Well sir God bless you for being willing to put it to the test!
Are you taking any requests on firearms to use for the test? Maybe that should be a different thread. I'd be interested in something like
'mosin vs 700 @ 200yds'
or
'glock vs 700 @ 75yds'
Are you taking any requests on firearms to use for the test? Maybe that should be a different thread. I'd be interested in something like
'mosin vs 700 @ 200yds'
or
'glock vs 700 @ 75yds'
Bonesinium
Member
Not sure where the mention to "at any range" was, so I am going to assume he doesn't believe that you would get a one hole group of 5 shots at say, 1000 yards. However, at 50-100 yards, in a good vice, using good ammo, I would imagine almost any upper end rifle designed for precision shooting would shoot a 1 hole 5 shot group indoors.
Exactly, I know it won't happen at 1000 yards, never said it would, I would be impressed if it happened at 200 yards which I do believe it is possible but........ As I said; 50 yards is the longest indoor range I ever experienced.
let's not make rules as we go, I'm going to prove what I posted on this thread.
that doesnt tell you anything about accuracy...
..heck, at 50 yards, im sure a 1.5MOA gun is fully capable of "one hole groups"......but that doesnt mean a 1.5MOA gun is as accurate as a .25 MOA gun....as you seemingly implied in your first post, or your signature.
50 yds isnt "testing" any rifle......its no rifle is struggling to be accurate at 50 yds.........if you want to see what a rifle will do, you need to test at at least at 100yds minimum....200-400 would be more ideal
thats like saying my ford focus is as fast as a nascar........over the course of 30 feet.
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Boy, it sure sounds like you people are worried, I do not know where 100, 200 or 1000 yards came into play, I never said it, I said "indoor range" and 50yards. I will bet anything that a human cannot shoot 3 bullets of their choice and leave 1 hole at 50 yards but the equipment I put together will, this is what you all wanted me to prove is it not. Show me where I posted anything different. Think before you talk, don't talk then think about what you said. This is exactly why I wanted to drop this issue, can you see where it's going? I did! This will not be the first time I've done this.
as I have already stated; not possible unless it's indoors then there is a chance, outdoors too many factors come into play.
it sounds to me as though you are the one that is worried......
you said "indoor" with no regards to range......im willing to bet most people took that as to mean to negate the effects of wind.....not limiting distance factor.
you are designing your test around your claims, to prove them right....thats bad science.
hell, i can make statements that my pellet gun is as accurate as a sniper rifle..........and i can make a whole set up and test them both at 20 yds......doesnt make it nearly right...
.....you arent fooling anyone with this "test"......its pretty blatant that you are trying to cover for your previous statements by sandbagging the test to get the results you want.
and as for your statement "I will bet anything that a human cannot shoot 3 bullets of their choice and leave 1 hole at 50 yards"
apparently youve never seen a good shooter before.......1 hole groups at 50yds are not all that difficult......hell, ive shot 1 hole groups at 100yds with a .22 (ive got targets if you want proof)
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