Taurus Judge

[RX-178]

I dislike Taurus, for what I consider to be disingenuous marketing that they use for the Judge. They market it as a hand held shotgun for defense, when every single water jug or ballistic gelatin test that's been done on it has proven it is unsuited for the job when loaded with .410 shells.

Of course, I also dislike HK's company policies, but I carry a USP .45 Tactical because I can't fault the quality of the product.

I don't find anything wrong with the Judge as a product. In my view, it is a .45 Long Colt revolver that can fire .410 shells. That's a darned useful combination, and means you can easily carry just one handgun to handle snakes, and personal defense, and use ammo that you can pick up at wally world. (I haven't found any pistol or revolver caliber snakeshot locally to date) I like that.

 

[chanroc]

I have a Judge with the 2.5" chamber and the 3 inch barrel. I love it. I disagree about it being a poor self defense gun for the home. Using Federal's buckshot for the Judge gave me a nice tight fist size group of 4 000 buck holes in a target at 7 yards. Also, I was surprised how accurate the .45 colt shot out of it...again at 7 yards. Those were CCI Blazer 200gr JHP. As to using shot shells, they spread out pretty quick even at 5 yards and I was using #4 shot.

I also like the fiber optic sight and how it grips in my hands (which surprised me). While there a probably better home defense guns, I can't think of any better that handle snakes as well. Still, I've only used .22lr shot shells and those were anemic. I haven't tried any other caliber for snakes. I've had no issues mechanically with the Judge, and had a Taurus PT-92 from the 90s that shot just as good as my Glock and never had a problem with it either (I sold it and regret doing so). Curious what you think of it. Good luck!

 

[RX-178]

Welcome to THR, chanroc!

To be more specific on what I don't like about Taurus and the Judge, let me start off by being more specific about what I /do/ like about it.

First, it's a good .45 long colt revolver. It's not as accurate with the .45LC as, say a Ruger Redhawk, but it also costs about $200 less than a Ruger. And it has the versatility of also loading .410 shells for dealing with snakes.

My problem is, that even with a Judge as your weapon, there is no reason to use a .410 shell for personal or home defense. The same weapon can fire .45 long colt, which has been proven by at least 3 or 4 water jug/ballistic gelatin tests to be superior for defense, even over the Federal Judge buckshot load. The .45 long colt has been proven to have better penetration than a .410 SLUG in the same tests.

That has nothing to do with the function of the weapon. The problem is, Taurus aggressively markets the Judge as having shotgun firepower in a hand held revolver, and advertises using .410 buckshot as a defensive load when using the Judge. They're using the gimmick of firing shotgun shells to sell the product, even when it's not in the best interests of their customers, and that's what I dislike about it.

 

[greyling22]

you know what also works really well on snakes? a rock. sticks too. save your money for something fun to shoot.

full disclosure: I hate the judge and I've never shot it. it's bad revolver design and a worse shotgun. A miracle in marketing though. It's huge for a revolver for such a short barrel. the chamber has to be too long to be really effective with the 45LC, and the .410 has no place in my life. if you need ratshot, buy ratshot 357's. but hey, I've got 5 shotguns and 3 pistol caliber lever action rifles, who am I to talk about buying based on a NEED. if you want a judge, buy a judge. I'd never buy a PT cruiser but Chrysler sure sold a lot of them, so what do I know.

 

[suemarkp]

There are certainly worse loads than four 000 buckshot pellets at once. The advantage of the buck loads is reduced penetration in an urban environment. The 45 colt may have better stopping power, but it will penetrate your neighbor's house too. Buckshot is a short range proposition, especially in the judge because it doesn't start out very fast.

Perhaps the ideal home defense round would be the 460 S&W loaded with three .45 balls (payload would weigh about 420 grains!). Less penetration than a normal 45 bullet, but you get three holes at once.

I like the judge because I was just not happy with the performance of 45 colt rounds loaded with shot using Speer shot cups. The factory shot cup rounds are limited to #9 shot --snakes only! But when you start handloading using #7.5, #6, or BB, the 45 Colt just doesn't have the capacity. The 410 does. The 460 S&W does. But the 460 S&W weighs a ton...

 

[Dimis]

Im an owner of a 3x3 judge (3 inch chamber 3 inch bbl) and have loved it every second

I know its not a great self defense gun but as my old sig said "Nobody wants to stand in front of a judge"
Ive taken snakes on my property with it effectivly enough i mean realisticly how dead can ya get? 12 gauge at 5 feet dead? what exactly is our gauge here?

I would say get it the thing works and better yet makes people angry that your not only a taurus owner but a judge owner too

full disclosure: I hate the judge and I've never shot it. it's bad revolver design and a worse shotgun. A miracle in marketing though. It's huge for a revolver for such a short barrel. the chamber has to be too long to be really effective with the 45LC, and the .410 has no place in my life. if you need ratshot, buy ratshot 357's. but hey, I've got 5 shotguns and 3 pistol caliber lever action rifles, who am I to talk about buying based on a NEED. if you want a judge, buy a judge. I'd never buy a PT cruiser but Chrysler sure sold a lot of them, so what do I know.

So you basicly are saying that due to your own stuborness its not a good gun?
having absolutly no experience with one you can determine that it is an inferior product?
how is it a bad design? i mean its miles ahead of the old thunder 5
Its honestly not that big if you have ever held a smith 500 its alot more to try and wrangle... for the most part my judge handles as well as my ruger 357
the chamber being long does effect the 45 but its not detrimental you have to be honest with yourself if you bought one of these its not to shoot 45 accuratly (or at least as accuratly as a gun designed just for colts)
410 may not have a place in your life but some of us love the little shotshell that could makes for great snake loads and a heck of a challenge for skeet
oh and i wouldnt buy a PT Cruiser either theyre just ugly and slow (even the GT model)

 

[nonseven]

I think the judge will do what you want quite handily. I've got a public defender, and just bought a 3 inch barrel ultralight. Not only are they a blast to shoot, but they are quite versatile. The ultralight would be nice if you carry a lot and shoot little, but the regular steel version would be better if you shoot more often. I think Taurus quality has gotten better -- you don't hear about nearly as many problems these days.

 

[daryl711]

I think I am going to buy one. Now my problem is I found a new Judge, blue,3 in barrel and Mag version for $530 out the door. Just wondering if being able to shoot 3 in shells worth an extra $100.

 

[Dougr6]

What you need is a "Super Comanche". For $160 dollars you get a H.D. Stainless, single shot. 410/.45 pistol. Shoots 3" shells okay. 13 inch long overall. Has safe hammer.
Good gun for snakes and to leave in truck and not worry about losing a more expensive
weapon.

 

[Beach Nut]

I happen to have the 6.5" Judge with a non ported barrel. It produces a
18" spread at about fifteen feet with #4 shot. It is also reasonably accurate
with .45LC loads. I bought it as a fun gun, but after seeing what it could
do with birdshot, I realized I had an answer for the copperhead problem
in my back yard (I usually kill three or more in my yard every year). The
3" barrel pattern may open up at fifteen feet. I'd look for the Judge in
a longer barrel length if you are looking for a trail gun. You will also
notice increased accuracy with the .45 LC loads.

 

[wrs840]

Just wondering if being able to shoot 3 in shells worth an extra $100.

I don't think so. It just adds extra bulk to a Judge for no reason. Magnum shells, IMO, have only one asset: A little more range (maybe 10%) when game hunting with "real" game shotguns. Think geese. A Judge is a very-close-range weapon.

I happen to have the 6.5" Judge with a non ported barrel. It produces a
18" spread at about fifteen feet with #4 shot.

This sounds about right. My 3" bbl Judge will produce a 18" spread with #4 at about twelve feet.

"buck shot at about 20 feet will stay in a 3 inch circle on a paper plate... Bird shot ... will fill that same paper plate at 20 feet..."

^^^^
This is a real head-scratcher for me. Mine sure won't do that. 20 feet is more like a 30" pattern with mine.

The Judge is not a useless gun. Over-estimating it as some sort of do-all solution is not a good idea though, IMO. It's a Jim-Dandy snake gun that will also serve you pretty well shooting .45LC at 50-70 feet or so.

FWIW,
Les

 

[5532JWK]

My Judge with the 410 buckshot works great at short distances.

 

[daryl711]

Dougr6

I went to two gunshops looking for a Super Comanche and both said," you don't want that gun". Neither gave me a precise reason but recommended I stay away from it. So sort of put me off.

 

[chanroc]

This might be getting off topic and I appologize if it is, but has anyone compared Federal's Judge buckshot load (4 000 buck pellets in the 2.5) vs the normal 2.5 shell with just 3 #000 pellets? I don't have enough evidence to support it, but I've had better luck getting tighter groups with Federal's buckshot load than the normal Winchester shells. It might be that I'm just use to the gun now and the only buckshot load I could only get back then was the traditional buckshot shells. Anyhow, since I live in a condo, I'm going to stick with 3 of the 4 000 buck shells and 2 200gr JHP .45 rounds in it for home defense. My other night stand gun is a 2.5" S&W 586 loaded with the good old .38 Special FBI load. As I said before, the Judge is a fun gun. As an alternative, you might want to look at the Bond Arms .45/.410 derringer. It got a nice write up on Gunblast. It's a little beefier than a traditional derringer, yet a lot smaller than the Judge. I appreciate the feedback on this topic. Good luck to the original poster.

 

[Guns and more]

I just bought a Bond Snakeslayer IV. Looks like a derringer but much bigger. Super quality, 2 rounds of .410.
There is a lot more .410 out there due to the popularity of the Judge.
I bought the Winchester DPX that has 3 discs and 12 BB's.
Along with two different kinds of Buckshot. One is 000 and the other 00. strangely, both have 4 pellets.
Just for fun I'm going to try some birdshot to look at the pattern also.
I'm not sure how ranges look at the Bond or Judge; shotgun or pistol?
I don't mind going on a shotgun range, but I want to pattern at 10'-20'.

 

[jim goose]

I do not know why? But all the talk and mind altering marketing makes me feel like I need one in quiver.

 

[TheEasy1]

Good review of the Taurus Judge.

Opinions vary about the Judge, but the gang at www.survivalreviews.com have a nice review article. I think they tested #4 shot and Federal Premium 000 Buck.

http://www.survivalreviews.com/index.php/reviews/reviewsguns/154-taurus

I am definitely buying one of these!

 

[Brian Williams]

I will not buy one of these.

 

[Guillermo]

Were it me I would not buy a Judge. They are not very good shotguns and they are not very good 45's.

Some folks love them but I just don't get it.

Get a good revolver and either load it with snake shot or just practice a little (shoot low) and you can become a snake slayer extraordinaire

 

[MCgunner]

I pretty much agree with Guillermo, though I do see a niche for the guns in thin walled apartments. God help me if I ever have to live in an apartment again, though, LOL. I kinda like the little PD, but hey, you could shorten the heck out of it by just making it a .45Colt.... I have little use for the .410 in one. I have a TC barrel in .410, fun, has a choke, gives it some range.

Snakes. I get a chuckle out of those worried about snakes and those that think if they hve to kill one, they can't do it with a bullet. Hell, I've shot rattlers with a 1 5/8" NAA mini using a hollow point before. Hitting a snake's head at 10 feet isn't that tough. I've even done it with the snake on the move. No real need to kill a snake. Ain't like I'm going to thin 'em out or anything, but they are decent battered and fried and are easy to skin/clean. Makes for some fun walk abouts in the spring. I just take a .22 or might take along my Contender with the .410 barrel. If I hear a hog in the brush, I can pull the choke off and load a .44 mag equivalent handload pretty quickly. Stronger gun than the Judge.

Now, I'm wondering about this new "Raging Judge". I bet it weighs as much as my Remington M7, though.

 

[Guillermo]

they can't do it with a bullet

In their defense it does take practice McG. You have to fire, according to your sites, very low.

That said, I do not load with snake shot anymore. I can hit em'.

And you are not the most conventional thinker either. Dodn't you power your weed wacker with a 250cc Suzuki 2 stroke?

 

[MCgunner]

And you are not the most conventional thinker either. Dodn't you power your weed wacker with a 250cc Suzuki 2 stroke?

Well, I had a TZ250 on it, but got tired of rebuilding the top end every lap around the yard. FAST, though. ....

 

[weregunner]

I won't buy a Judge either, but for the following reasons.

I own a Taurus 441, 4 inch barrel, .44 Special revolver. It does anything the Judge would do as far as single projectiles go.

For snakes the .44 Special snake shot put out by CCI will kill any snake within realistic shooting distances for a situation like this.

I also own other Tauri,Ruger, or Rossi revolvers that will fill all my needs and niches.

On the other hand I do recognize that for many the Judge does fill their needs or as a fun gun.

No, I have no need for one, but I am not going to dump on other shooters or the gun itself. There is a plethora of Judge types to fill the bill for close in defense. Do realize that there are limitations and some handicaps for having a hand gun that is not good for anything, but room length or closer encounters. If it goes beyond that one is in trouble.

Yes, I know that a lot of encounters are up close and personal. If the attacker/s are steaming up your fur then the Judge works out well.

There are many cases where the range goes beyond telephone booth distance encounters. In that case the regular one bullet at a time handgun is a better choice. Yes, there might be some exceptions.

Don't assume that all attacks are the same or that the circumstances of the attack will be.

 

[nonseven]

I recently chrono'd the new Winchester PDX1 (3 disk and 12 BB) 410 self defense round out of a 3" 2 1/2" cylinder judge.

The payload weighed aout 300 grains, and clocked about 725 fps out of the judge. That's kinetic energy of 350 ft lbs. Pretty decent recoil too.

For comparison, I shot my S&W 632 with a 3" barrel (ported with expansion chamber, leaving about 2 2/3" effective barrel length) in 327 Federal with the 115 gr speer gold dot factory load.

Now shooting those side by side, I would have sworn that the 410 load had more energy, but the 115 grain bullet from the .327 catridge chrono'd at 1400 fps out of that little Smith, producing an energy of 500 ft lbs!

Therein lies the question about the Judge for self-defense with buckshot, do any or all of those lead balls have enough velocity for adequate penetration?

But it sure will kill a snake.

 

[Guillermo]

I am not going to dump on other shooters or the gun itself

hopefully nobody takes any of this personally.

different strokes.

I don't understand it but this is, or was recently, america. They can buy em buy the dozen as far as I am concerned