Confederate
Member
You forgot "OVERPRICED!"
The best 1911 I've seen out-of-the-box is the S&W 645 (or 4506). It's pretty much just a double-action version of the 1911, only it never jams.
The 1911 pistol: Obsolete, irrelevant and immaterial
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The best 1911 I've seen out-of-the-box is the S&W 645 (or 4506). It's pretty much just a double-action version of the 1911, only it never jams.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Deanimator
Member
I have a Glock 22 but I'm not a big fan of the .40 S&W. I find the .45 S&W much easier to shoot. I'm not in any hurry to buy another .40 S&W.
If either of those guns has the "safe action" type trigger like the Glock, the trigger would be ok, but if the grip isn't significantly smaller than that of the Glock 21, the .45 versions of these guns wouldn't be acceptable. Conventional SA/DA or DAO are unacceptable to me.
Personally, while I don't have a problem with Glock type triggers, I prefer single action. That's why I like the M1911 and the HiPower.
Deanimator
Member
Other than the basic Browning type short recoil action, the DA Smiths have NOTHING to do with the M1911.
If you think M1911s are "expensive", I suggest you look at the Rock Island and other Philippine M1911s. They're good guns at a very attractive price.
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longknife12
Member
For those of us that carried....and used.....the M1911A1 will live forever!
Dan
Dan
SAWBONES
Member
I'm always amused by the yahoos who criticize Jeff Cooper, and who demean the 1911 pistol as a defensive pistol, compared to some more recent pistol offering.
Of course, none of those who fit this description have ever done anything to advance personal protection training like Cooper, and none have had anything worthwhile to contribute regarding sidearm choice or application.
Those of us who have Gunsite training and who recognize the peculiar and particular virtues of the 1911 pistol think these modern dinks who seem to have unfounded opinions about everything are just fools.
Sure, pistol training does advance, and pistol designs evolve, but the older ways and equipment never become useless or obsolete.
Of course, none of those who fit this description have ever done anything to advance personal protection training like Cooper, and none have had anything worthwhile to contribute regarding sidearm choice or application.
Those of us who have Gunsite training and who recognize the peculiar and particular virtues of the 1911 pistol think these modern dinks who seem to have unfounded opinions about everything are just fools.
Sure, pistol training does advance, and pistol designs evolve, but the older ways and equipment never become useless or obsolete.
I am currently shooting Bullseye Pistol and these are what I am shooting:
The M1911 type pistol is the most common pistol on the firing line. It is mandatory for the 45 ACP match and it is the most common basis for centerfire. I see lots of 22 LR shooters using a M1911 grip frame. The M1911 has been developed to a superbly accurate pistol with an outstanding trigger pull.
But, if I carried a semi auto pistol for defense it would be in this configuration.
No external safety which might be on, when you want it off, or off, when you want it on. A heavy double action trigger first pull.
The M1911 has a lot of fans, but I am not going to carry one for self defense. I'll shoot it in competition.
The M1911 type pistol is the most common pistol on the firing line. It is mandatory for the 45 ACP match and it is the most common basis for centerfire. I see lots of 22 LR shooters using a M1911 grip frame. The M1911 has been developed to a superbly accurate pistol with an outstanding trigger pull.
But, if I carried a semi auto pistol for defense it would be in this configuration.
No external safety which might be on, when you want it off, or off, when you want it on. A heavy double action trigger first pull.
The M1911 has a lot of fans, but I am not going to carry one for self defense. I'll shoot it in competition.
Bama Drifter
Member
^ Aha, I think above post wins the thread. A 1911 at its very essence is a chunk of well designed, machined steel that seems out of place in this world of injection molded plastic, pot metal and throw-away Bic lighters. I think it is like a strop and straight razor... kind of takes practice to master, but well worth the effort!Harley Davidsons, Zippos, Jeeps, Katanas, Corvettes, Stetsons and 1911s......all antiquated, obsolete, worthless and soon to be but a dim memory relegated to the dustbin of history.
JTQ
Member
RE: SIG P220 vs 1911
With a 1911, your thumb is always on the safety. It is part of the way you grip the gun. You don't forget it's there since you are alway in contact with it. With a decocker, it is something you need to remember since it requires a specific action to get to the decocker. It is less intuitive than a 1911 safety and more likely to be forgotten.
While I'm not a SIG guy, I have a lot of experience with S&W Traditional Double Action Autos and 1911's. In my experience, I'm much more likely to forget to decock the TDA Autos rather than miss the safety on a 1911.
With a 1911, your thumb is always on the safety. It is part of the way you grip the gun. You don't forget it's there since you are alway in contact with it. With a decocker, it is something you need to remember since it requires a specific action to get to the decocker. It is less intuitive than a 1911 safety and more likely to be forgotten.
My first .45ACP pistol was a Kimber Classic Gold Match, for the very first year of production. It's also the prettiest, with that deep, highly polished blue finish, and gorgeous rosewood grips. It spoiled me for accuracy. Even now, after having owned at least 15 or 16 1911A1 pistols, I work hard to shoot good accurate groups with most of the others, but when the Kimber comes out, my shooting buddies OOOOO and AHHHHH at the targets. The Kimber likes just about any ammo except Federal. It also likes ONLY Wilson Combat 8-round mags, so I now have "a few" of those.
Not the most expensive pistol out there, but one amazing pistol in my book.
Not the most expensive pistol out there, but one amazing pistol in my book.
TomJ
Contributing Member
I own a number of 1911's as well as plastic guns and love them all, so I'm neutral on this. The marketplace is the most accurate indicator of when something becomes obsolete, and based on the number of 1911's still being sold, the answer is a definitive no. When that day comes, we'll know as manufacturers will not spend time, effort and money making a product no one wants.
contactcole
Member
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2004
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- 65
I shoot the 1911 best of any handgun platform. That remains relevant and material to me.
rskent
Member
MIL-DOT
on a square range with a solid two hand hold. I am talking about one handed in less than perfect conditions.
When something goes bump in the night I will grab my flashlight and my Colt thank you very much.
Yea, I don't think so. The 1911 pattern pistol is far and above the most “shootable” pistol there is. For most people and certainly for me the 1911 is just easier to hit with. I'm not talking about hitting
on a square range with a solid two hand hold. I am talking about one handed in less than perfect conditions.
When something goes bump in the night I will grab my flashlight and my Colt thank you very much.
Zerodefect
member
It's surely archaic, but it's still the highest performance pistol out there. That's why it still rules the games. And it's still a great choice for a fighting pistol, it's just that it's heavy, and expensive.
Sure the Glock 35 and 41 are really darn close when tuned up right, but the 1911 still has the best pistol trigger ever made.
Imagine a new 1911 with a modern linkless barrel, and Glock mags........
Sure the Glock 35 and 41 are really darn close when tuned up right, but the 1911 still has the best pistol trigger ever made.
Imagine a new 1911 with a modern linkless barrel, and Glock mags........
This.For those of us that carried....and used.....the M1911A1 will live forever!
Dan
Deanimator
Member
It'd be less accurate than a decent M1911 and be too big for a lot of people to hold properly in one hand.
When I carry a 9x19mm gun, I carry a Glock or a Browning Hi Power.
When I carry a .45acp gun, it'll NEVER be anything other than an M1911 or an N Frame Smith. Any other .45acp semi-auto is like holding a 2x4. And conventional double action autos are off the table from the start.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
I am glad that this was brought to my attention. Never cared for the damn things anyway so may as well start with tossing these in the trash then the remainder of these useless 1911 junk guns.
Ron
Ron
Yes 'overpriced'. Those can be beaten by $300 Ruger P90 .45ACP. Very durable and reliable pistol. I had couple of S&W 457s but Ruger can be had for less then used value line S&W now that is a value. When it comes to reliability, durability and value in used .45ACP DA/SA Ruger can NOT be beaten.You forgot "OVERPRICED!"
The best 1911 I've seen out-of-the-box is the S&W 645 (or 4506). It's pretty much just a double-action version of the 1911, only it never jams.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
I am glad that this was brought to my attention. Never cared for the damn things anyway so may as well start with tossing these in the trash then the remainder of these useless 1911 junk guns.
Ron
Let me know when garbage pickup is at your house. I'll take care of your garbage that day.
I am neither a cultist nor a Kool-Aid drinker. I still think the 1911 makes a great home defense nightstand weapon. Its a heavy brute with limited magazine capacity. Still, I think few guns can match its excellent trigger which aids accuracy. I have owned a Springfield Armory model for 20 plus years and never ceased to be amazed with its accuracy. BTW, its not my nightstand gun as I prefer a Smith and Wesson Model 10 for that role.
Hardtarget
Member
I received a Colt 1911 this past March(2015). A gift from my employer for 45 years service. I'd only shot a 1911 maybe three times in my life but I sure do like this gun! The only change I'll make is a ambi safety to better suit my left hand shooting. Disassemble, clean it,lube it, shoot it ! No malfunctions yet. All my reloads.
Mark
Mark
Reloadron
Contributing Member
I have no reservation with using this small Kimber as a nightstand gun. The gun came along at a very good deal and never thought I would have any interest in a 3" barrel 1911 type gun. However, the little gun proved itself and has always performed flawlessly for me. I guess it could be replaced with any of my revolvers but I actually trust the little gun, with our lives.
Ron
.45cultist
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I use a Chip McCormick extended hammer safety. my thumb or trigger finger can manipulate it. My trigger finger can hit the slide stop just find and adds safety since it is off the trigger. The Wilson extended safety is too big in MY opinion, the Chip McCormick doesn't stick out as far, yet lets me manipulate it with my southpaw.
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