The Antis are wearing me down.

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I like the folks who take a few Karate/Judo etc. classes and then think they have it all over folks with guns.
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I have a black belt (for whatever that is worth) and I will tell you right NOW that if you draw a bead on me, I will not be going all "Fists of Fury" on you.

Those that somehow believe that "My kung-fu is superior to your .357" has watched WAY too many movies. Hopefully, they will learn before they do something really stupid.


John
 
Phobia schmobia. This country somehow has raised a bunch of sissies, who who have no inertia to defend themselves against agression. Some spooky mutation, that the will to survive gene has withered away. Too much fast food and television or something. Oleg, good idea, start slow and basic, and somehow plant a clue.
 
Don't forget to change the frame of reference either... everybody likes to think from their own perspective; but put them in the perspective of an elderly woman, someone who is physically disabled, or someone who is just plain smaller. Check out the Armed Citizen online for true stories that help illustrate the point you are making.

People can argue against an abstract hypothetical; but it is harder when you make that situation real for them by showing that an older woman DID recently defend herself using those references.

Finally, remember to stay polite and take a break when you feel you aren't going to be able to do that. One of the games antis like to play (particularly online where they can do it in safety) is to try and provoke you into rage or into saying something angrily... then they make their point by showing that you can't control yourself online and here you are carrying a gun in public (because of course, saying something snotty online is just like pulling your CCW and shooting the teenager behind the counter because you explicitly said "no ketchup on my hamburger").
 
People can argue against an abstract hypothetical; but it is harder when you make that situation real for them by showing that an older woman DID recently defend herself using those references.
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Exactly!
 
Thank You ATW525, I was gonna end up having to call the state police to have them clarify. How quickly can you load a rifle w/a detachable magazine (I def. would take safety courses, both the basic and carry course before even carrying the unloaded long gun)? I've heard a couple seconds if your good.
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You're probably best off asking such questions in "Rifle Country".
 
That's funny, I'm a regular in usenet talk.politics.guns and I've got them by the throat and am vigorously shaking them, like an iguana with a house cat! :D

1. Argue logically with the logical.
2. Point out the illogic of the illogical.
3. Humiliate the dishonest.
4. Archive useful quotes. I GUARANTEE you they'll come in handy later, especially "liberals" using racial, religious, and ethnic slurs. They're the gift that just keeps on giving!
 
Don't forget to change the frame of reference either... everybody likes to think from their own perspective; but put them in the perspective of an elderly woman, someone who is physically disabled, or someone who is just plain smaller. Check out the Armed Citizen online for true stories that help illustrate the point you are making.
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See my sig. It makes people think, and drives the worst of the anti-gunners into an insane rage.

Nothing changes minds like seeing an anti declare that women should allow themselves to be raped to protect a rapist.
 
Don't forget to change the frame of reference either...
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This is absolutely true. And what do lots of Liberals dislike (I know, I'm one, except the gun thing)? It's GW Bush. So use their logic against them. I often get the, "In 2007, the idea of fighting tyranny is an outdated one" or something about "enlightened society." I just say, "Well then, Bush is the perfect example of why you should support the Second Amendment. Patriot Act, Signing Statements, Unitary Executive, Habeas Corpus, etc." Surprisingly enough, I've had some success with that one. You may disagree with their politics, but use their own frame of reference to prove your point.

Noops
 
Good advice!

This is the link to a debate I'm involved in. http://www.ultimaterockgods.com/index.php?topic=638.0
PLEASE cut and past the link, if you go to it and PLEASE don't reference THR.

It takes a lot of time to Google statistics etc. and I think it would be wonderful if someone could create an Internet armory of facts and talking points, to help us present our side.
 
Horsesense,

The "gun in the home makes you more likely" argument that Party Boy uses is one that you can throw out easily. The Kellerman study that that was based on has largely been debunked, and when it was debunked Kellerman et al refused to release their data. Very poor science.

On the other hand, definitely don't use John Lott either. Plenty of his work has been debunked too unfortunately.

As for "only the police and NG should have guns" a couple of things:

1) Seedy hidden little fact in American crime: While police love to tout their amazing 911 response times, the average time it actually takes for crimes to be reported is over 41 minutes. All that money on 911 response...and you're going to be behind the curve.

2) Castle Rock v Gonzales ruled that civilians to not have a "right" to protection from the state (police or military). So, LEGALLY, the police can and often do refuse to intervene.

3) This one is fun. Want to trust the police? http://www.cato.org/raidmap/
 
Green Lantern said:
"Another at a site where a guy said he would "kick the ____" out of anyone he caught packing a gun. " LOL. So what's he going to do when we shoot him in the foot? And is he going to try that with me, an extremely muscular woman athlete? LOL...yeah, right... these anti's can get pretty comical. But the sad part is, sometimes they actually mean what they say.
 
Another at a site where a guy said he would "kick the ____" out of anyone he caught packing a gun.
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Reee-hee-heeally???? Mmmm.... future Darwin Award recipient.

First hit's free... after that, you're no longer allowed to play in the gene pool.
 
Those that somehow believe that "My kung-fu is superior to your .357" has watched WAY too many movies. Hopefully, they will learn before they do something really stupid.
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As I've said to so many anti-gunners who've claimed that women don't need guns because they can ALWAYS defend themselves with the martial arts:

"Xena, Warrior Princess was NOT a documentary!"
 
I know it's tiring. It's taking a toll on me too. But remember we're fighting organizations, not just individual people. We're fighting organizations that promote lies, hysteria and fear to argue their points because they simply can't use accurate facts for that purpose.

Engage individuals as you can, but remember to support organizations like GOA, JPFO and maybe the NRA (if they don't sell us out completely) and contribute some of your efforts to volunteering there--write newspapers and local stations, check out grass roots efforts. It's not as exhausting as an argument with an anti.
 
i remember in one of the "responces to an anti" threads some one had this to say

Anti: why dont you go start your own gun loving country!
RKBA: We did, who let you in?
 
Keep it up, and keep your cool, present facts and data, do not call anyone names, no matter how idiotic they may be. You may not convince them, but for every 1 poster there are 10 lurkers looking for convincing arguments. Despite getting worn down myself, I have had some very encouraging PM's on other boards.

I am also encouraged by the visible reluctance of the Dems to touch this issue despite the horror of the VT shooting. This would normally be the perfect opportunity for the usual anti-gunners to bathe in the blood of the victims, and they haven't.

That is huge.
 
It is VERY frustrating to try to sway someone's opinion, but keep up the good work. :)
Some people won't listen to anything besides their own opinion and you won't change that.
But the more you try, the better chances are of maybe getting others to see thing from your point of view.
I've got friends and family that I've been working on for a few years now. I just keep doing it in little sessions.:p
 
As a liberal the "Police and military" should only have guns arguement has always astounded me.:

1. Most liberals (myself included) are against the patriot act. Yet they want the police to have the ultimate power of being the only ones with firearms.
(this is where I disagree with them, I am against gun control; eventually I won't have to say that, but being new to the board I don't want people to get the wrong idea :) )

2. Most liberals (myself included) are against the drug war. One of the main reasons being that it has only increased crime, yet they think banning guns will decrease it.:banghead:

I could go on but I'll save some for further note. Also, I wanted to point out other liberals telling me that I would be unwelcome in a board dealing w/guns (because alot of them think gun owners to be "rednecks" etc) and even though the majority of people here disagree with me on many issues I feel I have not at all been attacked personally and have only heard thoughtful arguements from the other side, not flames. I have feel I have yet to run across anyone who has taken my viewpoints personally; admittedly being a Democrat I had been convinced to the point of being nervous of joining a pro-gun community because of my stances on other issues, but now I have nothing but respect for everyone here; I feel my opinions have been treated respectfully by all.
 
welcome NM234

I hadn't seen you around before, but see you just joined the other week.

I could go on but I'll save some for further note. Also, I wanted to point out other liberals telling me that I would be unwelcome in a board dealing w/guns (because alot of them think gun owners to be "rednecks" etc) and even though the majority of people here disagree with me on many issues I feel I have not at all been attacked personally and have only heard thoughtful arguements from the other side, not flames. I have feel I have yet to run across anyone who has taken my viewpoints personally; admittedly being a Democrat I had been convinced to the point of being nervous of joining a pro-gun community because of my stances on other issues, but now I have nothing but respect for everyone here; I feel my opinions have been treated respectfully by all.
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As a Jim Webb-type populist Democrat, I am with you 100%. :)
 
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