The Customer Is Always Right?
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Wes Janson
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She was right, no one needs a DShK...
They should be using a Ma Deuce instead!
They should be using a Ma Deuce instead!
Many many years ago in my pre-ccw days, I was standing at the counter of our local shop and some middle aged guy comes in with a 12ga pump and blurts out "This is a stick up". Seconds later he stammered and sputtered very sheepishly, that he was only funnin' as he was staring down the barrel of the owner's 1911. It turned out that he really was "just funnin'" he actually thought that the owner would think it was funny.
RH
RH
FieroCDSP
Member
Hell is just a theory. The reality of retail is much, much worse.
I had three punks come in one evening looking at 22's. After a short Q&A session, they decided to buy one. I pulled out the 4473 and explained to fill it out and that I need his photo ID.
"You mean I need to fill out a form?"
"Er..yeah. Federal law requires a background check before the sale."
"But I don't have my ID on me." (this was said with a smirk towards his friends, BS sensors went to max)
"Well, I cannot sell a firearm without a photo ID."
Then his friend steps in.
"I'll fill it out." His friend(Mr No ID) hands him the money.
"I'm sorry, but I can't do that. That would be purchasing the gun for him and that's illegal...by Federal law."
"Even if I pay for it?"
"Yes."
"This is B-S. Lets go down to ###(other hunting store, shut down a year earlier for sales related BATFE infractions), they'll sell me one without paperwork."
"Have a nice day....Morons."
To be entirely honest, retail wouldn't be that bad if the pay was twice as much and with excellent benefits. The fact that I realized last year is this... I'm getting paid a relatively small amount of money, working my butt off, and dealing with people's bad breath.... just so I can think for them. I am acting as their brains, because for some unknown reason, they get left out in the car.
Kind of Blued
Member
I used to be a member at the range next door. I just moved and am having trouble finding an indoor range that nice. I miss it...
ColinthePilot
Member
I have a friend that works at a shop. This is the type that has to have the latest shiny piece he found in Guns & Ammo. He lives in MD so carry is impossible whenever hes not at the store, where he carries open, but he buys guns that are easily concealable anyway. He bought a HK and suppressor. with the stamp the whole rig ran about $1500 IIRC and he can't really do much with it.
We love countering his salesman side with common sense. Like a successful salesman, he tries to impress the customer with his knowledge then persuade them to buy something more expensive. He tries to use it on people that know what they're talking about and its like the Star Wars Jedi Mind Trick, but we're not weak minded fools.
My friend and his dad, a 30 year LEO, came in to buy some .357 Magnum ammo for his off-duty weapon. Sam suggests .38 Special because .357Mag is really powerful and might overpenetrate. Dad laughed in his face and said "Powerful is kinda why I bought a .357 Mag."
Thrown off a bit by this customer challenging his advice, he starts chatting about the .338 Lapua on the wall he's going to buy. LEO dad asks what he's going to shoot with that (thinking big game hunting). Sam replies "Just targets." Thats plinking at 5.50 per round, for those not wanting to do the math.
He's lucky that this shop is in a pretty wealthy part of town, but we aren't wealthy and we know more than his average customer.
We do shoot at the indoor range at the shop. 2 of us were plinking with some .22 rifles while a group of 4 guys is shooting a glock of some sort. Looked like 9mm or .40 from where i was. These guys were not well versed in anything involving guns. They showed up at the range, pistol loaded in the case (illegal in MD) with lead bullets and got lectured by the rangemaster. They pull up to the lane next to mine and can't figure out how to hang a target. we're talking paperclips here. Call the rangemaster over. He hangs their targets. the obviously least experienced asks "how many bullets i got left." the owner explains the slide locks back when its empty. 15 min later, they have a misfire. "Hey, man. I pulled the trigger but nothin came out." owner doesn't even look at it, just says "go get the guy." Rangemaster clears the gun for them and they keep shooting. We left. We got to the car and burst out laughing about everything we had just seen.
We love countering his salesman side with common sense. Like a successful salesman, he tries to impress the customer with his knowledge then persuade them to buy something more expensive. He tries to use it on people that know what they're talking about and its like the Star Wars Jedi Mind Trick, but we're not weak minded fools.
My friend and his dad, a 30 year LEO, came in to buy some .357 Magnum ammo for his off-duty weapon. Sam suggests .38 Special because .357Mag is really powerful and might overpenetrate. Dad laughed in his face and said "Powerful is kinda why I bought a .357 Mag."
Thrown off a bit by this customer challenging his advice, he starts chatting about the .338 Lapua on the wall he's going to buy. LEO dad asks what he's going to shoot with that (thinking big game hunting). Sam replies "Just targets." Thats plinking at 5.50 per round, for those not wanting to do the math.
He's lucky that this shop is in a pretty wealthy part of town, but we aren't wealthy and we know more than his average customer.
We do shoot at the indoor range at the shop. 2 of us were plinking with some .22 rifles while a group of 4 guys is shooting a glock of some sort. Looked like 9mm or .40 from where i was. These guys were not well versed in anything involving guns. They showed up at the range, pistol loaded in the case (illegal in MD) with lead bullets and got lectured by the rangemaster. They pull up to the lane next to mine and can't figure out how to hang a target. we're talking paperclips here. Call the rangemaster over. He hangs their targets. the obviously least experienced asks "how many bullets i got left." the owner explains the slide locks back when its empty. 15 min later, they have a misfire. "Hey, man. I pulled the trigger but nothin came out." owner doesn't even look at it, just says "go get the guy." Rangemaster clears the gun for them and they keep shooting. We left. We got to the car and burst out laughing about everything we had just seen.
Had a customer come in from the range, he asks if I could look at a rifle thats not firing. I was chambering a barrel at the time and told him I'd be right with him, he begins to tell me it was working fine but suddenly the firing pin stopped hitting the primmer. I told him that was strange and I'd get to him in just a moment. about then I hear CLICK "see it did it again", I turned around and he was pulling a loaded round from the chamber, he holds it up to me and says "see it barley hit the primmer", I just looked at him for a moment and then you could see the realization of what he had done come over his face, he just said sorry and left.
TimM
Member
Jan 2 of this year I came in late on this conversation at my local gun shop. I can only surmise that they must have been talking about firing guns into the air at midnight on New years.
Clerk: What?!
Customer: Yeah, that's right, shooting into the air ain't dangerous.
Clerk: You can kill somebody doing that. People die every year from crazies firing their weapon into the air.
Customer: Don't be stupid. Haven't you ever heard of terminal velocity.
Clerk: Yes, but that has nothing to do with this.
Customer: Let me explain how this works for ya all. When you fire a bullet up into the air it keeps gaining speed as it goes up. But when it starts to come down the wind resistance slows it down and by the time it its the ground it is probably only doing a few feet per second - not even enough to bruise you. That's terminal velocity!
Clerk:
So let me get this straight. As objects fall towards the ground they lose speed?
Customer: That is correct sir, now you know.
Clerk: Hmmmm....that explains why all those people just get up and walk out of an airplane after a crash.
Customer: You !$%#%s are just right down stupid!
Clerk: Well sir, we are just ordinary folks in here that happen to sell firearms and the like. We aren't rocket scientist.
Customer: That's F***** apparent! If you were you would know what terminal velocity is!
Customer walks out and the entire place laughs their heads off.
Clerk: What?!
Customer: Yeah, that's right, shooting into the air ain't dangerous.
Clerk: You can kill somebody doing that. People die every year from crazies firing their weapon into the air.
Customer: Don't be stupid. Haven't you ever heard of terminal velocity.
Clerk: Yes, but that has nothing to do with this.
Customer: Let me explain how this works for ya all. When you fire a bullet up into the air it keeps gaining speed as it goes up. But when it starts to come down the wind resistance slows it down and by the time it its the ground it is probably only doing a few feet per second - not even enough to bruise you. That's terminal velocity!
Clerk:
So let me get this straight. As objects fall towards the ground they lose speed?Customer: That is correct sir, now you know.
Clerk: Hmmmm....that explains why all those people just get up and walk out of an airplane after a crash.
Customer: You !$%#%s are just right down stupid!
Clerk: Well sir, we are just ordinary folks in here that happen to sell firearms and the like. We aren't rocket scientist.
Customer: That's F***** apparent! If you were you would know what terminal velocity is!
Customer walks out and the entire place laughs their heads off.
toivo
Member
OK, off-topic, but I once got into a big argument with a guy in an electronics store: They had a video camera on top of a big-screen TV, so you could stand there and watch yourself.
He says, "That's pretty cool, but it's kind of creepy the way it reverses everything."
I say, "What do you mean?"
He waves his right hand and watches his image on the TV. "See how the OTHER hand is moving?"
I say, "No, you're moving your right hand and your image on the TV is moving its right hand too."
He says, "No, but it's on the OTHER SIDE! It's not like a mirror! It reverses everything!
I say, "No, it's the opposite--mirrors reverse things, video cameras don't. If you were looking in a mirror, your image would be waving its LEFT hand. Turn your back to the camera and look over your shoulder. Then wave your right hand. You'll see what I mean."
He looks at me like I'm an idiot, and walks away muttering before I get a chance to ask him if he usually sees a lot of left-handed people when he watches TV. Or what he thinks of terminal velocity...
He says, "That's pretty cool, but it's kind of creepy the way it reverses everything."
I say, "What do you mean?"
He waves his right hand and watches his image on the TV. "See how the OTHER hand is moving?"
I say, "No, you're moving your right hand and your image on the TV is moving its right hand too."
He says, "No, but it's on the OTHER SIDE! It's not like a mirror! It reverses everything!
I say, "No, it's the opposite--mirrors reverse things, video cameras don't. If you were looking in a mirror, your image would be waving its LEFT hand. Turn your back to the camera and look over your shoulder. Then wave your right hand. You'll see what I mean."
He looks at me like I'm an idiot, and walks away muttering before I get a chance to ask him if he usually sees a lot of left-handed people when he watches TV. Or what he thinks of terminal velocity...
ColinthePilot
Member
Actually mythbusters tested the terminal velocity thing. They fired a 9mm and a 30.06 straight up and found the rounds after they landed, did some math and figured out that they really don't have enough speed when they land to kill someone. The idiot in the store didn't explain it right though.
As soon as a bullet leaves a barrel, it starts slowing down(check the numbers on your ammo. Velocity is much higher at the muzzle than at 50yds) straight up, that still applies. Eventually the bullet looses all speed, stops, and begins descending. at this point, it is accelerating at 9.8m/s or whatever gravity is. but without gunpowder behind it, it will only accelerate till the force of gravity equals the air resistance on the bullet. It comes out to a relatively low speed that cannot penetrate a human. The guy in the store was correct, but he didn't actually know why.
As soon as a bullet leaves a barrel, it starts slowing down(check the numbers on your ammo. Velocity is much higher at the muzzle than at 50yds) straight up, that still applies. Eventually the bullet looses all speed, stops, and begins descending. at this point, it is accelerating at 9.8m/s or whatever gravity is. but without gunpowder behind it, it will only accelerate till the force of gravity equals the air resistance on the bullet. It comes out to a relatively low speed that cannot penetrate a human. The guy in the store was correct, but he didn't actually know why.
dasmi
Member
ColinthePilot,
That only works if the bullet come straight down. If it's fired at any sort of angle, it'll stay ballistic, and can easily kill.
That only works if the bullet come straight down. If it's fired at any sort of angle, it'll stay ballistic, and can easily kill.
Actually, you need to watch the show again.
1. They never recovered any 30-06 bullets, if they had they would have discovered what Julian Hatcher did many decades ago. Even rifle bullets that come straight down can exceed the velocity required to penetrate the skull since they remain stabilized and fall base first. The only bullets that the Mythbusters recovered were pistol bullets. The pistol bullets tumbled which greatly reduced their terminal velocity.
2. They admitted on the show that there were confirmed deaths from descending bullets but that didn't prompt them to re-evaluate the results of their testing.
3. They didn't adequately research the topic or the science behind it before starting the experiments or they would have distinguished between the special case (firing exactly straight up) vs firing upwards but not perfectly vertical.
average_shooter
Member
The story changes when you factor in any kind of arc to the flight path.
I just finished reading all these stories. This has been quite entertaining. I will admit though, I think some of the stories recount situations where the customer was not arrogant and may have been very receptive to a little instruction. I realize there is not much you can do with pig-heads and know-it-alls. Sadly, some of the stories remind me of when I was younger and knew much less than I thought I did. In fact, to this day I remember clearly a specific incident that just makes me cringe. If I could go back in time I would kick my younger self in the nuts just prior to the incident so I would not have to remember it. I cannot believe how calm the gun shop employee was. He should have kicked my a**.
carlson1
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The Customer Is Always Right - is not longer in effect. I have had complete Hell On Earth with Smith and Wesson Customer Service Center since November. Still no answer and no pistol returned. I am know I am not much, but they have lost ONE CUSTOMER.
I am know I am not much, but they have lost ONE CUSTOMER.
redneck2
Member
I was talking with an employee of our shop right before I started there. He was leaving for another job. Asked he why he'd quit. Seemed like working in a gun shop would be a dream job. His reply was "I can't stand the stupid questions and comments". I didn't understand until I worked there a while.
Problem with working in a gun shop is that you're pretty much trapped behind the counter and guys with no life think you want to hear about it.
Most amazing to me were guys that would come in to buy a rifle and leave for a very expensive hunt the next day. We had one guy that was going to Africa and had never shot any of his rifles. Had someone else sight them in for him.
We did have a guy that shot (IIRC) 300 WM in a 7mm mag. Said it kicked awful hard and the bolt was hard to open..
Problem with working in a gun shop is that you're pretty much trapped behind the counter and guys with no life think you want to hear about it.
Most amazing to me were guys that would come in to buy a rifle and leave for a very expensive hunt the next day. We had one guy that was going to Africa and had never shot any of his rifles. Had someone else sight them in for him.
We did have a guy that shot (IIRC) 300 WM in a 7mm mag. Said it kicked awful hard and the bolt was hard to open..
Phil DeGraves
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"The fact that I realized last year is this... I'm getting paid a relatively small amount of money, working my butt off, and dealing with people's bad breath.... just so I can think for them."
Actually, I started working there because I was there every Friday night anyway looking at what came in during the week. I figured I might as well get paid for it. How can you hate getting paid for looking at guns, talking about guns and educating the non-gun newbies?
Actually, I started working there because I was there every Friday night anyway looking at what came in during the week. I figured I might as well get paid for it. How can you hate getting paid for looking at guns, talking about guns and educating the non-gun newbies?
Bailey Guns
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I had a customer ask for the "Magnum" pellets for his pellet rifle...he'd heard they had more stopping power on small animals like chipmunks.
And I always try to give the customer the benefit of the doubt. There's a big difference between just now knowing a lot about guns and thinking you know everything there is to know about guns.
About once a week some twenty-something comes in, looks at an FAL (or AK, SKS, etc) and tells his buddies it was just like the one he was issued in the army...or even better though not as common, "in the Nam."
I'm amazed at the number of people who need extra magazines or ammo for their gun and don't even know what type of gun it is.
And I always try to give the customer the benefit of the doubt. There's a big difference between just now knowing a lot about guns and thinking you know everything there is to know about guns.
About once a week some twenty-something comes in, looks at an FAL (or AK, SKS, etc) and tells his buddies it was just like the one he was issued in the army...or even better though not as common, "in the Nam."
I'm amazed at the number of people who need extra magazines or ammo for their gun and don't even know what type of gun it is.
ieszu
Member
My favorite happened when I was working at a range in PA.
A customer wanted a Makarov. So he passes the NICS, pays for it, and then pays to use the range.
5 minutes later...
Customer: My gun can't hit anything! It is broken!
Me: May I see it?
Customer: Sure.
Me: It seems fine, mind if I put a few rounds through it?
Customer: Yeah, but only if I can watch you shoot it.
Me: No problem.
So we go out to the range, I load 3 rounds into the gun and as I am about to pull the trigger, he stops me and tells me I am not shooting right.
Me: What do you mean?
Customer: You have to hold it like this (holds it sideways, "gangsta style").
Me: That is the wrong method of shooting... May I please show you how to hold it so you can hit what you are shooting at?
Customer: This is the way I was taught.... can you put some sights on the side so I can aim?
Me: You want me to WHAT???
Needless to say, My boss told me to drill and tap the gun for an old pair of sights we had laying around... And then he told me to remove the firing pin and tell the guy we have to shut down the range for maintenance (it was empty other than him)...
He never came back to shoot his gun, but his picture did appear on the local news with him trying to rob a liquor store and getting arrested....
Not sure the legality of the situation (with the removal of the firing-pin) but it was funny at the time.
A customer wanted a Makarov. So he passes the NICS, pays for it, and then pays to use the range.
5 minutes later...
Customer: My gun can't hit anything! It is broken!
Me: May I see it?
Customer: Sure.
Me: It seems fine, mind if I put a few rounds through it?
Customer: Yeah, but only if I can watch you shoot it.
Me: No problem.
So we go out to the range, I load 3 rounds into the gun and as I am about to pull the trigger, he stops me and tells me I am not shooting right.
Me: What do you mean?
Customer: You have to hold it like this (holds it sideways, "gangsta style").
Me: That is the wrong method of shooting... May I please show you how to hold it so you can hit what you are shooting at?
Customer: This is the way I was taught.... can you put some sights on the side so I can aim?
Me: You want me to WHAT???
Needless to say, My boss told me to drill and tap the gun for an old pair of sights we had laying around... And then he told me to remove the firing pin and tell the guy we have to shut down the range for maintenance (it was empty other than him)...
He never came back to shoot his gun, but his picture did appear on the local news with him trying to rob a liquor store and getting arrested....
Not sure the legality of the situation (with the removal of the firing-pin) but it was funny at the time.
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The Tourist
member
This is just the condition of working retail, it's not a problem.
I work with the public, and it's not a problem of being angry, it's a problem of not just laughing in their face. You could show an individual metallurgists' data or books on sharpening, but the only thing he might believe is watching Lynn Thompson bend the same knife in a vice.
I've come to the conclusion that by the time the customer comes to see you, he has already made up his mind. I might point out facts not apparent, but in the end I sell/service the item requested.
The downside of the issue is the time they steal when you cannot work with another client.
Again, I solve this by making sure they get what they want. If a knife fails, or is not as sharp as the one I serviced for his no-brother-good-inlaw, I simply remind him it was delivered as requested.
I can fix it, but repair costs are obviously a great deal more.
Like any other concern, a person who owns their own business has to maximize the profit he makes against the lowest amount of costs. If problematic clients (which is different than a client with a problem--that's customer service) are sucking up time and resources they are a drain on your facility.
I have "fired" chefs and their restaurants. If they delay payments, return damaged products, or demand service without scheduling, they are in fact hurting all of my responsible clients who play by the rules.
BTW, I treat waittresses, check out girls, service writers and dog groomers with heightened respect. You also have to be a good client in your personal life.
I work with the public, and it's not a problem of being angry, it's a problem of not just laughing in their face. You could show an individual metallurgists' data or books on sharpening, but the only thing he might believe is watching Lynn Thompson bend the same knife in a vice.
I've come to the conclusion that by the time the customer comes to see you, he has already made up his mind. I might point out facts not apparent, but in the end I sell/service the item requested.
The downside of the issue is the time they steal when you cannot work with another client.
Again, I solve this by making sure they get what they want. If a knife fails, or is not as sharp as the one I serviced for his no-brother-good-inlaw, I simply remind him it was delivered as requested.
I can fix it, but repair costs are obviously a great deal more.
Like any other concern, a person who owns their own business has to maximize the profit he makes against the lowest amount of costs. If problematic clients (which is different than a client with a problem--that's customer service) are sucking up time and resources they are a drain on your facility.
I have "fired" chefs and their restaurants. If they delay payments, return damaged products, or demand service without scheduling, they are in fact hurting all of my responsible clients who play by the rules.
BTW, I treat waittresses, check out girls, service writers and dog groomers with heightened respect. You also have to be a good client in your personal life.
On that episode, they said several times that shooting at an angle will cause the bullet to retain spin and trajectory. Their conclusion on the confirmed deaths, was that those shots were most likely not shot straight up, but at an angle. They also said that the myth is not about shooting a bullet at an angle, but shooting it straight up.
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